Convince me of Continuationism.

Word and Spirit · Jul 13, 2020

chevyontheriver said:
Sorry. Never heard of 'continuationism'. What is it?

Cessationism is the gifts of the Spirit ceased when the Bible was finished being written.

Continuationism (spelling???) is the gifts never ceased, but have continued.

Word and Spirit · Jul 13, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I am on the fence between Cessationism and Continuationism.
While I lean more towards Cessationism, I do consider the possibility that Continuationism could be true. My biblical case for Cessationism can be found here:

Cessationism: Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased.

Can you rebuttal the points I made in this thread?
Can you also make a good case for Continuationism?

Ask yourself, during the span of the Old Covenant, the ministry of death, from Mt. Sinai to the Day of Pentecost (same anniversary) when the New Covenant started, what changed during the old covenant?

Matthew 5:18
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

The same is true of the New Covenant, the ministry of the Spirit. Nothing of the Spirit will change until we see God face to face. 1 Corinthians 13:12. That includes the gifts of the Spirit.

Jesus, the I AM, started the Old Covenant, and only He could end it, and start the new one. And only His second coming will end the New Covenant. And the covenant will stay in tact from beginning to end with nothing ceasing.

Cessationism is wishful thinking of those without the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Just like everything spiritual, the gifts are given according to your faith. Those with unbelief or disdain, will never receive anything from the Lord to their shame. I remember one Cessationist preacher write in a book against tongues, that if the gifts of the Spirit were available today, then he would most certainly have been given them. Such humility.

Regarding the laws of each covenant. They are similar as they are both based on the eternal laws of God, (love God with all your heart, mind and body, and love your neighbor as yourself), but the signs of a covenant cease when the covenant ceases. The Sabbath was the sign of the Old Covenant, and it ceased as Jesus is its substance, our Rest. And the sign of the New Covenant is the Cup, representing the blood of the covenant. 1 Corinthians 11:25.

Carl Emerson · Jul 13, 2020

Radagast said...
A few weeks ago.

Excellent - Pray tell...

Melody Suttles · Jul 13, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I am on the fence between Cessationism and Continuationism.
While I lean more towards Cessationism, I do consider the possibility that Continuationism could be true. My biblical case for Cessationism can be found here:

Cessationism: Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased.

Can you rebuttal the points I made in this thread?
Can you also make a good case for Continuationism?

Spiritual Gifts
1 Corinthians 12:1, 4-11
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed.
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

1 Corinthians 14:1-40
Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.

1 Corinthians 14:22
Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

Radagast · Jul 13, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
When did you last pray for someone and see them healed?

When did you last raise somebody from the dead (Acts of the Apostles 9:40)?

When did you last speak in a foreign language that you had not learned (Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11)?

When did you last accurately predict a major world event (Acts of the Apostles 11:27-28)?

Word and Spirit · Jul 13, 2020

Radagast said:
When did you last raise somebody from the dead (Acts of the Apostles 9:40)?

When did you last speak in a foreign language that you had not learned (Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11)?

When did you last accurately predict a major world event (Acts of the Apostles 11:27-28)?

Are you and Carl commiserating or are you debating? Who believes the word of God, and who is filled with unbelief?

Radagast · Jul 13, 2020

Word and Spirit said:
Are you and Carl commiserating or are you debating? Who believes the word of God, and who is filled with unbelief?

Well, when did you last raise somebody from the dead (Acts of the Apostles 9:40)?

When did you last speak in a foreign language that you had not learned (Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11)?

When did you last accurately predict a major world event (Acts of the Apostles 11:27-28)?

Word and Spirit · Jul 13, 2020

Radagast said:
Well, when did you last raise somebody from the dead (Acts of the Apostles 9:40)?

When did you last speak in a foreign language that you had not learned (Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11)?

When did you last accurately predict a major world event (Acts of the Apostles 11:27-28)?

I'm not the only one in the Church. But I know personally, Spirit-filled BELIEVERS who have. The problem with the modern church today seeing as it is the last church age is that it is lukewarm and doesn't believe it needs anything. But Jesus is still knocking.

Let me ask you the same thing. When did you last heal someone? Or hear God's voice tell you what to pray, you obeyed, and it was answered immediately? If not, would you even want these authorities?

Radagast · Jul 13, 2020

Word and Spirit said:
I'm not the only one in the Church. But I know personally, Spirit-filled BELIEVERS who have.

You know personally Spirit-filled believers who have raised people from the dead. Wow! that must have made both the local and national news! Can you please tell me the name of even one person who was raised from the dead?

You know personally Spirit-filled believers who have spoken in foreign language that they had not learned. Can you please tell me the name of even one language? And was there a native speaker of the language present who expressed the same amazement as in Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11?

You know personally Spirit-filled believers who have accurately predicted a major world event. Can you please tell me even one event, and when it was predicted? Did the prediction appear in print before the event?

Word and Spirit · Jul 13, 2020

Radagast said:
You know personally Spirit-filled believers who have raised people from the dead. Wow! that must have made both the local and national news! Can you please tell me the name of even one person who was raised from the dead?

I don't know the name of the person who was raised from the dead, just that man the Lord used. His name was Pastor and Missionary Jim Tolle. But you don't really care do you?

Being from Australia, certainly you have heard of Smith Wigglesworth.

Radagast said:
You know personally Spirit-filled believers who have spoken in foreign language that they had not learned. Can you please tell me the name of even one language? And was there a native speaker of the language present who expressed the same amazement as in Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11?

Pastor Jack Hayford was speaking in tongues and evidently Taiwanese men understood him. He doesn't know Taiwanese.

