Converting "Mormons"

[happyinhisgrace]

I am amused that you liken LDS missionary efforts with the anti-Mormon efforts. It requires a fertile imagination to group them together. On one hand you have the LDS Church speaking about what they have to offer. (A positive message that explains our teachings.) On the other hand you have the mainstream Christian attacks on the LDS Church. This would include the numerous accusations that the LDS are devil worshippers, pagans, etc that I read on this forum. (A negative message that is intended to sully the image of the LDS Church.)

Our efforts to share what we believe is God's message with others is considered talking bad about other faiths. Yet mainstream Christianity believes that their efforts to do the same thing are not attacks. Even though they include name calling. How strange that this double standard is seen as an acceptable Christian view.

I am stunned by this line of thought.

Be stunned all you want. LDS "missionary efforts" do the same thing that the lds accuse "anti's" of doing. Which is VERY evident to anyone who goes to their little training sessions at the MTC. It was almost 4 years ago when I was going to them. Unless they have changed them since then, it is a very eye opening experience. Maybe you should go check it out for yourself.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

A real "eye opener" has never made me wink so much.

I stand by my former comment that if the approach used by LDS missionaries is similar to the 'informative sites' under question, I would consider them out of line.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I never have, and thank you for the suggestion. Meanwhile, the argument is still my personal experience against yours.

My understanding also is that I have a different response from you to many goings on in the church, and I would gather our opinions differ on many more things. You and I have vastly different interpretation styles.

Yes, we do have different views on things but even as an active lds when attending those "training sessions", I knew it was a sales training pitch and knew they were pointing out differences between Christianity and Mormonism and what Mormonism could offer that christianity could not.

To be honest, I always got a "sick" feeling in the pit of my stomach when I took part in those sessions just because of they way they did it but hey, I was a good mormon woman and when I was asked to do something to "further the gospel", who was I to say no.

Seriously AS, if you get the chance, go to one and then let me know what you thought.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Yes, we do have different views on things but even as an active lds when attending those "training sessions", I knew it was a sales training pitch and knew they were pointing out differences between Christianity and Mormonism and what Mormonism could offer that christianity could not.

OK ... so while presenting our beliefs, you made the assumption that they were presenting attacks on other religions.

I do not make those assumptions, and there you have our obvious difference in interpretation tendancies.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

OK ... so while presenting our beliefs, you made the assumption that they were presenting attacks on other religions.

I do not make those assumptions, and there you have our obvious difference in interpretation tendancies.

I am not sure you understood what I was saying.

I didn't make an assumption. When they flat out say that Christianity can not give you what Mormonism can and then they preciede to tell of how Christianity is in apostacy and the lds church has the truth and is not in apostacy but is correct, unlike Christianity that has no athority.... that is an attack.

I think you have your head in the sand and just don't want to acknowlege that the lds would ever attack christianity the way that lds feel christianity attacks them.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

When they flat out say that Christianity can not give you what Mormonism can and then they preciede to tell of how Christianity is in apostacy and the lds church has the truth and is not in apostacy but is correct, unlike Christianity that has no athority.... that is an attack.

I am LDS.

I believe that there was an apostasy.

I believe that the LDS organization has the proper preisthood authority to perform ordinances.

I do not DO NOT, nor will I ever, interpret those beliefs as a direct attack on other religions. They are not a direct attack.

Just as your holding the belief that you have the truth and LDS do not is not a direct attack on the LDS church. It just is not.

 

[Ran77]

LDS "missionary efforts" do the same thing that the lds accuse "anti's" of doing. Which is VERY evident to anyone who goes to their little training sessions at the MTC.

Really, the LDS missionary efforts call members of other churches satan worshippers and accuse their leadership of being child molestors. I have to call you on this one. I think this is untrue.

Can anyone else verify that this is what is taught at the MTC?

 

[Jason of Wyoming]

I disagree. The establishment of a particular faith does not translate directly to a direct attack on another.

It does when it takes away people from one faith into the new faith. For every new convert you win, you take a person out of Christianity. If that's not an attack, then I don't understand the meaning of the term.

It may be seen as an indirect attack, but only to those eager to pull the persecution card (a tendancy of which LDS are often accused). If you consider my personal testimony and desire to share it an attack on your faith, I think that is a very small way to look at things.

