Converting from Catholic to Baptist

[JimmyV]

Yes, but there are other passages in the Bible where entire families were baptised. Still, other miracles where Jesus saved a person at the request of someone else (Roman solider asked Jesus to save his (the solider's) slave and the parents who asked Jesus to save their daughter who had just died) are two such times that come to mind.

 

[prgallo]

Yes, but there are other passages in the Bible where entire families were baptised. Still, other miracles where Jesus saved a person at the request of someone else (Roman solider asked Jesus to save his (the solider's) slave and the parents who asked Jesus to save their daughter who had just died) are two such times that come to mind.

The miracles you mention happened prior to the formation of the Church. Although their lives were saved they weren't Christians with the Holy Spirit living in them. That has nothing to do with leaving the RCC and becoming a born again Christian who has decided to worship at the Baptist chruch. Which is exactly what I did too so I can relate.

I wouldn't assume that the decision was taken lightly, but it isn't a decision of will anyway but of necessity. Once someone understands the Gospel and is saved they can't remain.

 

[IisJustMe]

Yes, this is a Baptist forum. However, the young lady's mom is converting from the Catholic Church and should understand what she is leaving.

Pope Benedict XVI recently "pronounced" the Roman Catholic Church the only "one true church" by which salvation is accomplished. Aside from the fact that a church does not save, what is your opinion of his position, and how does it affect such conversions as the young lady has described?

 

[JimmyV]

The miracles you mention happened prior to the formation of the Church. Although their lives were saved they weren't Christians with the Holy Spirit living in them. That has nothing to do with leaving the RCC and becoming a born again Christian who has decided to worship at the Baptist chruch. Which is exactly what I did too so I can relate.

I wouldn't assume that the decision was taken lightly, but it isn't a decision of will anyway but of necessity. Once someone understands the Gospel and is saved they can't remain.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make. The lives were saved at the request of another individual on their behalf.

I didn't assume the decision was made lightly, but this is a very basic Christian doctrine - Baptism is a Sacrament that removes original sin from the soul, thus there is no need (and cannot be performed) to rebaptise.
Because this is not understood, I believe the lady should continue to ask for the Holy Ghost to guide her and give herself time.

 

[JimmyV]

IisJustMe, I think you are off the topic in question.

 

[IisJustMe]

IisJustMe, I think you are off the topic in question.

... you're avoiding the question. You are the one who stated the woman should "know what she is leaving ... " and as she is leaving the RCC, perhaps someone believes she is leaving the "one true church." I think, in light of the fact that this forum supports the concept that every Christ-believing, Christ-preaching church on the planet has the message of salvation (and given your Catholic affiliation, and thus presumptive belief that the statements of the head of your denomination are canonical) it is a valid point to bring up.

 

[fireman1173005]

Depends on the type of Baptist church. I am Southern Baptist and in my church, yes she would need to be re-baptized. Like was said before, if she is not sure she has accepted Jesus Christ as her personal Lord and Savior, invited Him into her heart, and turned from her sin to follow Him, then she needs to take care of that before getting baptized. That is the important part, not that baptism isn't important, but it alone can't save your soul!!!

Brian

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

That is the important part, not that baptism isn't important, but it alone can't save your soul!!!

Not only can't baptism alone save your soul, it can't save your soul with it plus anything else! Baptism has NO part in salvation. Baptism DOES NOT take away sin. Only trusting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior will save you. Believing that he alone died for your sins is what really matters. Faith, and faith alone, saves. Just make sure your faith is in the right thing.

 

[edie19]

Not only can't baptism alone save your soul, it can't save your soul with it plus anything else! Baptism has NO part in salvation. Baptism DOES NOT take away sin. Only trusting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior will save you. Believing that he alone died for your sins is what really matters. Faith, and faith alone, saves. Just make sure your faith is in the right thing.

A big and very hearty AMEN. Baptism is not salvific!!!

As an FYI - I was baptized as an infant. Infant baptism was the one thing I really didn't understand in my Presbyterian church (could never align it with "believe and be baptized.") My pastor was very understanding of my concerns and, in fact, stated that he had baptized quite a few teens/adults who agreed with my viewpoint.

