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Could a Basic Minimum Income for all Americans decrease abortions?

Could a Basic Minimum Income decrease the incidence of abortion being chosen?

  • Perhaps by 1 to 10 percent less than the current rate.

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • Perhaps by 11 to twenty percent less than the current rate.

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • Perhaps by twenty one to thirty percent less than the current rate.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I am thinking that a Basic Minimum Income could decrease abortions by more than thirty percent.

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • Total voters
    4

Francis Drake

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I am thinking that the answer to this question is an obvious yes.

One candidate is talking about one thousand dollars per month so an unmarried young woman who is pregnant if she is looking forward to receiving a thousand dollars per month herself and another thousand dollars for her baby, would tend to have much less fear for the future that would pressure her toward choosing abortion over Life.
Absolutely not. You clearly haven't thought this through, joined all the dots up!

The most likely result would be a massive increase in promiscuity and fatherless children.

For decades here in the UK, the one sure way a teenage girl could leave home and get her housing paid for was through having a baby. It became the norm that if they applied to the local authority to join the housing list, they would be told to go away and get pregnant.

Socialism, spreading other people's money around always has ungodly side effects. Giving money away to single mothers just creates state sponsored prostitution.
 
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Kaon

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I am thinking that the answer to this question is an obvious yes.

One candidate is talking about one thousand dollars per month so an unmarried young woman who is pregnant if she is looking forward to receiving a thousand dollars per month herself and another thousand dollars for her baby, would tend to have much less fear for the future that would pressure her toward choosing abortion over Life.

Are we sure livable income is the same, or tangent issue as abortion?

And, we may also be assuming people wouldn't go through with an abortion if they had a livable income. Abortion is high because it is accessible; morality is relative, so even well-to-do women will still choose abortion as an option for terminating pregnancy.
 
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JackRT

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Are money really the reason for abortions?

Poverty is an important factor but certainly not the only one. Another possible initiative would be to provide free prenatal, delivery and postnatal care for those below the poverty line. Ironically Planned Parenthood has a great deal of experience in providing just this sort of care.
 
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DennisTate

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Absolutely not. You clearly haven't thought this through, joined all the dots up!

The most likely result would be a massive increase in promiscuity and fatherless children.

For decades here in the UK, the one sure way a teenage girl could leave home and get her housing paid for was through having a baby. It became the norm that if they applied to the local authority to join the housing list, they would be told to go away and get pregnant.

Socialism, spreading other people's money around always has ungodly side effects. Giving money away to single mothers just creates state sponsored prostitution.


The idea was actually put forward by economist Milton Friedman to break people out of the modern welfare system that rewards errors and punishes efforts to rise up out of poverty.

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income

Last week, my colleague David Frum argued that conservative welfare reformers need to focus on simplification. As a young crop of conservative policymakers announce a range of proposals, there’s some movement in that direction. Florida Senator Marco Rubio’s plan would move most of America’s existing welfare funding into a single “flex-fund” to be disbursed to the states. Wisconsin Representative Paul Ryan, partly inspired by the “universal credit” reforms of Britain’s Conservative government, proposes allowing states to combine different forms of federal anti-poverty funding—food stamps, housing assistance, and more—into a single funding stream. In a recent speech about fighting poverty, Utah Senator Mike Lee told the Heritage Foundation, “There’s no reason the federal government should maintain 79 different means-tested programs.”

Meanwhile, the intellectual wing of reform conservatism likes these plans because they reduce government and offer citizens more control, at least in theory. Yuval Levin, one of the authors of the reform-conservatism manifesto Room to Grow, has praised Ryan’s plan, saying it would “give people more resources and authority and greater freedom to find new and more effective ways up from poverty.” Liberal wonks, on the other hand, have claimed it’s actually a paternalistic program at odds with the traditional Republican desire for less-intrusive government, since it relies on providers who make decisions for beneficiaries.

