Converting "Mormons"

[ST:DS9]

I dont personally know about JS but BY was married to at least one thirteed year old and in my book and the eyes of the law, he would therefore be a child molester.

Try 15, and in the eyes of the law back then, it wasn't illegal, nor was it morally wrong back then. Both my grandmothers were 15 when they married my grandfathers who were more then twice thier ages. Many of my granmothers friends were also married at 15 or 16 and to much older men. You can't impose legal or moral issues of the late 20th century to the 19th century.

 

[Ran77]

I dont personally know about JS but BY was married to at least one thirteed year old and in my book and the eyes of the law, he would therefore be a child molester.

What do you think the average age of women/girls were during that period of time when they were married? If I'm not mistaken they were considered old maids by 18.

It seems to me that this argument applies today's standards and not what was considered acceptable practice at the time it happened. That is intellectually dishonest. It is something to be expected when a person has chosen to push forward an adjenda rather than look at the facts surrounding an issue.

 

[Ran77]

Try 15, and in the eyes of the law back then, it wasn't illegal, nor was it morally wrong back then. Both my grandmothers were 15 when they married my grandfathers who were more then twice thier ages. Many of my granmothers friends were also married at 15 or 16 and to much older men. You can't impose legal or moral issues of the late 20th century to the 19th century.

Hey, thats like what I said - except you beat me to it.

 

[christopher123]

Try 15, and in the eyes of the law back then, it wasn't illegal, nor was it morally wrong back then.

I guess the fact that Joseph was already married to Emma, or Brigham Young to his wife is ignored when discussing whether or not polygamy was illegal?


Chris <><

Try this on for size:

www.wivesofjosephsmith.org


This one is good too. An official church site with Joseph's group record.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=7762167


edited because of unclearity from subject to anecedant. Thanks Doc.

 

[Doc T]

I guess the fact that he was already married to Emma is ignored when discussing whether or not it was illegal?


Chris <><

Brigham Young was married to Emma??? I don't think you read the above posts to closely.

Doc

~

 

[ST:DS9]

I guess the fact that he was already married to Emma is ignored when discussing whether or not it was illegal?


Chris <><

Try this on for size:

www.wivesofjosephsmith.org


This one is good too. An official church site with Joseph's group record.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=7762167

It wasn't illegal, from what I understand it wasn't illegal until 1860(I think I could be wrong here), and it was bigomy that was illegal and not polygamy. It is not illegal to practice polygamy, but it is for bigomy (which is registering more then one marriage with the state while another is still recognized). There are no laws saying that a man can't marry ( a marriage only recognized by a Church, and not the state) more then one wife.

 

[skylark1]

It wasn't illegal, from what I understand it wasn't illegal until 1860(I think I could be wrong here), and it was bigomy that was illegal and not polygamy. It is not illegal to practice polygamy, but it is for bigomy (which is registering more then one marriage with the state while another is still recognized). There are no laws saying that a man can't marry ( a marriage only recognized by a Church, and not the state) more then one wife.

Are you aware of any reference to Illinois law that stated bigamy was considered to be such only if the marriage was registered with the state?

I came across the following law that was enacted February 12, 1833:

"Bigamy consists in the having of two wives or two husbands at one and the same time, knowing that the former husband or wife is still alive. If any person or persons within the State, being married, or who shall hereafter marry, do at any time marry any person or persons, the former husband or wife being alive, the person so offended shall, on conviction thereof, be punished by a fine, not exceeding one thousand dollars, and imprisoned in the penitentiary, not exceeding two years." (Revised Laws of Illinois, Vandalia: Greiner & Sherman, 1833, pg. 198-199).


source



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[happyinhisgrace]

It most certainly is. It is by far the most effective missionary tool. It is a powerful testament of Jesus Christ.

Interesting. I think the Holy Spirit is the great converter to Christ.

 

[CrownCaster]

Try 15, and in the eyes of the law back then, it wasn't illegal, nor was it morally wrong back then. Both my grandmothers were 15 when they married my grandfathers who were more then twice thier ages. Many of my granmothers friends were also married at 15 or 16 and to much older men. You can't impose legal or moral issues of the late 20th century to the 19th century.

I am sorry but just because something is legal it does not make it right. Yes, BY was married to a thirteed year old also. This is pedophilia no matter what the law says.

 

[CrownCaster]

Interesting. I think the Holy Spirit is the great converter to Christ.

Only when we are speaking of the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

 

[christopher123]

It is not illegal to practice polygamy,

It is in my house.

There are no laws saying that a man can't marry ( a marriage only recognized by a Church, and not the state) more then one wife.

Besides the welfare fraud, didn't Green get also convicted of polygamy even though he only had one state recognized wife?


Chris <><

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I am sorry but just because something is legal it does not make it right. Yes, BY was married to a thirteed year old also. This is pedophilia no matter what the law says.