Anyhow, when I joined my reformed baptist church (loved the reformed doctrine of my youth and agreed with the credo-baptism), my pastor and I discussed my baptism at length. While I strongly agree with credo baptism - I felt that being rebaptized was a bit of a slap to my parents who raised me and exposed me to and encouraged my faith. My pastor understood completely - I joined the church, took part in communion, served as a volunteer on staff all without a believer baptism. After my mom passed away - I was baptized by immersion - an act of obedience to our Father God and a statement of my faith - but certainly not a work on my part.

 

[JimmyV]

... you're avoiding the question. You are the one who stated the woman should "know what she is leaving ... " and as she is leaving the RCC, perhaps someone believes she is leaving the "one true church." I think, in light of the fact that this forum supports the concept that every Christ-believing, Christ-preaching church on the planet has the message of salvation (and given your Catholic affiliation, and thus presumptive belief that the statements of the head of your denomination are canonical) it is a valid point to bring up.

Of course she may read the recent letter from the Holy Father and I would encourage her to do so. I think the central question for each of us is that the person making the conversion have an understanding of the faith she is leaving. Concerning the question on re-baptism, it is evident that she does not understand her Catholic faith. I think we can all agree that, prior to leaving, she should have knowledge of what she is leaving.

P.S. My infant Baptism washed away original sin from my soul and claimed me for Jesus Christ.

 

[edie19]

Of course she may read the recent letter from the Holy Father and I would encourage her to do so. I think the central question for each of us is that the person making the conversion have an understanding of the faith she is leaving. Concerning the question on re-baptism, it is evident that she does not understand her Catholic faith. I think we can all agree that, prior to leaving, she should have knowledge of what she is leaving.

P.S. My infant Baptism washed away original sin from my soul and claimed me for Jesus Christ.

Or maybe she does understand and that's why she's leaving. We have multiple church members (including myself) who've been members of/regularly attended the RCC and found reformed doctrine to be much more in line with Scripture.

And yes - in my previous post I said that I was raised in the Presbyterian church - but my husband was raised Catholic. When our children were small he wanted to have them attend the RCC, which we did and I regularly accompanied them. When it became all to apparent that I was the only one going to mass, I went looking for a church whose doctrine I found more Scriptural - hence a reformed church.

 

[JimmyV]

All denominations say they are more Scriptural, but are never able to back the claim up.

 

[Epiphoskei]

All denominations say they are more Scriptural, but are never able to back the claim up.

And the king of these is the RCC!
Realize where you are posting- this is not a forum for interdenominational debate.

Baptism does not wash away anything but dirt, and only an appeal to God for a clean conscience can save us.
Believers' baptism is the only one baptism of the one faith.
These are central scriptural and accordingly Baptist doctrines that are not subject to outside debate.
http://www.christianforums.com/t5769324-please-read-before-posting-current-subforum-rules.html

 

[DeaconDean]

Yes, but there are other passages in the Bible where entire families were baptised. Still, other miracles where Jesus saved a person at the request of someone else (Roman solider asked Jesus to save his (the solider's) slave and the parents who asked Jesus to save their daughter who had just died) are two such times that come to mind.

While I will respect your convictions about your beliefs, please do not come in here (Baptist room) and feel that you are going to be able to justify your beliefs.

It was only after the apostles had preached, and faith had been given, did "households" get baptized.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" -Rom. 6:3 (KJV)

When Jesus came to John the Baptist to be baptized, what did Jesus have to repent of? Remember that John the Baptist was a preacher of repentance. (cf. Matt. 3:2) Nothing my friend. And Jesus' baptism was not the example we are supposed to follow either. I know that is the usual response, but, nevertheless, that is incorrect also.