In any case, these ideas are circumscribed by traditional boundaries. Neither is a truly radical small-government idea alternative. But one idea that Frum highlighted is more radical: a guaranteed basic income, otherwise known as just giving people money.


The idea isn’t new. As Frum notes, Friederich Hayek endorsed it. In 1962, the libertarian economist Milton Friedman advocated a minimum guaranteed income via a “negative income tax.” In 1967, Martin Luther King Jr. said, “The solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed measure: the guaranteed income.” Richard Nixon unsuccessfully tried to pass a version of Friedman’s plan a few years later, and his Democratic opponent in the 1972 presidential election, George McGovern, also suggested a guaranteed annual income.

To my thinking the manner in which it is financed is the critical question.

BETTY'S EARLY EDITION: HOW PIERRE TRUDEAU TURNED US INTO DEBT SLAVES
 
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Francis Drake

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The idea was actually put forward by economist Milton Friedman to break people out of the modern welfare system that rewards errors and punishes efforts to rise up out of poverty.

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income



To my thinking the manner in which it is financed is the critical question.

BETTY'S EARLY EDITION: HOW PIERRE TRUDEAU TURNED US INTO DEBT SLAVES
It doesn't matter who puts it forward, on far too many levels it is totally immoral.
 
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hedrick

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It's not an area where there's great evidence. But people who have looked at the numbers think the most effective approach is to make contraception easily available, do good comprehensive sex education. provide good health care. Getting people out of poverty might well help, but I'm not clear that guaranteed minimum income is the best way to do that.

I'm sure you're aware that places where abortion is legal have lower abortion rates. I'm not convinced there's a causal link. My theory is that allowing abortion tends to be combined with the things listed above. But getting rid of Planned Parenthood manages to tick all the boxes, and will almost certainly raise the abortion rates.
 
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Jermayn

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I am thinking that the answer to this question is an obvious yes.

One candidate is talking about one thousand dollars per month so an unmarried young woman who is pregnant if she is looking forward to receiving a thousand dollars per month herself and another thousand dollars for her baby, would tend to have much less fear for the future that would pressure her toward choosing abortion over Life.
More money = more alcohol = more unwanted pregnancies = more abortions. Also people can say money is the reason they don't want to have a child, but I'm 99% the real reason is they don't want to be tied down and have the responsibility.
 
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lismore

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I am thinking that the answer to this question is an obvious yes.

I am thinking that the only thing that will stop evil like this abortion holocaust and usher in an age of righteousness will be the return of the Lord Jesus Christ to rule and reign.
 
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DennisTate

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More money = more alcohol = more unwanted pregnancies = more abortions. Also people can say money is the reason they don't want to have a child, but I'm 99% the real reason is they don't want to be tied down and have the responsibility.


You could be correct......
the final numbers on what percentage of Americans and / or Canadians might self destruct in several ways is something that I am in no position to be dogmatic on....... but I am much, much, much more optimistic than you are at this time.

I also believe that we are in the beginning of the greatest spiritual awakening since the time of Acts of the Apostles 2
....so I am biased in my perhaps excessive optimism.


2020 to 2030 is predicted to be a time of Awakening by God.
 
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DennisTate

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I am thinking that the only thing that will stop evil like this abortion holocaust and usher in an age of righteousness will be the return of the Lord Jesus Christ to rule and reign.

I basically agree with you but the raising up of the final Elijah could also improve the formula assuming the validity of the fascinating prediction of the Elijah To Do List in the Catholic Bible.


Douay-Rheims Bible, Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) Chapter 48

Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed. [7] Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance. [8] Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee. [9] Who wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses. [10] Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob.
 
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Jermayn

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You could be correct......
the final numbers on what percentage of Americans and / or Canadians might self destruct in several ways is something that I am in no position to be dogmatic on....... but I am much, much, much more optimistic than you are at this time.

I also believe that we are in the beginning of the greatest spiritual awakening since the time of Acts of the Apostles 2
....so I am biased in my perhaps excessive optimism.


2020 to 2030 is predicted to be a time of Awakening by God.