If you're friends and family were being converted through an aggressive proselyting campaign into Hinduism, you wouldn't have a problem with it? Did you know that it's actually against the Canon Law of the Roman Catholic Church to proselytize someone from another Christian denomination?

I disagree here as well. Dont mix LDS theology with Utah culture. Utah cultures with its 'Hawaiian Haystacks' and jello salads sickens me, but it has nothing to do with my testimony.

The two are inseparably connected. Why else do you think that you can go to any church service in the world, and it's as if you were still in Provo??

What church services are you speaking of?

Specifically, the 3 hour block of meetings on Sundays.

 

[Jason of Wyoming]

Really, the LDS missionary efforts call members of other churches satan worshippers and accuse their leadership of being child molestors. I have to call you on this one. I think this is untrue.

As a missionary, I used to point out the "child molesting" Roman Catholic priests all the time. I called that church the "great and abominable Church of the Devil".

Im sure that many still do this.

Can anyone else verify that this is what is taught at the MTC?

It's not taught by the MTC, but it is taught by missionaries in the MTC. See the difference?

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Really, the LDS missionary efforts call members of other churches satan worshippers and accuse their leadership of being child molestors. I have to call you on this one. I think this is untrue.

Can anyone else verify that this is what is taught at the MTC?

I never said that the MTC taught that Christian leaders where child molestors. Nice try at putting words in my mouth.

 

[Ran77]

I never said that the MTC taught that Christian leaders where child molestors. Nice try at putting words in my mouth.

Ok, lets look at what you said: "LDS "missionary efforts" do the same thing that the lds accuse "anti's" of doing."

On this forum Joseph Smith is routinely accused of being a child molestor. I have to go no further than this forum to see that the anti's make statements about our leaders on this and many other things. We, LDS, accuse the anti's of name calling against us and our leaders.

If the LDS missionary effort does the same thing that the LDS accuse the anti's of doing then (logic alert!!!) it means they are accusing the leaders of other churches of being child molestors, and satan worshippers. Because that would be "the same thing" - as opposed to a similar thing.

Putting words in your mouth? No, I applied them. You stated they do the same thing we accuse the anti's. You included no qualifier. Anything that we generally accuse the anti's of doing is included in your statement. You should be more careful about making broad and inaccurate statements.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Ok, lets look at what you said: "LDS "missionary efforts" do the same thing that the lds accuse "anti's" of doing."

On this forum Joseph Smith is routinely accused of being a child molestor. I have to go no further than this forum to see that the anti's make statements about our leaders on this and many other things. We, LDS, accuse the anti's of name calling against us and our leaders.

If the LDS missionary effort does the same thing that the LDS accuse the anti's of doing then (logic alert!!!) it means they are accusing the leaders of other churches of being child molestors, and satan worshippers. Because that would be "the same thing" - as opposed to a similar thing.

Putting words in your mouth? No, I applied them. You stated they do the same thing we accuse the anti's. You included no qualifier. Anything that we generally accuse the anti's of doing is included in your statement. You should be more careful about making broad and inaccurate statements.

Your being rediculous. Shall I now, from this time forward include every single thing that lds say against Christianity and what Christianity say against lds. Do you really think that being that specific is nessesary? Are you really into 20 page posts? Logic alert to you ran! You did not apply my words because I never even said what you stated.

Do you work for FAIR or FARMS? (sits back and waits for the additional rediculous post from you that will follow this one.)

 

[Ran77]

It's not taught by the MTC, but it is taught by missionaries in the MTC. See the difference?

Yes I do see the difference. If it is not taught by the MTC then it is a practice adopted by individuals and does not represent the Church, but rather those individuals.

Based on your statement it appears that you have gone from attacking other's beliefs as a LDS to attacking other's beliefs as a "Christian." Regardless of your religious preferrence I believe it to be wrong.

 

[Ran77]

Your being rediculous.

Is it ridiculous to expect people to be accurate in their statements? Or accountable for what they have said?

Shall I now, from this time forward include every single thing that lds say against Christianity and what Christianity say against lds. Do you really think that being that specific is nessesary? Are you really into 20 page posts?