JtB preached repentance. Jesus came to John to be baptized. What did Jesus have to repent of? Nothing, therefore, the answer must lie in some other reason. The reason Jesus submitted to John's baptism, was to fulfill Levitical law. According to Ex. 12, we also read:

"Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house: And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb. Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening." Ex. 12:3-6 (KJV)

According to God's command, on the 10th day of Passover, a lamb without blemish, spotless was chosen from the flock. It was kept in the house until the 13th day and then examined again to see if it was still without spot. Then on the 14th day, it was slain, and then the blood applied to the door posts. However, this is not the end of the story. In Lev. 1, we also read:

"And the priests, Aaron's sons, shall lay the parts, the head, and the fat, in order upon the wood that is on the fire which is upon the altar: But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD." -Lev. 1:8-9 (KJV)

In one sense, Jesus' baptism is our example, but then again it isn't. You see, by Jesus submitting to John's baptism, that was His public proclaimation of His presenting Himself to the Father to be our sacrificial lamb. And after Jesus' baptism, we have the Father's acceptance of Jesus as the sacrificial lamb, and His audible approval of such:

"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." -Matt. 3:17 (KJV)

The day before Passover, Jesus took James, John, and Peter to the Mount of Transfiguration. There, Jesus was examined again by God and another final approval from God that His Son was ready to go to Calvary:

"And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.' -Mk. 9:7 (KJV)

If Jesus' baptism was the example we are to follow, why did not the disciples or Jesus Himself not baptize?

The command to baptize wasn't given until Pentecost. (cf. Mt. 28:19-20)

Paul plainly tells us that baptism is our "identification" with Jesus in His death and resurrection. (cf. Rom. 6:3-4)

My infant Baptism washed away original sin from my soul and claimed me for Jesus Christ.

Baptist does not wash away original sin of anybody! It is an identification of the believer into Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. (cf. Rom. 6:3-4; Eph. 1:19-20, 2:1)

And since this is a Baptist room, this is what I adhere to:

VII. Baptism and the Lord's Supper
Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper.
The Lord's Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members of the church, through partaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine, memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming.
Matthew 3:13-17; 26:26-30; 28:19-20; Mark 1:9-11; 14:22-26; Luke 3:21-22; 22:19-20; John 3:23; Acts 2:41-42; 8:35-39; 16:30-33; 20:7; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 10:16,21; 11:23-29; Colossians 2:12.

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#vii

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[JimmyV]

Thanks, I answered a question that was posed. However, several others demanded that I respond to their follow-up questions, even after I pointed out that they were off-topic. The main point is, and we can all agree, that each individual should continue to grow in his/her faith in Jesus and that includes a prayer, spiritual and intellectual.

 

[IisJustMe]

P.S. My infant Baptism washed away original sin from my soul and claimed me for Jesus Christ.

Aside from the fact that she is not leaving a faith, but a denomination within the same faith, your statement as highlighted here is one of several differences in what we believe about God and the processes He has put in place for salvation, and for public witness.

You are on a Baptist forum now. You knew when you entered here what our faith and message is, and you have politely and civilly made your differences known, so I have no problem with that. However, I must (I pray equally politely and civilly) disagree with your statement.

As an infant, neither you nor anyone else is capable of making a decision to follow Christ, which is the testimony of public baptism. Baptism washes nothing but the flesh. It testifies to a heart-change, something an infant neither needs, nor can decide for.

 

[prgallo]

I am not sure what point you are trying to make. The lives were saved at the request of another individual on their behalf.

I didn't assume the decision was made lightly, but this is a very basic Christian doctrine - Baptism is a Sacrament that removes original sin from the soul, thus there is no need (and cannot be performed) to rebaptise.
Because this is not understood, I believe the lady should continue to ask for the Holy Ghost to guide her and give herself time.

I understand the RCC position. It doesn't apply as it isn't actually based on scripture. Why would someone leaving the RCC be concerned about their beliefs anyway.

The point is their lives were saved, but they weren't "saved" or Christians.

 

[JimmyV]

Okay, but since this forum is not the place to make such statements I will not respond. Now I know what the Baptist faith thinks.

 

[ArataCPA]

Good Evening all,

I have quietly been looking at this thread evolve since I posed the original question. Although I think some (not all so don't get offended) have used this thread to have discussions that really didn't address my original question, I respect and appreciate all of your comments; and thank you to those of you who did stay on topic.

