Cosmology and YEC

[ocean]

There are many things about the universe that disprove YEC:

(1. The speed of light. If the universe is 6000 years old, then why can we see stars millions of light years away?

(2. Black holes. If the universe is only 6000 years old, stars would not collapse and black holes wouldn't exist.

(3. Star and planet formation. Stars and planets can't form in 6000 years.

There are many more examples, I will post them all when I have more time.

 

[lithium.]

Yes there is lots of things in the universe that disproves YEC, but YECist will say that since GOD is all powerful he could do whatever he wants. If he wanted the stars to be millions of light years away god could do it or if he wanted to make a black hole he could do it, and if he wanted to make a planet or star in 6000 years then god could do it.

So it really doesn't matter to YEC they only know that GOD DIDIT.

David.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by ocean
There are many things about the universe that disprove YEC:

(1. The speed of light. If the universe is 6000 years old, then why can we see stars millions of light years away?

"The speed of light has exponentially slowed down since the Creation"

(2. Black holes. If the universe is only 6000 years old, stars would not collapse and black holes wouldn't exist.

(3. Star and planet formation. Stars and planets can't form in 6000 years.

"God made the universe look old"

Those are the likely answers you'll get.

 

[Live!]

No, I won't give you either one of those answers. The answer lies in the

properties of light. I will go into detail later.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by Live!
No, I won't give you either one of those answers. The answer lies in the

properties of light. I will go into detail later.

No, please go into detail now. I'm curious as to how the properties of light could make galaxies appear millions of light years away.

 

[lithium.]

same here.

 

[ern]

Originally posted by ocean
There are many things about the universe that disprove YEC:

(1. The speed of light. If the universe is 6000 years old, then why can we see stars millions of light years away?

(2. Black holes. If the universe is only 6000 years old, stars would not collapse and black holes wouldn't exist.

(3. Star and planet formation. Stars and planets can't form in 6000 years.

There are many more examples, I will post them all when I have more time.

For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisble, whether thrones or powers, or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Colossians 1:16

1) God created light, not just things that would give off light, such as stars.

2) Lets do some simple reasoning. God created everything, black holes are things, therefore God created black holes.

3)Same as number 2, replace "black holes" with "stars", or with "planets"

 

[lithium.]

See told you hehe god did it. But thats ok if someone wants to believe that.

 

[IXOYE]

That is a lot more plausable than "there was a slight imperfection in a vast sea of nothingness called a singularity, and then it exploded and whala, the universe. Then the cosmic goo got eradiated by gamma rays from the sun and whala a single cell with all its complexities. Then that cell reproduced itself untill it became me punching away at my key board. So we are all the product of an imperfection in a vast sea of nothing.

You have much more faith then Theists.

IXOYE

 

[wb3]

He is good

 

[Chris H]

The problem with believing in a young earth is that no evidence supports a young age. So even if you were to explain light speed and black holes, you still would have the enormous wieght of geology to prove that our planet is old.

Chris

 

[PastorFreud]

There is no doubt that the earth is old by all modern means of understanding.  If God just created the world to look old, even though it is really young, why would God do that?  Does he get his jollies causing controversy?  Why slow down the speed of light, as one person suggested, to make the laws of physics work differently at one time in history than another?

A few things:

1.  Believing in the bible does not require belief in YEC.   Not all Christians are really messed up about this.  Some believe an old earth is easily accomodated by scripture, while some take the Bible as a book of faith and never even tried to make it a science textbook to begin with.

2.  Whatever theory of earth formation we use still has some explaining to do.  A good theory accounts for the majority of the data.  Current theories need to be (and are being in many places) expanded and modified to encompass more of the data.  It is possible that some processes happened on a more cataclysmic scale in our past than current theories allow.  Formations at the site of Mt. St. Helens, for example, formed in far less time than was orginally conceived (but not enough to make the earth young.)

3.  Trying to make data say things it doesn't say and trying to make the Bible say something it doesn't say leads to error in both respective fields.  Data is data.  It must be interpreted and interpretation is fallible even though the data may be solid.  Biblical truth is biblical truth.  It must be interpreted and interpretation is fallible, even though the biblical truth may be solid.

Who disagrees with me more?  The theologians or the scientists?

 

[PastorFreud]

You know, the more I think about it, I wouldn't want a god who says he made things one way, gave us abilities to recognize another, and commands me to trust the tradition of interpretation thoughout the ages as infallible, and mistrust the data that I can still verify myself. That would be a pretty crappy god. Fortunately, I haven't found one like that, though I've heard others talk of him.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by IXOYE
That is a lot more plausable than "there was a slight imperfection in a vast sea of nothingness called a singularity, and then it exploded and whala, the universe. Then the cosmic goo got eradiated by gamma rays from the sun and whala a single cell with all its complexities. Then that cell reproduced itself untill it became me punching away at my key board. So we are all the product of an imperfection in a vast sea of nothing.

