Convincing a non christian? Is it worth it?

[Alpine]

Is there any point to convincing a non Christian that he's wrong about a philosophy? Today my friend and I had a little disagreement about The Secret. he totally buys into it, and he said he practices it everyday. I told him how offended I was when I was subjected to watching it in a class about 4 months ago.

I told him, the secret is all about me and materialism. It's all about the universe, whatever that is.

Christianity is about loving God and others.

Anyway, we disagreed, but it got me to wondering, what's the worth of being so opinionated about this, if he isn't a Christian? What does it matter what he believes if he isn't even a Christian?

 

[Yekcidmij]

Is there any point to convincing a non Christian that he's wrong about a philosophy? Today my friend and I had a little disagreement about The Secret. he totally buys into it, and he said he practices it everyday. I told him how offended I was when I was subjected to watching it in a class about 4 months ago.

Sure there's a point. In your case, have good reasons for your view and present it, that's all you can do. No need to mow him down or get in a verbal shouting match or verbal carpet bombing contest. Show your side, have good reasons, and you've done your job.

I told him, the secret is all about me and materialism. It's all about the universe, whatever that is.

There are some really good logical/philosophical problems with the views in "the Secret".

Christianity is about loving God and others.

Yep. I argue all the time and probably to no avail other than maybe to make people think and to plant some seeds for someone else to water, so I think that living a Christian lifestyle is the best witness.

Anyway, we disagreed, but it got me to wondering, what's the worth of being so opinionated about this, if he isn't a Christian?

Becuase you have the truth. Stick by your guns, but don't be obnoxious.

What does it matter what he believes if he isn't even a Christian?

Becasue his eternal destiny is at stake.

Remember Pauls words in Romans 1:
1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people39 who suppress the truth by their40 unrighteousness,411:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them,42 because God has made it plain to them. 1:20 For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people43 are without excuse. 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts44 were darkened. 1:22 Although they claimed45 to be wise, they became fools 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image resembling mortal human beings46 or birds or four-footed animals47 or reptiles.
1:24 Therefore God gave them over48 in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor49 their bodies among themselves.501:25 They51 exchanged the truth of God for a lie52 and worshiped and served the creation53 rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
1:26 For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged the natural sexual relations for unnatural ones,541:27 and likewise the men also abandoned natural relations with women55 and were inflamed in their passions56 for one another. Men57 committed shameless acts with men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God,58 God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done.591:29 They are filled60 with every kind of unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, malice. They are rife with61 envy, murder, strife, deceit, hostility. They are gossips, 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, contrivers of all sorts of evil, disobedient to parents, 1:31 senseless, covenant-breakers,62 heartless, ruthless. 1:32 Although they fully know63 God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die,64 they not only do them but also approve of those who practice them.65

People will always knowingly supress truth and there is nothing we can do to make them believe. Just present your side lovingly, with good reasons, and live as a Christian should...IMO.



On another point I read a little on the Secret and it's plainly silly. There are some major problems with it that cause that view to crumble, I think.

 

[Jeffwo]

We have to 'live out our faith' (Christianity) as a witness to them and when the Holy Spirit makes an opportunity, we should share the gospel of Jesus Christ with them:

Rm. 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;

 

[LeadWorship]

Anyway, we disagreed, but it got me to wondering, what's the worth of being so opinionated about this, if he isn't a Christian? What does it matter what he believes if he isn't even a Christian?

The fact is that God sees him as "good soil". You are planting seeds. Heck, you are probably watering seeds that were planted by somebody else! It's of the utmost import to discuss things like this (if you choose to) without getting upset, frustrated, and hard hearted. This will show the person what you have is genuine, hopefully, and perhaps one day he'll look back and think, "Ya know, Alpine was onto something there...".

 

[WarEagle]

Is there any point to convincing a non Christian that he's wrong about a philosophy? Today my friend and I had a little disagreement about The Secret. he totally buys into it, and he said he practices it everyday. I told him how offended I was when I was subjected to watching it in a class about 4 months ago.

I told him, the secret is all about me and materialism. It's all about the universe, whatever that is.

Christianity is about loving God and others.

Anyway, we disagreed, but it got me to wondering, what's the worth of being so opinionated about this, if he isn't a Christian? What does it matter what he believes if he isn't even a Christian?

When I was first learning how to preach, the best advice I ever got was "just keep it close to the cross, son".

That's what I would do. Don't worry about convincing him that his philosphy is wrong. Just present him with the Gospel and explain to him what the Bible says about his philosophy.