I think I need to clarify some things on my mom's part though, because some are making assumptions that are offending me and if they read the original comment carefully, they would have never even have said them:

1) My mother was not baptized as an infant. My grandmother was ORIGINALLY Baptist and allowed my mother and aunt to become Catholic because of a wonderful priest who became a family friend who wanted them to attend the Catholic School he was a part of. My mother was 7 and my aunt was 9 when this took place. Although most would disagree that she "knew" what she was doing, she did, and she still maintains that to this day. She knew Jesus was her Lord and Savior; she is the one who instilled the faith in me. My grandmother remained Baptist, but still studied the catechism. My grandmother did not view this as changing "faith", she viewed it as simply going to a church in her neighborhood and allowing my mother and aunt to attend a better school with the urging of her priest friend. Now my grandmother is passed away, so I cannot possibly ask her what was her rationale behind allowing my mother and aunt to be Catholic, but she obviously felt like it was the right decision at the time.

2) My mother's decision is not a hasty one. She has been going through a spiritual transformation for quite sometime, as well as myself. We have been making this journey together. We have numerous religious influences in our family (Catholic, Baptist, Jehovah's Witness, Muslim) and we have examined and carefully considered what all of our family members had to say. Despite our different beliefs, we respect and love each other very much, and we don't bicker over the details, although we do disagree. But getting back to what I was saying, this was not a hasty decision. My mother actually tried to start becoming a practicing Catholic again, but the priest she ran into down here (she was originally in NY as a child, she moved to VA when she was pregnant with me) was a disgrace and put a really bad taste in her mouth. Not saying that you can judge all Catholics by this man, I'm not saying that at all, but it drove her from the Catholic church for a L-O-N-G time. We both went through some hard times in our lives, and we were led to our local Baptist church by a family friend. We instantly felt at home. We have been attending for almost 4 years now, 1.5 years regularly, and after careful consideration, my son and I joined 3 months ago. My mother joined last Sunday. We are both extremely happy with our decisions. It is not that she hates the Catholic faith now, we both just found a worship place that we love and feel comfortable in.

3) Now, the "re-baptism" issue. We talked to our pastor about this. He said that the saving does not occur with getting dunked in water. As a matter of fact he said that you have a lot of people that go in a dry sinner, and the only change they have when they come up is that they are wet. The saving occurs with accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. That occured a L-O-N-G time ago with both me and my mother. He did say he would prefer for her to be immersed completely, considering when she was seven they just poured the water over her head, but he has accepted people into his flock in the past that have just been sprinkled (he used African Methodists as an example), and he did not pressure them into being re-baptized. They were accepted as full members of the Baptist church. When it came down to it, he said that it was a personal decision. The baptism is for the public, the change has already occured on the inside. He even went as far to say that if someone was on their deathbed and had never seen the inside of a church and had never been baptized, but had accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, they would be saved.

So in conclusion, my mother will not be getting re-baptized. She will be accepted as a official, full member of the first Sunday of September. She feels like her "Catholic" baptism was sufficient, and she felt like she would be throwing that experience away (which was deeply spiritual for her) if she did a "do-over". Once she talked to the pastor with me, she was convinced it wasn't necessary. However, I believe that if he said that she HAD to do it, she would have. But considering he said it was a personal decision, she isn't going to.

In my personal opinion, I would also prefer for her to be immersed like I was, but I don't think any less of her for not doing it. My sisters are joining as well, and they will be fully immersed, because they have not been baptized yet.

I'm not an expert, as a matter of fact, I am what my dear Pentecostal friend calls a "baby Christian", but sometimes I feel like we get too caught up in man's details, and we miss the overall point. But that is just my opinion, which I'm sure will stir up more controversy, LOL! But I welcome it, and I am thankful that a forum like this exists where we can ask questions and express our opinions freely.

I hope I have not offended, I just feel like I had to say something .

I love you all and bless you all, Catholic and Baptist, and all Christians alike.

Tara