I'm optimistic for the church. I think the church is undergoing a great awakening, but it is in a rapid decline as far as membership goes here in America. So, for those of us who remain faithful, I think our eyes are being opened to the power of God. I'm sure there are some that legitimately get abortions because of financial issues, which is still no excuse, but I feel like most would still get an abortion because they would still rather spend the money on themselves than support a child with it, especially among non-believers. As far as the alcohol statement, I am pessimistic in that regard because the debauchery in America seems to know no bounds.
 
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DennisTate

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I'm optimistic for the church. I think the church is undergoing a great awakening, but it is in a rapid decline as far as membership goes here in America. So, for those of us who remain faithful, I think our eyes are being opened to the power of God. I'm sure there are some that legitimately get abortions because of financial issues, which is still no excuse, but I feel like most would still get an abortion because they would still rather spend the money on themselves than support a child with it, especially among non-believers. As far as the alcohol statement, I am pessimistic in that regard because the debauchery in America seems to know no bounds.


I've heard quite a bit about a Great Wealth Transfer from the Wicked to the Righteous..... and this could be an important part of the whole formula.

Economist Jim Rickards stated back in 2014 that there were seven hundred and ten trillion dollars in the worldwide Derivatives market. He expressed fear of a one hundred trillion dollar meltdown that could spread to other markets. This is one of the possible angles that could prevent or at least delay a Bear Market, another 1929?

The statistic of seven hundred and ten trillion is around the fifteen minute mark in this video:

FORGET IRAN, IRAQ, UKRAINE
THIS IS WHERE WWIII STARTS...



This is a related topic as well:


Do we Canadians owe America an apology for 1750 - 1783?
 
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DennisTate

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I came across a statistic today ---- the top 1% control more wealth than the poorest 6.9 billion people. There is a justice issue here.


Yes..... and the rate at which robots are making many jobs obsolete is another part of the formula as well.

I have read some very hopeful information that every word in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets will come to pass but.... the gospel must be preached in all nations first.


Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

(Howard Storm) :

The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.



The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.



And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.



There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.



What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.



People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.



Animals lived with people, in harmony.



People, in this best of all worlds, weren't interested in knowledge; they were interested in wisdom. This was because they were in a position where anything they needed to know, in the knowledge category, they could receive simply through prayer. Everything, to them, was solvable. They could do anything they wanted to do.



In this future, people had no wanderlust, because they could, spiritually, communicate with everyone else in the world. There was no need to go elsewhere. They were so engrossed with where they were and the people around them that they didn't have to go on vacation. Vacation from what? They were completely fulfilled and happy.
 
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AceHero

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I know the coming AI-robotics revolution is going to disrupt the employment market dramatically, probably beyond anything ever seen, but people need to work if they can if they're going to have dignity and self-respect. Put that amount of people on government handouts, and not only do you grow government to totalitarian dimensions, you suck the spirit out of the people.

Then fewer people on the planet is probably better, as there will be less competition for resources and jobs.

And, we may also be assuming people wouldn't go through with an abortion if they had a livable income. Abortion is high because it is accessible; morality is relative, so even well-to-do women will still choose abortion as an option for terminating pregnancy.

True. We also need to keep in mind that not all abortions start out as "unwanted" pregnancies—some women happily become pregnant and only have an abortion once it's discovered that a complication or serious birth defect will cause the eventual baby to have a miserable and short life, and/or it poses a serious health risk to the woman that could even lead to her own death.

I'm sure there are some that legitimately get abortions because of financial issues, which is still no excuse, but I feel like most would still get an abortion because they would still rather spend the money on themselves than support a child with it, especially among non-believers.

Why are finances not reason enough? Is it moral for a homeless woman to be forced to carry a pregnancy to term just for the sake of "supporting life"? What if that life isn't very good?
 
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Jermayn

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Then fewer people on the planet is probably better, as there will be less competition for resources and jobs.