Like all sinners, he doesn't need convincing, he needs convicting. You just be faithful in presenting God's word to him and the Holy Spirit will convict him in His own perfect timing.

 

[SharonL]

My best friend and I have many areas where we disagree - we always discuss them, but just state that we agree to disagree. She thinks I have some weird beliefs and I think she has some weird beliefs - but we are both Christians and do not get into heated arguements.

The problem we have with discussing our beliefs is that she truly believes she hears more clearly from God than I do - and maybe she does - but we don't really change each others beliefs - but we do discuss it.

 

[JimB]

see post below

​

 

[JimB]

Is there any point to convincing a non Christian that he's wrong about a philosophy? Today my friend and I had a little disagreement about The Secret. he totally buys into it, and he said he practices it everyday. I told him how offended I was when I was subjected to watching it in a class about 4 months ago.

I told him, the secret is all about me and materialism. It's all about the universe, whatever that is.

Christianity is about loving God and others.

Anyway, we disagreed, but it got me to wondering, what's the worth of being so opinionated about this, if he isn't a Christian? What does it matter what he believes if he isn't even a Christian?

Put yourself in his shoes. If he told you he was “offended” by some of the things you value—Jesus, church, the Bible, etc.—how would you react? Wouldn’t you be offended yourself? Wouldn’t you become defensive and perhaps think that he was looking down on you, not respecting who you are and what you believe? Wouldn’t you be tempted to reject anything else he had to say to you? Wouldn’t you begin to dislike him?

That’s how prebelievers feel when we reject the things they value. Are they wrong to value invaluable things? Of course. But we forget that “the god of this age has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them” (2 Cor. 4.4). We do not blame a blind person for his blindness and we do not wrestle against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in heavenly place.

Your friend, no matter what he believes, is not your enemy—he is your mission.

It is better to give the light of truth to blind people (Matt. 5.14-16) than to just tell them where they might find it—or be angry at them because they have not found it.

\o/

The world is composed of givers and takers.

The takers may eat better, but the givers sleep better.​

 

[jream]

What does it matter what he believes if he isn't even a Christian?

It matters to him, but his will be done, it will be burned up at the White Throne Judgement. So it doesn't matter in the end, only hopefully what he believes now will somehow wreck his life and need Jesus or something like that.

Just my opnion

 

[AFinChrist]

Show by your lifestyle, expressing Jesus's love, and PRAY that he would ask questions so that you would be able to witness.

If it turns into an arguement, then walk away. I try to remember its the Holy Spirit doing all the work. We just obey and move as we are led.

 

[JEBrady]

Is there any point to convincing a non Christian that he's wrong about a philosophy? Today my friend and I had a little disagreement about The Secret. he totally buys into it, and he said he practices it everyday. I told him how offended I was when I was subjected to watching it in a class about 4 months ago.

I told him, the secret is all about me and materialism. It's all about the universe, whatever that is.

Christianity is about loving God and others.

Anyway, we disagreed, but it got me to wondering, what's the worth of being so opinionated about this, if he isn't a Christian? What does it matter what he believes if he isn't even a Christian?

What's The Secret?

 

[Alpine]

What's The Secret?

I'll crunch what The Secret is into a one paragraph nugget.

It's a book written by an Aussie woman, and it has become super popular after being recomended by Oprah. There was a DVD also made based on the book. Basically, the centerpiece of The Secret is The law of attraction. That is, how we think impacts what we receive and experience. So, through the DVD, there were scenarios of people sleeping with a paper under their pillow with a million dollar amount written on it. One day, that person achieved it. Or, a gay guy was tired of being ridiculed by coworkers. He stopped allowing himself to feel bad about it, and within a short amount of time they were all fired. Time after time, the speakers talk about The universe giving to people, not God. The most shocking part for me was:

" You are God in a physical body, You are spirit in the flesh. You are Eternal Life expressing itself as You. You are a cosmic being. You are all power. You are all wisdom. You are all intelligence. You are perfection. You are magnificence. You are the creator, and you are creating the creation of You on this planet."

​

 

[Alpine]

Thanks for the advice. Very good stuff to chew on. I would like to respond to Jims post.

Put yourself in his shoes. If he told you he was “offended” by some of the things you value—Jesus, church, the Bible, etc.—how would you react? Wouldn’t you be offended yourself? Wouldn’t you become defensive and perhaps think that he was looking down on you, not respecting who you are and what you believe? Wouldn’t you be tempted to reject anything else he had to say to you? Wouldn’t you begin to dislike him?

That’s how prebelievers feel when we reject the things they value.

