Convert me?

[ChrisHallquist]

A question of my own - Mastah, if I understand you correctly, you're hoping to have someone use evidence to convince you. I've heard similar sentiments before, but I don't really understand them. How do you seek out convincing of something you don't believe, and how do you end up convinced after what sounds to me like an artificial process? I don't mean to be confrontational, just trying to understand the attitude.

 

[LadyNRA]

A question of my own - Mastah, if I understand you correctly, you're hoping to have someone use evidence to convince you. I've heard similar sentiments before, but I don't really understand them. How do you seek out convincing of something you don't believe, and how do you end up convinced after what sounds to me like an artificial process? I don't mean to be confrontational, just trying to understand the attitude.

I agree with you. You can't convince the unconvinced and antagonistic (even if they don't think they are and even if that feelling is mild). Only the Holy Spirit can draw a person. If he's not feeling drawn, then no amount of argument is going to convince him otherwise. This is why so many people don't turn to God until they've lost it all, hit bottom or whatever phrase people care to use. They suddenly realize that nothing THEY are doing is working, and possibly making things worse. They are finding man's solution to not be as helpful in their dilemma as they thought. And finally, that's the point when many non-believers are willing to hear the Holy Spirit calling. It's still up to them to open their hearts of course, but the ears are more open at that point than at any other.

 

[rollo]

I was 20 years old this was about 2 years ago now. I was worshiping God at chi alpha the christian ministry at wright state that I attend and I felt God telling me to take off my braces from my feet and dance for him.. Before this I could barely stand with those and had no feeling in my legs below the knee but I obayed and after worship I was standing fine and could feel the floor because I was like "the floor is cold" then it hit me that I was feeling this in my feet and I wept and my fiance now wife checked my back and I have a complete back bone from that night.

 

[ChrisHallquist]

LadyNRA- unfortunately, that's not the response I was hoping for. As much as I think it doesn't make sense, it seems to make sense to some (unless I've understood them) and I really would like to understand them.

 

[heron]

I was like "the floor is cold" then it hit me that I was feeling this in my feet and I wept and my fiance now wife checked my back and I have a complete back bone from that night.

Wow!

Well, we've gone around in a lot of discussion about openness, but I'm afraid the compilation of responses makes us appear exclusive. We're really not trying to dissuade anyone from learning more, or committing to Christ.

We're just trying to show that it's not about deciding that the Bible is right, but about a life commitment to follow Him. Saying yes is vowing to love, honor and cherish...not just agreeing to agree.

 

[Nadiine]

As of right now, I'm more or less an atheist. Although I want to be converted. I don't believe in a god. I also don't believe in creationism. I find evolution to do a much better job at explaining things.

So what I'm asking is for someone to convert me. This is you're chance to convert an atheist that's willing to change. What I want is people to Email me with whatever tricks they have that can show me 'the light'. If you have a question or statement that proves the existants of god, or disproves the existance of evolution, I want to hear it. If you have a friend that's good at this sort of thing, I want to hear what they have to say.

I would appreciate if you Emailed your responces to me . I ask this because I won't be able to look at these forums for a few days / weeks, although it shouldn't be a problem for me to read my Email. I won't respond to any of the Emails unless noted by the sender.

If this is in the wrong section of the forum, feel free to move it. I'm not looking to start a flame war.

Thank you, and I look forward to reading some Emails.

Hi,
Um, I believe if you TRULY wanted to convert, you would have.
THE PROOF AND EVIDENCES ALREADY EXIST... I have the SAME information you have about God, the Bible, History, archaology, prophecy,... yet I believe, and you don't. It's more than enough for me to accept, yet not near enough for you...

So, when we both have access to identical information, what's lacking? YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF THAT EXISTING INFORMATION - not that the information/evidences don't exist.

People can't 'convert you' either. If the info. you HAVE isn't enough, then I'm afraid you have chosen what you want to disbelieve (just as I choose to believe it).
The Bible ALSO says salvation is by FAITH.
FAITH isn't God tangibly proving Himself to us (altho we do have plenty of that to back up scripture!).

