Conviction vs Community

[D+C]

I've been to an Orthodox Church again this morning and I'm still trying to discern if it's for me. I'm intellectually convinced by orthodoxy, but I have to drive for half an hour to church. This makes me feel like I'm neglecting the community in my own village (which is an independent, evangelical congregation in a little 18th century dissenter's chapel). Community vs conviction, you could say!

The chapel in my village has a new, dynamic pastor who I have met with and who has challenged me to look past what I like (ancient and sacramental worship) and roll my sleeves up and engage with local fellowship. He is trying to grow the church and become a (small o) orthodox beacon in the community. I want to belong to the ancient church, but maybe that can be done in an independent evangelical chapel? I know I am much happier in Orthodox liturgical worship than in low church, non-liturgical services, but maybe that's my problem?

I'd appreciate input!

 

[Albion]

I've been to an Orthodox Church again this morning and I'm still trying to discern if it's for me. I'm intellectually convinced by orthodoxy, but I have to drive for half an hour to church. This makes me feel like I'm neglecting the community in my own village (which is an independent, evangelical congregation in a little 18th century dissenter's chapel). Community vs conviction, you could say!

The chapel in my village has a new, dynamic pastor who I have met with and who has challenged me to look past what I like (ancient and sacramental worship) and roll my sleeves up and engage with local fellowship. He is trying to grow the church and become a (small o) orthodox beacon in the community. I want to belong to the ancient church, but maybe that can be done in an independent evangelical chapel? I know I am much happier in Orthodox liturgical worship than in low church, non-liturgical services, but maybe that's my problem?

This is a tough one to answer, because many of us find something to appreciate in a variety of churches that have widely-different worship styles and etc. I'm inclined to say that you need to experience both of these churches over a longer period of time, and you probably will find that your gut (or shall I say "heart?") is telling you--quite apart from your reasoning--that one or the other is either "just not working for you" or else that one of them has turned out to be bringing you closer to God in a way that you can't totally explain.

 

[graceandpeace]

I've been to an Orthodox Church again this morning and I'm still trying to discern if it's for me. I'm intellectually convinced by orthodoxy, but I have to drive for half an hour to church. This makes me feel like I'm neglecting the community in my own village (which is an independent, evangelical congregation in a little 18th century dissenter's chapel). Community vs conviction, you could say!

The chapel in my village has a new, dynamic pastor who I have met with and who has challenged me to look past what I like (ancient and sacramental worship) and roll my sleeves up and engage with local fellowship. He is trying to grow the church and become a (small o) orthodox beacon in the community. I want to belong to the ancient church, but maybe that can be done in an independent evangelical chapel? I know I am much happier in Orthodox liturgical worship than in low church, non-liturgical services, but maybe that's my problem?

I'd appreciate input!

If you are inclined toward Orthodox theology, sacramental life in the church, ancient or "high church" or liturgical form, then I honestly think you should follow your conviction. I don't think an "independent evangelical" place will be able to substitute for what you are looking for. 30 min drive on a Sunday morning is not that far & is worth it if it will get you to a church you are feeling drawn to.

Also, it makes me nervous to hear that this pastor told you to "look past" the sacraments or worship; I can't judge for sure without context, but it gives me the impression that they probably hold to ordinance theology or want to push more contemporary pop culture-ish churchy stuff. Again, I don't know for sure, you would have to research more I guess.

Good luck.

Disclaimer: I am currently seeking a church myself & leaning towards one of the apostolic succession churches - in my case, the Orthodox Church or an Anglican Church.

 

[1watchman]

It never is a good idea to follow one's preferences, but bow to the Word of God (read it daily beginning in the Gospels). It sounds like your local village has the best source of real Christian testimony there. Look up always, D+C and pray earnestly for God to teach you by His own Word.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

The chapel in my village has a new, dynamic pastor who I have met with and who has challenged me to look past what I like (ancient and sacramental worship) and roll my sleeves up and engage with local fellowship.

We should always look past what we want, but what God demands is the ancient, sacramental worship. That is the Christian way to worship God. Others have changed that way, but the fact remains that Christianity is liturgical and sacramental, and those who are practicing it in a different way are the ones adding their own preferences into the service. The Liturgy forms us, we don't form the Liturgy.

Local fellowship is important. Orthodoxy supports the idea of the village church around which the community can gather and support one another. Your village doesn't have that for now, but the solution is not to take less than Christ's design and make it work.