You have much more faith then Theists.

Wow, quite the list of strawmen you've got there. You might want to look into the various theories explaining things like the origin of the universe, matter, planets, life, evolution, etc. While I'm not going to pretend those theories have all the answers (if anything, they raise more questions than answers), it's a wee bit more complicated than you seem to make it.

 

[IXOYE]

Originally posted by Pete Harcoff
Wow, quite the list of strawmen you've got there. You might want to look into the various theories explaining things like the origin of the universe, matter, planets, life, evolution, etc. While I'm not going to pretend those theories have all the answers (if anything, they raise more questions than answers), it's a wee bit more complicated than you seem to make it.

 

They are hardly strawmen, they are all arguments that i've gotten in the past. You can always give me an argument on what "really" happened. and then we can bat it around, are you game?

IXOYE

 

[Lacmeh]

Ixoye, do you use suncreme or sunblockers when going to the beach?
If yes, why do you do it? Since the sun rays aren´t that bad at all. Mutation is just a myth, therefore you don´t have to have fear getting skin cancer. And since mutation is a myth we don´t need to protect against any rays, that could cause them. The nuclear poewer plant owners would be real glaad to hear, that the huge security measures can be ignored. It´s just a waste of money.
And of course Fission and Fusion is just so absurd, it can´t be true. Because that would explain the forming of the lements out of Hydrogen and Helium. All things considered, nuclear power plants, Fusion and Fission bombs aren´t possible, the existing ones are in reality not working. It´s all a conspiracy.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by IXOYE
They are hardly strawmen, they are all arguments that i've gotten in the past. You can always give me an argument on what "really" happened. and then we can bat it around, are you game?

Do you know what a "strawman" means?

Incidently, trying to explain what "really" happened is not only beyond the scope of the forum, it's beyond a lot of human understanding.

That said, did you ever stop and think why things like the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory came about?

 

[IXOYE]

Originally posted by Lacmeh
Ixoye, do you use suncreme or sunblockers when going to the beach?
If yes, why do you do it? Since the sun rays aren´t that bad at all. Mutation is just a myth, therefore you don´t have to have fear getting skin cancer. And since mutation is a myth we don´t need to protect against any rays, that could cause them. The nuclear poewer plant owners would be real glaad to hear, that the huge security measures can be ignored. It´s just a waste of money.
And of course Fission and Fusion is just so absurd, it can´t be true. Because that would explain the forming of the lements out of Hydrogen and Helium. All things considered, nuclear power plants, Fusion and Fission bombs aren´t possible, the existing ones are in reality not working. It´s all a conspiracy.

 

I don't believe that mutations are what I was speaking against, but since you brought it up. Mutations by their very nature are almost always hamful to the creature. But in the scheme of evolution, well it's always for the better. It makes no sense, why statisticly would we be via mutations intrinsicly harmed yet on the move up at the same time? Plus, mutations leading to conscience out of not consciencness is contrary to the 2 law and logic.

IXOYE

 

[IXOYE]

Originally posted by Pete Harcoff
Do you know what a "strawman" means?

Incidently, trying to explain what "really" happened is not only beyond the scope of the forum, it's beyond a lot of human understanding.

That said, did you ever stop and think why things like the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory came about?

 

Um, What made you think I don't know what a strawman is? I didn't set up an invalid argument for you guys and then knock it down, they were arguments that I have recieved before, if they were invalid then take it up with your misinformed people spouting it. As to what really happened, Genesis 1:1. As to why evolution came about, rebellion against God. The big bang is theistic in a sense, because if there is a big bag there must have been a big bangger right? Ever effect has a cause, that cause is God.

 

IXOYE

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by IXOYE
 

Um, What made you think I don't know what a strawman is? I didn't set up an invalid argument for you guys and then knock it down, they were arguments that I have recieved before, if they were invalid then take it up with your misinformed people spouting it.

Well, I would have to say they were misinformed if they told you a quantum singularity is a "vast sea of nothingness". Also, we don't really have a "people". Lots of people believe in the Big Bang theory, evolution, etc, including many, many Christians.

As to why evolution came about, rebellion against God.

Rebellion against God?? If you truly believe that, I suggest a history lesson (and a science lesson), post-haste!

The big bang is theistic in a sense, because if there is a big bag there must have been a big bangger right? Ever effect has a cause, that cause is God.

Or some natural force we don't know about yet...
Or some supernatural force (possibly God)...

"We don't know" does not equal "God did it".