I'll offer some verses that cover this subject in different aspects:
John 12:37 But tho He had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on Him.
John 6:30-60, Johhn 10:24-29, Mt. 12:39, John 4:48, 1 Cor 2:14, Mt 11:25, 2 Cor 4:3, John 8:42-47, Mt. 13:13, Eph. 4:18, John 5:38-40, John 5:45-47, Rom. 1:19...

​

Man cannot convert you (or anyone else) just with some proofs... that's already evident by your lack of conversion by all the evidences we do have.
Mt. 13:13 & Eph. 4:18 says a hard/calloused heart keeps us from conversion - it's an inward spiritual issue. not of tangible facts.
& John 12:37 shows us that even SEEING doesn't make us believing.

​

thanks for your q., hope this helps?​

 

[Key]

I was 20 years old this was about 2 years ago now. I was worshiping God at chi alpha the christian ministry at wright state that I attend and I felt God telling me to take off my braces from my feet and dance for him.. Before this I could barely stand with those and had no feeling in my legs below the knee but I obayed and after worship I was standing fine and could feel the floor because I was like "the floor is cold" then it hit me that I was feeling this in my feet and I wept and my fiance now wife checked my back and I have a complete back bone from that night.

Awsome Post! God Bless your Healing! AMEN!

All Praise the Lord God Almighty!

God Bless

Key

 

[Sketcher]

Well, thi will end up in a debate. My argument would be, I hear everyon say "things can't jut be, something / domeone had to make it" a in, the universe HAD to have been made, because what was around before the universe. Ok, let's accept that, EVERYTHING must be made... Then what about God? who / what made him? Every time I've asked that I've always gotten "he just always was"... I could go on and on. But screw it. I guess the holy spirit isn't coming to me . But, if you wanna have a good ol fassion debate, feel free to Email me (not starting a mailing list) or contact me on AIM and we'll have a good ol' time.

Here's the deal. Even if someone created God, then, who created that creator? And who created him? Eventually you're going to have to go back to someone or something who wasn't created and always was, so he could create something.

 

[ebia]

Here's the deal. Even if someone created God, then, who created that creator? And who created him? Eventually you're going to have to go back to someone or something who wasn't created and always was, so he could create something.

Or you have an "infinite" number of increasingling high level creators.

 

[Sketcher]

Or you have an "infinite" number of increasingling high level creators.

Which is equally mind-boggling as a being that had no beginning. Because SOMETHING had no beginning, in order for there to be an infinity.

 

[ebia]

Which is equally mind-boggling as a being that had no beginning. Because SOMETHING had no beginning, in order for there to be an infinity.

Um, no; that's the point. If the series is infinite then there is no (in this case) beginning.

(If you get the opportunity, read Little Harmonic Labyrinth in Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid (Douglas R Hofstadter).

 

[Obi]

Hello TheMastahC:

"My argument would be, I hear everyon say "things can't jut be, something / domeone had to make it" a in, the universe HAD to have been made, because what was around before the universe. Ok, let's accept that, EVERYTHING must be made... Then what about God? who / what made him? Every time I've asked that I've always gotten "he just always was"..."

An Answers In Genesis article called "If God Created The Universe, Then Who Created God?" available at <answersingenesis.org/tj/v12/i1/universe.asp>, which answers your question. Just copy and paste the Internet address in your browser and click "Go." This article is apart from their very popular seller, "The Answers Book."

They explain it much better than what I could and perfectly address your objection.

"I could go on and on. But screw it. I guess the holy spirit isn't coming to me."

I wonder why when you say things like this:

"But, if you wanna have a good ol fassion debate, feel free to Email me (not starting a mailing list) or contact me on AIM and we'll have a good ol' time."

The Holy Spirit can only convict you if you are willing to listen to what He says. It is appearent that you have no real desire or want to change and that your heart may be hardened somewhat against His promptings. It seems to me that you may just be more interested in a debate from the above rather than finding truth.

But then again, I could be wrong as I do not know your heart. Jesus does say that whoever shall seek will find (Luke 11:10). I would encourage you, if you are really interesting in learning more about Christianity and some evidence for it, to research information by apologetics organizations like Christian Answers Network <christiananswers.net>, Tekton Apologetics Ministries <tektonics.org>, Got Questions Ministries <gotquestions.org>, Answers In Genesis <answersingenesis.org>, Institue for Creation Research <icr.org>, among many others. These are some of the ones that I know of.