I want to belong to the ancient church, but maybe that can be done in an independent evangelical chapel? I know I am much happier in Orthodox liturgical worship than in low church, non-liturgical services, but maybe that's my problem?

I'd appreciate input!

It can't be done from an Orthodox perspective. The ancient Church is what she is, a Beacon on a Hill, not an invisible conglomeration. I am not judging the piety or sincerity of your new local pastor, or his congregation, but God calls everyone to the Orthodox Church. Come home.

 

[Albion]

We should always look past what we want, but what God demands is the ancient, sacramental worship.

That is the Christian way to worship God. Others have changed that way, but the fact remains that Christianity is liturgical and sacramental, and those who are practicing it in a different way are the ones adding their own preferences into the service. The Liturgy forms us, we don't form the Liturgy.

Except that that theory is quite incorrect. The various liturgies that we are familiar with are not the ones used in the Early Church, and the idea of liturgical worship itself was something that grew only over a period of time that was centuries long. The first celebrations of the Eucharist are known to have been quite simple in style.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

Except that that theory is quite incorrect. The various liturgies that we are familiar with are not the ones used in the Early Church, and the idea of liturgical worship itself was something that grew only over a period of time that was centuries long. The first celebrations of the Eucharist are known to have been quite simple in style.

The First Apology of St. Justin Martyr is the earliest recorded Eucharistic celebration I have ever read about and describes a liturgy, and is dated AD 155-157, which is far less than "centuries." The Temple worship was Liturgical, house churches were set up to be liturgical (look at the archeological evidence and layouts: a reserved room for the celebration, an altar, often a separate room for catechumens, etc. etc.) And though the date is disputed (of course) some date the Liturgy of St. James to AD 60. Liturgy is Christian.

I'm not going to continue this debate, I won't respond again, it's off topic, yet it had to be said (apparently) that "liturgy" doesn't mean "elaborate." What you said is factually incorrect. Liturgical worship stretches back to the Apostles.

 

[Albion]

The First Apology of St. Justin Martyr is the earliest recorded Eucharistic celebrations I have ever read about and describes a liturgy, and is dated AD 155-157

Which substantiates my point that the worship services of the first Christians were quite simple.

The Temple worship was Liturgical, house churches were set up to be liturgical (look at the archeological evidence and layouts: a reserved room for the celebration, an altar, often a separate room for catechumens, etc. etc.)

None of that proves that the earliest Christian worship was as complicated or elaborate as it came to be later. Not in the least. And we know from history that it was not.

I'm not going to continue this debate, I won't respond again

OK

 

[graciesings]

I've been to an Orthodox Church again this morning and I'm still trying to discern if it's for me. I'm intellectually convinced by orthodoxy, but I have to drive for half an hour to church. This makes me feel like I'm neglecting the community in my own village (which is an independent, evangelical congregation in a little 18th century dissenter's chapel). Community vs conviction, you could say!

The chapel in my village has a new, dynamic pastor who I have met with and who has challenged me to look past what I like (ancient and sacramental worship) and roll my sleeves up and engage with local fellowship. He is trying to grow the church and become a (small o) orthodox beacon in the community. I want to belong to the ancient church, but maybe that can be done in an independent evangelical chapel? I know I am much happier in Orthodox liturgical worship than in low church, non-liturgical services, but maybe that's my problem?

I'd appreciate input!

I'm afraid I'm in a similar situation! God has called me to the Catholic church, I think He has a task for me to do there. However, everyone I know is Protestant -- my family, my one close female friend, and my boyfriend. I have to struggle to value God's leading over the people I know.

I will be praying for you.

God bless you,
Grace.

 

[D+C]

Thank you all for your prayers and input.

 

[parsley]

D+C, what is to stop you from doing both? It sounds like the liturgical church does not expect a lot from members during the week, so the service stands alone as an event to attend. People attend weekly concerts -- why not just say this is "your thing" and insist on it for yourself?

Then tell the local pastor that while you do not plan to attend Sundays, you would like to be part of the local ministry that the church does during the week. That is usually possible to do without permission -- just show up for meetings and pour yourself into it while you're there.

If serving and contributing your time and expertise, you would be no imposition. And if you are not leading people away from the church's doctrine, then you would not create conflict that he could object to.

This is your life (and God's) -- your decision. You can show strength in being a semi-free agent, not letting one allegiance define you. Look at the apostle Paul -- he barely stayed in one place.

 

[parsley]

Strange.. a post jumped threads when I hit "save." -Removed-