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Coronavirus is not a "sign" of the ends times, not technically

parousia70

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Talk in 10 years.
No problem! I'll be here :)
I've been on CF for 18 years now, offering correcting and reproof for hundreds of people such as yourself, who have been just as sure as yourself, by telling me "just you wait 5 years" or "wait 10 years, you'll see" one thing folks like you have in common with their predictions for the future is a 100% failure rate.

Your predictions are no different. Like all your predecessors, your predictions will also fail to materialize.
Whereas mine have all come to pass.
 
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George Antonios

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No problem! I'll be here :)
I've been on CF for 18 years now, offering correcting and reproof for hundreds of people such as yourself, who have been just as sure as yourself, by telling me "just you wait 5 years" or "wait 10 years, you'll see" one thing folks like you have in common with their predictions for the future is a 100% failure rate.

Your predictions are no different. Like all your predecessors, your predictions will also fail to materialize.
Whereas mine have all come to pass.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Right on the money Paul was.
 
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Timtofly

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The sun being turned to darkness might signify total solar eclipses. Blood red moons were the result of total lunar eclipses. Wonders in the heavens and on earth happened. A volcanic eruption produced pillars of smoke and of fire.

You do not believe the baptism of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost was God pouring out his spirit on all flesh. For all flesh to receive the Holy Spirit might require the destruction of this world and the creation of a new heaven and earth.
It was not on all flesh. It was on a limited few, and that day. The Spirit has been at work since Adam disobeyed God. The Holy Spirit is sent to the believer to be a guide and reprove them of sin. All humans are sealed because the Spirit of God is constantly drawing all men to God, but the majority of humanity rejects God and His Spirit. The process to full glorification is a step towards God and away from one's self. Once a person dies, there is no more choice to accept God. One is either redeemed at death or not redeemed. The Cross was the day of Redemption. Physically, death is each human passing through the Cross or passing through their own righteousness. That is the end and day of redemption personally. There is no more day of redemption after death.
 
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Timtofly

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What a sad, pessimistic view that renders the Jesus and His Church impotent and powerless in the age of the everlasting Gospel where righteousness dwells, which Jesus Himself ushered into existence.

Contrary to the sad, sorry defeatism of premillennialists, scripture teaches us
we are to subdue kingdoms and establish righteousness as the Hebrews 11 heroes did:

Hebrews 11:6, 32-33
for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him...for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions

The Christian Church walks in this great heritage of unstoppable faith just like our Hebrews 11 brothers and sisters. We are in process of subduing kingdoms, establishing righteousness, and asserting Christ's dominion over all nations through the same faith of David, Samuel, Joshua, and Moses had.
Nothing can stop us (Matthew 16:18-19).

2 Corinthians 5:18-20
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as God did beseech you by us

So we can see that at this time God is reconciling all the world unto himself.

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them [past tense]: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 2:13
ye have overcome the wicked one.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith


Compared to the state of the planet 2000 years ago, there is no question that both the moral sense and the covenantal reality of nations have been radically changed for the better by Christ and the Church. Here's a great quote from David Chilton about the progress of Christendom:

"Examples could be multiplied in every field. The whole rise of Western Civilization - science and technology, medicine, the arts, constitutionalism, the jury system, free enterprise, literacy, increasing productivity, a rising standard of living, the high status of women - is attributable to one major fact: the West has been transformed by Christianity. True, the transformation is not yet complete. There are many battles ahead. But the point is that, even in what is still largely an early Christian civilization, God has showered us with blessings." - David Chilton

Just look at how Christian post- and a-millennialists built this great country!

And, sadly, just look at how Christian pre-millennialists abandoned this country. Since the mid-1800s, C.I. Scofield and DL Moody and Hal Lindsey (and even you here George) have been teaching a message that America is doomed "according to the bible." They even taught that voting and participation in civil duties were pointless. Such "prophetic inevitibility" and doomsaying doesn't create kingdom-buliders like Moses or Paul or George Washington--it creates only visionless do-nothing Christians. Only kingdom-advancing views such as preterism, postmillennialism, and certain ranks of amillennialism will be able to save our country and empower Christians to build newer and more godly ones for the future. America wasn't built by dispensationalists, but it sure has been hurt by them. Their theology of defeat must be resisted and trumped by the victorious truth about Christ and the kingdom.

None of this speaks kindly for the cowardice, abandonment, and dereliction of duty dispensational pre-millennialists have taught to our country and the Church. Endtimes madness--like that which paralyzes most pre millennialists and prevents them from experiencing the victory of our faith--must be ended if America is to return to her great heritage. The heathens aren't supermen, they're just plain old pagans who believe there is a future, and that the future belongs to anyone with the courage to fight for it.