True. We also need to keep in mind that not all abortions start out as "unwanted" pregnancies—some women happily become pregnant and only have an abortion once it's discovered that a complication or serious birth defect will cause the eventual baby to have a miserable and short life, and/or it poses a serious health risk to the woman that could even lead to her own death.



Why are finances not reason enough? Is it moral for a homeless woman to be forced to carry a pregnancy to term just for the sake of "supporting life"? What if that life isn't very good?

Is it for man to judge the worth of another man's life? Show me where in the Bible God put a monetary price on human life, and I'll show you where he actually gave his OWN life that we, even the lowliest of us, may live.
 
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AceHero

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Then fewer people on the planet is probably better, as there will be less competition for resources and jobs.



True. We also need to keep in mind that not all abortions start out as "unwanted" pregnancies—some women happily become pregnant and only have an abortion once it's discovered that a complication or serious birth defect will cause the eventual baby to have a miserable and short life, and/or it poses a serious health risk to the woman that could even lead to her own death.



Why are finances not reason enough? Is it moral for a homeless woman to be forced to carry a pregnancy to term just for the sake of "supporting life"? What if that life isn't very good?
Is it for man to judge the worth of another man's life? Show me where in the Bible God put a monetary price on human life, and I'll show you where he actually gave his OWN life that we, even the lowliest of us, may live.

I'm certainly not saying a poor person's life is not worth anything or that someone of lesser means can't have a fulfilling life. However, forcing a woman to give birth for the sake of birth itself does not put a very high value on human life, as the pro-life movement seems to be more concerned with quantity (preventing as many abortions as possible) than with quality (improving the lives of those who have been born, especially those in less than ideal circumstances).

I'd be more convinced if pro-life people were supportive of comprehensive access to contraception and paid maternity leave, but that seems to be a rarity. However, supporting those things would help to prevent abortions and would help those who did give birth.
 
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DennisTate

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I'm certainly not saying a poor person's life is not worth anything or that someone of lesser means can't have a fulfilling life. However, forcing a woman to give birth for the sake of birth itself does not put a very high value on human life, as the pro-life movement seems to be more concerned with quantity (preventing as many abortions as possible) than with quality (improving the lives of those who have been born, especially those in less than ideal circumstances).

I'd be more convinced if pro-life people were supportive of comprehensive access to contraception and paid maternity leave, but that seems to be a rarity. However, supporting those things would help to prevent abortions and would help those who did give birth.


You see that is the thing......
taken by itself the proposal in the opening posts is NOT FORCING a woman to have her baby......
it is simply decreasing the economic pressure on her to feel that she MUST abort her baby!!!!!
 
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DennisTate

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Five hundred dollars per Canadian per month, can this work?

I am advocating the usage of the Bank of Canada that is owned by all Canadians to finance giving five hundred dollars per month to all thirty seven million Canadians.

It will of course mean much more to poorer Canadians than to millionaires........
but it could be surprising how many stay at home wives with cheap and stingy millionaire husbands who control the purse strings of the home may find this extra five hundred very helpful indeed.

I suspect that well over eighty percent of of Canadians will spend this money reasonably well and:
1. enrol their kids in more after school programs.....
2. begin to purchase a higher percentage of organic produce vs the cheap GMO stuff
3. purchase a newer car, SUV or half ton truck
4. do renovations to their homes
5. hire landscapers to do certain projects on their properties
6. pay down their debt loads, especially the higher interest ones
7. buy a new home rather than renting
8. buy a cottage outside the city so that they can get away for weekends
9. many will choose to move to rural Canada in order to escape relatively hectic city life
10. eat at nice restaurants more often

11. I also believe that a significant percentage of Canadian women who would have chosen to have an abortion under the present economic situation will CHOOSE to keep their babies as opposed to having an abortion!

I suspect that less than ten percent of Canadians will attempt to live off this five hundred dollars / month and simply use it to drink or smoke more.
To whatever degree this happens the worst cases where these Canadians put themselves and others in danger this can be dealt with by issuing food stamps vs a monthly check.
 
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