Radagast said:
You know personally Spirit-filled believers who have accurately predicted a major world event. Can you please tell me even one event, and when it was predicted? Did the prediction appear in print before the event?

Tom Horn predicted that the Roman Catholic Pope would resign in April of that year. And he did. God wakes him up to tell him these things. Also, God spoke to me about a personal prophecy that would happen on the day I moved, and it happened. And the vision I received was also accurate.

ChetSinger · Jul 13, 2020

I see no scriptural reason why the Holy Spirit shouldn't continue giving his gifts. And I've had some personal experiences that have convinced me he's still doing so. So I am most definitely a 'continualist', if that's even a word.

Radagast · Jul 13, 2020

Word and Spirit said:
I don't know the name of the person who was raised from the dead, just that man the Lord used. His name was Pastor and Missionary Jim Tolle. But you don't really care do you?

I've heard of Jim Tolle. I can find no evidence that he ever raised anybody from the dead.

And raising people from the dead is such a big thing that you'd expect news coverage.

Word and Spirit said:
Pastor Jack Hayford was speaking in tongues and evidently Taiwanese men understood him. He doesn't know Taiwanese.

"Evidently"? In the mission field, people will routinely gather to listen to a visiting preacher they cannot understand.

In any case, there is no such language as "Taiwanese."

Word and Spirit said:
Tom Horn predicted that the Roman Catholic Pope would resign in April of that year. And he did. God wakes him up to tell him these things.

That's not what his book says. His book says that he was merely interpreting the Prophetia Sancti Malachiae Archiepiscopi, de Summis Pontificibus.

In any case, Horn's prediction was wrong: he predicted a March 2012 resignation, and in fact Pope Benedict XVI resigned on 28 February 2013.

NBB · Jul 13, 2020

Prophecy is active and i have first hand, i mean i experienced it myself, and this minister was so sensitive and more knoweldge of me than myself in some areas, telling things of my past only the Holy spirit could have revealed, so believe... he also had some x-ray vision of my soul it would seem, that he knew what i was thinking, so yes believe, and you should ask for being filled with the Holy spirit also, this is for today, and not always happens at conversion, and its so needed today. I can't stress this enough, prophecy and being filled with the HS are for today like in the bible was.

NBB · Jul 13, 2020

Experience when it comes to this is better than an interpretation of the bible... or a 'good case' my case is i have seen this things, if Jesus were with the cessationists he would rebuke them for the total lack of faith, also they are putting stones in the path of people who may would come close to seeing the truth.

Just believe more is all i can say, the Holy spirit does a lot of things even today.

Silly Uncle Wayne · Jul 13, 2020

Albion said:
The case for cessationism is based on the fact that they did cease to be a feature of Christ's church at some point in the past.

The case for continuationism, at least as it has been made on these forums before, is based on saying "No, Christ promised that that would not happen so history must be wrong, no matter what the evidence is."

Which of those seems the more compelling argument?

Seems a very poor argument for either case. I've certainly never heard the latter as an argument for continuationism.

Silly Uncle Wayne · Jul 13, 2020

Radagast said:
I've heard of Jim Tolle. I can find no evidence that he ever raised anybody from the dead.

And raising people from the dead is such a big thing that you'd expect news coverage.

"Evidently"? In the mission field, people will routinely gather to listen to a visiting preacher they cannot understand.

In any case, there is no such language as "Taiwanese."

That's not what his book says. His book says that he was merely interpreting the Prophetia Sancti Malachiae Archiepiscopi, de Summis Pontificibus.

In any case, Horn's prediction was wrong: he predicted a March 2012 resignation, and in fact Pope Benedict XVI resigned on 28 February 2013.

Try Craig Keener's book on Miracles. It recounts numerous miracles including raising from the dead along with appropriate evidence and testimony. I've not got that far yet, still on the ancient miracles (i.e.post first century - so one in the eye for cessationism )

Carl Emerson · Jul 13, 2020

Radagast said:
When did you last raise somebody from the dead (Acts of the Apostles 9:40)?

When did you last speak in a foreign language that you had not learned (Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11)?

When did you last accurately predict a major world event (Acts of the Apostles 11:27-28)?

What are you trying to prove...

I have prayed that a lady having a heart attack be healed and she was immediately and never had a relapse.

I often speak in a foreign language I have not learned.

Six months before the Serbian war I was shown it would break out.

But really... what does that have to do with anything?

I just do what I am told - no big deal.

chevyontheriver · Jul 13, 2020

Tigger45 said:
Basically continuationism is the teaching that the miracles, signs and wonders described in the Bible (particularly in the NT) are still present in the church.

Thank you.

I would think miracles have ebbed and flowed through the history of the Church, never having been gone for long periods. I don't think I find it controversial. There are miracles. Still. Always have been.

I would think that the earlier Protestants would have to believe that miracles and signs and wonders would have had to have ceased at some point because otherwise they would be manifest in the Catholic Church. Or maybe they could believe that miracles reappeared after the Reformation.

I do know that there was a major Catholic push before the advent of the last millennium to have prayers for the increase of the Holy Spirit ... and then the Pentecostals happened.

chevyontheriver · Jul 13, 2020

Word and Spirit said:
Cessationism is the gifts of the Spirit ceased when the Bible was finished being written.

Continuationism (spelling???) is the gifts never ceased, but have continued.

Thank you.

Although I have never heard of 'continuationism' I guess I am a 'continuationalist'. The gifts of the Holy Spirit have ebbed and flowed but never ceased. There have been miracles here and there all along. St. Augustine noted the same issue.

Albion · Jul 13, 2020

Olmhinlu said:
What is your answer to that question?

Convince me of Continuationism.

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