One of my grandmothers married her first husband at the age of 13. Her husband was in his mid-twenties at the time. That is sick in my book. My grandma told me that she only married him because her grandma was raising her and they were going hungry because they had no money, so my grandma's grandma arranged the marriage with this guy and my grandma and they married. He was not my grandpa though, he ended up getting killed in an auto repair accident and my grandma, who had 3 very young children married the man who is my grandpa (who was her first husband's best friend), 6 months after her first husbands death because she couldn't make enough money sewing to take care of her 3 young children. Sad indeed.

I know that some people don't agree with me but I think it is sick for a much older man to marry a girl who is in their early teens. For heaven's sake, those girls are still children, they haven't even finished developing yet. Do any of you who think this is ok have any idea what it does to a girls body to have a baby at that age? Would any of you who think this is ok, do it yourself? Would you (whoever you are) as a 40, 50, 60 etc. year old man marry a girl that was young enough to be your grandchild? SICK!!!!!!

 

[CrownCaster]

One of my grandmothers married her first husband at the age of 13. Her husband was in his mid-twenties at the time. That is sick in my book. My grandma told me that she only married him because her grandma was raising her and they were going hungry because they had no money, so my grandma's grandma arranged the marriage with this guy and my grandma and they married. He was not my grandpa though, he ended up getting killed in an auto repair accident and my grandma, who had 3 very young children married the man who is my grandpa (who was her first husband's best friend), 6 months after her first husbands death because she couldn't make enough money sewing to take care of her 3 young children. Sad indeed.

I know that some people don't agree with me but I think it is sick for a much older man to marry a girl who is in their early teens. For heaven's sake, those girls are still children, they haven't even finished developing yet. Do any of you who think this is ok have any idea what it does to a girls body to have a baby at that age? Would any of you who think this is ok, do it yourself? Would you (whoever you are) as a 40, 50, 60 etc. year old man marry a girl that was young enough to be your grandchild? SICK!!!!!!

I worked with victims of sexual abuse and even such things as this where the child THINKS they are in a consenting loving relationship, the child is getting hurt. Only a pedophile would marry a thirteen year old child. Sick does not even begin to describe this atrocity.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I worked with victims of sexual abuse and even such things as this where the child THINKS they are in a consenting loving relationship, the child is getting hurt. Only a pedophile would marry a thirteen year old child. Sick does not even begin to describe this atrocity.

My grandma felt like she had no other choice but it was a terrible experience for her. No child (and yes, they are children) should EVER have to be abused like this. God have mercy on the grown men that find it acceptable and desirous to abuse a child like this!!!!

(As you can tell, I am very passionate about this topic!)

 

[neocon]

Brigham Young was married to Emma??? I don't think you read the above posts to closely.

Doc

~

Doc it would appear that you cut & pasted then altered a quote from christopher123. That strikes me as a tad dishonest.

 

[neocon]

I am sorry but just because something is legal it does not make it right. Yes, BY was married to a thirteed year old also. This is pedophilia no matter what the law says.

BUT, BUT islam, mormonism and the Branch Davidians all have 'prophets' who got the straight skinny from their god that its OK.

 

[Swart]

Interesting. I think the Holy Spirit is the great converter to Christ.

Touché

 

[Swart]

Be stunned all you want. LDS "missionary efforts" do the same thing that the lds accuse "anti's" of doing. Which is VERY evident to anyone who goes to their little training sessions at the MTC. It was almost 4 years ago when I was going to them. Unless they have changed them since then, it is a very eye opening experience. Maybe you should go check it out for yourself.

Having served as a missionary, I can say this was not my experience in the MTC or as a serving missionary. Nor has it been my experience serving as a stake missionary or as a WML. We would conduct training sessions according to the guidelines laid out in the Missionary Guide. These involved resolving concerns, building relationships of trust, commitment invitations and following-up.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Having served as a missionary, I can say this was not my experience in the MTC or as a serving missionary. Nor has it been my experience serving as a stake missionary or as a WML. We would conduct training sessions according to the guidelines laid out in the Missionary Guide. These involved resolving concerns, building relationships of trust, commitment invitations and following-up.

Swart, when you trained at the MTC in provo, did they video record the training sessions?

 

[Swart]

Swart, when you trained at the MTC in provo, did they video record the training sessions?

I attended the New Zealand MTC. We may have done one recorded session, I don't remember. I did four or five in the mission field. The purpose was to see how we looked from the investigators perspective. If someone tells you you pick your nose too often, it's easy to ignore. When you see yourself doing it on video, the cringe-factor is supreme.

The purpose of the video sessions was not to practice technique or hone skills, but to iron out idiosynchracies. About half the time we were teaching the camera, no-one else was in the room. One time one of the missionaries behind the camera decided to give us a hard time by throwing difficult questions at us, but we found it hard to take seriously. The last minute of the video was of me rolling on the ground laughing.