Knock yourself out. Although it would probably be sufficient to just stop making broad and inaccurate statements.

Logic alert to you ran! You did not apply my words because I never even said what you stated.

You didn't say what I quoted? I would guess you are not disputing my quote. Which would mean you are having trouble understanding how your broad and inaccurate statement opens the door for what I wrote.

Maybe it would help if you took a second look at my original post. It discussed the name calling that is prevalent within the "Christian" community towards the LDS and how that is compared to our expressing our beliefs. Within the context of my original statement I have already established that name calling is one of the issues being discussed.

Your follow-up comments indicate that our missionary effort does the "Same thng." I included a couple examples of the name calling that is directed at us.

I hope that simplifies the matter for you.

Do you work for FAIR or FARMS? (sits back and waits for the additional rediculous post from you that will follow this one.)

Do they employee people to contribute? I thought it was a voluntary effort. In either case I do not contribute. I did browse the website once though.


In your post you have accused me of being ridiculous and making ridiculous posts. These are personal attacks. I have addressed the comments that you presented and you have returned with attacks on my person. I feel that this is similar (as opposed to "the same") to my observation about the anti's. Which would be we express a view and our opponents resort to name calling.

 

[ZealouS]

2 Tim. 2:23-26

23Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

That is the best way to win converts. With all my religious ranting I might not seem like a kind person but usually I am. Just have alot issues with the LDS religion that frustrate me. Anyways yea the above verse is the best way to convert anyone into the glory of Christs body. True followers of Christ are found in every religion so I think it is wise to be careful when converting. You do not want to call Good evil and evil good.

 

[Jason of Wyoming]

Based on your statement it appears that you have gone from attacking other's beliefs as a LDS to attacking other's beliefs as a "Christian." Regardless of your religious preferrence I believe it to be wrong.

You can (and do) believe whatever you want. I don't believe it is wrong, and in fact believe it is necessary and right.

There's an old Latin proverb that says: "Qui Tacet Consentit." It means "He who is silent, consents."

If you're not vocal about your opposition, it is as if you approve. That's why I bash mormonism.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Is it ridiculous to expect people to be accurate in their statements? Or accountable for what they have said?





Knock yourself out. Although it would probably be sufficient to just stop making broad and inaccurate statements.





You didn't say what I quoted? I would guess you are not disputing my quote. Which would mean you are having trouble understanding how your broad and inaccurate statement opens the door for what I wrote.

Maybe it would help if you took a second look at my original post. It discussed the name calling that is prevalent within the "Christian" community towards the LDS and how that is compared to our expressing our beliefs. Within the context of my original statement I have already established that name calling is one of the issues being discussed.

Your follow-up comments indicate that our missionary effort does the "Same thng." I included a couple examples of the name calling that is directed at us.

I hope that simplifies the matter for you.





Do they employee people to contribute? I thought it was a voluntary effort. In either case I do not contribute. I did browse the website once though.


In your post you have accused me of being ridiculous and making ridiculous posts. These are personal attacks. I have addressed the comments that you presented and you have returned with attacks on my person. I feel that this is similar (as opposed to "the same") to my observation about the anti's. Which would be we express a view and our opponents resort to name calling.

If you feel I am making a personal attack, then report me. Either way, quit wasting my time with such a stupid argument.

 

[skylark1]

2 Tim. 2:23-26

23Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

That is the best way to win converts. With all my religious ranting I might not seem like a kind person but usually I am. Just have alot issues with the LDS religion that frustrate me. Anyways yea the above verse is the best way to convert anyone into the glory of Christs body. True followers of Christ are found in every religion so I think it is wise to be careful when converting. You do not want to call Good evil and evil good.

Zeal, good choice of verses!

 

[Jason of Wyoming]

2 Tim. 2:23-26

23Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

It would seem that St. Paul has convicted all of us.

 

[Ran77]

If you feel I am making a personal attack, then report me. Either way, quit wasting my time with such a stupid argument.

Stating that I am (insert negative comment) is making a personal attack. It is not my feeling on the matter. It is an attack.

Similar to your own advice - if you don't like my comments then place me on Ignore. You lack the authority to command me to stop posting.