Jim, you made me think. If I were in his shoes, I probably would become very defensive about what I believe if someone countered my opinion. On the other hand, am I to never say anything? I have a very strong opinion about The secret, and it trips my trigger when I see people fall for it. I actually didn't know he believed in it at all until I talked to him, after seeing his name on Google talk that said (The law of attraction is true.) He knows I'm a Christian, and we've known each other for 10 years. He's always respected my faith, and I've never pushed it down his mouth. This might be the strongest reaction I've ever had with something he's said.

The only thing that I'm wondering, as the point of this thread, does it really matter how wrong The secret is, if he doesn't even believe? I show him the truth all I want, but in the end he will make his own choices. I might be wasting my breath going off on The secret. (especially if he somehow attains a million dollars because of The secret and he doesn't share with his 'ol buddy)

 

[Yekcidmij]

If I were in his shoes, I probably would become very defensive about what I believe if someone countered my opinion.

I think that any time our deepest beliefs are challenged, our first response is defense.

The only thing that I'm wondering, as the point of this thread, does it really matter how wrong The secret is, if he doesn't even believe? I show him the truth all I want, but in the end he will make his own choices.

This is a good summary of the human problem. The Bible agrees with you in so many places. People knowingly supress truth and follow their own desires.

 

[JEBrady]

I'll crunch what The Secret is into a one paragraph nugget.

It's a book written by an Aussie woman, and it has become super popular after being recomended by Oprah. There was a DVD also made based on the book. Basically, the centerpiece of The Secret is The law of attraction. That is, how we think impacts what we receive and experience. So, through the DVD, there were scenarios of people sleeping with a paper under their pillow with a million dollar amount written on it. One day, that person achieved it. Or, a gay guy was tired of being ridiculed by coworkers. He stopped allowing himself to feel bad about it, and within a short amount of time they were all fired. Time after time, the speakers talk about The universe giving to people, not God. The most shocking part for me was:

" You are God in a physical body, You are spirit in the flesh. You are Eternal Life expressing itself as You. You are a cosmic being. You are all power. You are all wisdom. You are all intelligence. You are perfection. You are magnificence. You are the creator, and you are creating the creation of You on this planet."​

Thanks, I had no clue. I live under a rock... well, I live on a rock, but I still don't get out much.

 

[ANM29]

Our job is give them the Gospel, it is the Holy Spirit's job to lead them into all truth eventually..

 

[lilmissmontana]

Good stuff on this thread!

JE: Add me under a rock and we've got a pile started. lol! I had no idea, either.

and ANM29, you said pretty much what I was going to say. Here's my version:

It's our job to plant the seeds. Only God can change the hearts. And don't overtend your gardens.

 

[churchlady]

Is there any point to convincing a non Christian that he's wrong about a philosophy? The Secret

The most shocking part for me was:

" You are God in a physical body, You are spirit in the flesh. You are Eternal Life expressing itself as You. You are a cosmic being. You are all power. You are all wisdom. You are all intelligence. You are perfection. You are magnificence. You are the creator, and you are creating the creation of You on this planet."​

​

Yes, I think there definitely is a point in trying to show your friend the error in that philosophy.

And this last part that you posted of their teachings is a perfect place to start.

If he has any knowledge of the Bible at all, remind him of the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis where the Devil comes to tempt them by telling them that God doesn't want them to eat of the one forbidden tree because He knows that when they do, they will be as Gods.

This philosophy is just that same temptation wrapped in modern clothes. It's the exact same lie (just practice the 'secret' and you will be as Gods).

That's a starting place!
​

 

[WarEagle]

"You are God in a physical body, You are spirit in the flesh. You are Eternal Life expressing itself as You. You are a cosmic being. You are all power. You are all wisdom. You are all intelligence. You are perfection. You are magnificence. You are the creator, and you are creating the creation of You on this planet."

Sounds like something Kenneth Copeland would say.

 

[HephzibahBenJudah]

Is there any point to convincing a non Christian that he's wrong about a philosophy? Today my friend and I had a little disagreement about The Secret. he totally buys into it, and he said he practices it everyday. I told him how offended I was when I was subjected to watching it in a class about 4 months ago.

I told him, the secret is all about me and materialism. It's all about the universe, whatever that is.

Christianity is about loving God and others.

Anyway, we disagreed, but it got me to wondering, what's the worth of being so opinionated about this, if he isn't a Christian? What does it matter what he believes if he isn't even a Christian?

You win them with quiet conversations of your actions...Actions speak louder than words...and if the Holy Spirit is gonna move in this individuals life...They need to "see" the salvation of the Lord in your life to cause them to fear...be in awe..."to get it."