The constant fearful statements and despair that pre milennialists express about the world and their daily lives shows us that their doctrine that fuels such a "defeat mentality" is not based on FAITH, HOPE, and LOVE. Compare Joshua to the other spies who were afraid and gave a bad report about the land. That story is like post millennialists and and pre millennialists today. Pre Mil's are the spies who always fearfully say "there are giants in the land!" Post and A-Millennialists are the JOSHUAS who say "THE LAND IS OURS! LET'S TAKE IT. God has given the land to US!"

We must not be fooled by the cowardly Christians that say "b-b-but...there are giants in the land!
The pre-mill did not abandon America. America forgot God and turned to their own selfish rights. Post mill says the earth will become desolate and uninhabitable. A-mill claims the kingdom of heaven is becoming a physical kingdom more each day. That is what Constantine offered the early church. A government and rule over earthly sinners. Neither interpretations of the Second Coming are correct.
 
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dqhall

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It was not on all flesh. It was on a limited few, and that day. The Spirit has been at work since Adam disobeyed God. The Holy Spirit is sent to the believer to be a guide and reprove them of sin. All humans are sealed because the Spirit of God is constantly drawing all men to God, but the majority of humanity rejects God and His Spirit. The process to full glorification is a step towards God and away from one's self. Once a person dies, there is no more choice to accept God. One is either redeemed at death or not redeemed. The Cross was the day of Redemption. Physically, death is each human passing through the Cross or passing through their own righteousness. That is the end and day of redemption personally. There is no more day of redemption after death.
Do you think the Holy Spirit will not be poured out on all flesh? Some drank from the wells of salvation, others preferred polluted streams.
 
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Bob Carabbio

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I know this isn't sensational but who cares, right? We're to teach the truth, clicks or not.
The video makes the argument that the signs listed of Christ in Matthew 24 / Mark 13 / Luke 21, all fall within the context of the tribulation, not the church age, including his reference to an increase in earthquakes and pestilences.
Is the virus pointing to more trouble ahead? Quite possibly yes, but church age "signs" are the Braxton-Hicks contractions of the spiritual world - they're not the real deal signs, but they do foreshadow them.
May this also comfort your souls.


The public "Herd" tends to see its immediate environment as being universal in nature, and do a "Chicken Little" at every bump in their road. I'm sure the eschatologists were saying the same things about the Spanish Flu, Tuberculosis, the Smallpox epidemic, and the Black Plague.

Napoleon was touted as the "Anticrist", and so was Hitler, and of course the Pope. I have friends that think that Obama IS the antichrist -

SO much for Eschatology -
 
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George Antonios

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The public "Herd" tends to see its immediate environment as being universal in nature, and do a "Chicken Little" at every bump in their road. I'm sure the eschatologists were saying the same things about the Spanish Flu, Tuberculosis, the Smallpox epidemic, and the Black Plague.
Agreed on the analysis, although we must be careful not to judge them in pride.
 
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BobRyan

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I know this isn't sensational but who cares, right? We're to teach the truth, clicks or not.
The video makes the argument that the signs listed of Christ in Matthew 24 / Mark 13 / Luke 21, all fall within the context of the tribulation, not the church age,

Well that is not true according to Matthew 24

Matt 24
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us,
1. when will these things happen,
2. and what will be the sign of Your coming,
3. and of the end of the age?”

Jesus gave the signs regarding the 70 AD destruction of the temple
And he gave the signs that will appear leading up to the 2nd coming
And he gave the signs of the end of the age.

So starting with 60 A.D. and going all the way through to the second coming.

  • 4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
  • 9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

yep - all that has happened and continues to happen.
'Merely the beginning of birth pangs' - getting more severe as time goes on.
 
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Timtofly

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Do you think the Holy Spirit will not be poured out on all flesh? Some drank from the wells of salvation, others preferred polluted streams.
Not any more than those willing to open up and receive this outpouring. Who says the fountain ever stopped? I am not one who thinks the Holy Spirit only seals the elect. All humans are born sealed, but not sanctified. They have to use the fountain for it to actually work in their lives.
 
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George Antonios

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Well that is not true according to Matthew 24

Matt 24
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us,
1. when will these things happen,
2. and what will be the sign of Your coming,
3. and of the end of the age?”

Jesus gave the signs regarding the 70 AD destruction of the temple
And he gave the signs that will appear leading up to the 2nd coming
And he gave the signs of the end of the age.

So starting with 60 A.D. and going all the way through to the second coming.

  • 4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
  • 9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

yep - all that has happened and continues to happen.
'Merely the beginning of birth pangs' - getting more severe as time goes on.

The church age was a mystery at this point.
Have you ever compared the signs of Matthew 24 with the seals of Revelation 6? They all match.
 
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BobRyan

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The church age was a mystery at this point.
Have you ever compared the signs of Matthew 24 with the seals of Revelation 6? They all match.


The Bible was written for Christians in all ages and in fact at the time Matthew 24 was written the Christian age was fully in place. Christ new about it as well.
 
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George Antonios

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The Bible was written for Christians in all ages

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that NOT unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

The target audience is not always all believers

 
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