I would also invite you to grab a copy of "The Heavenly Man" by a Chinese Christian named "Brother Yun" and have a read through that and how God provided for him and was with him throughout his life of persecution in China and then tell me that "God does not exist." It is an absolutely fasinating read. Not only the faithfulness and goodness of God to Brother Yun, but the miracles that He performed (for example, He was with Brother Yun as he - being crippled in the legs - made his way past several guards who didn't even "register" him in their sight and walked right out of one of China's maximum security jail! Appearently, two guards lost their jobs that day because of his escape. Try and explain half of the stuff that he writes in his book (many of which has been also recorded and observed by independent persons) with your atheistic mind set.

Anyway, it's getting late (almost midnight) and my feet are freezing so I had better go now.

From,
Obi.

 

[johnpk]

Or you have an "infinite" number of increasingling high level creators.

Stealing something i just heard, but if you have an infinite number of points all lined up how can you get to a specific point in the sequence, if you have to go through every point before that specific point, which would of course be an infinite number of points, hence how would we get to this creator if there are an infinite number of creators, before this one?

Also about the point on evoloution, I think theres a fair bit of evoloution that can be seen in the Bible, although its not evoloution from a pile of random goo, but from the perfect creatures God created before we messed up and introduced death and probably genetic mutation.

Although I doubt you can argue anyone into Heaven, considering things like this maybe helpful to people considering who God is and if he is who the Bible says he is, and whether to say yes to Him. It is a huge, probably the bigest desision you could ever make.

(Ps you may note that I'm not good at absolutes or spelling.)

 

[ebia]

Stealing something i just heard, but if you have an infinite number of points all lined up how can you get to a specific point in the sequence, if you have to go through every point before that specific point, which would of course be an infinite number of points, hence how would we get to this creator if there are an infinite number of creators, before this one?

Not a problem as long as each creator works twice as fast as the one he creates; see the Godel-Escher-Bach reference I gave (and, for that matter, the 'solutions' to Zeno's paradoxes).

Also about the point on evoloution, I think theres a fair bit of evoloution that can be seen in the Bible, although its not evoloution from a pile of random goo, but from the perfect creatures God created before we messed up and introduced death and probably genetic mutation.

Evolution isn't from a "random pile of goo", but from the first lifeform.

 

[johnpk]

Not a problem as long as each creator works twice as fast as the one he creates; see the Godel-Escher-Bach reference I gave (and, for that matter, the 'solutions' to Zeno's paradoxes).

I'll have a look but it doesn't seem to make sense to me, each creation is still takeing some amount of time, and so would still take an infinite amount of time to get through this infinite number of creators to get to this one. You would never reach that infinite speed that would be required for time to become irelevant.

Evolution isn't from a "random pile of goo", but from the first lifeform.

Not realy my point, but I guess your right, though the first life form was supposed to be produced from that random pile of chemicals, at least thats how I understand it. Obviously I'd disagree that this actualy happened, but I think its a fair over simplification of part of the therory.

 

[Tenebrae]

As of right now, I'm more or less an atheist. Although I want to be converted. I don't believe in a god. I also don't believe in creationism. I find evolution to do a much better job at explaining things.

So what I'm asking is for someone to convert me. This is you're chance to convert an atheist that's willing to change. What I want is people to Email me with whatever tricks they have that can show me 'the light'. If you have a question or statement that proves the existants of god, or disproves the existance of evolution, I want to hear it. If you have a friend that's good at this sort of thing, I want to hear what they have to say.

I would appreciate if you Emailed your responces to me . I ask this because I won't be able to look at these forums for a few days / weeks, although it shouldn't be a problem for me to read my Email. I won't respond to any of the Emails unless noted by the sender.

If this is in the wrong section of the forum, feel free to move it. I'm not looking to start a flame war.

Thank you, and I look forward to reading some Emails.

I cant convert anyone

Thats Gods job. Simply, you broke Gods law, and the senetence for the is death, The Good news is that jesus paid the price so you dont have to

Kind of like wearing a parachute in an airplane, wont do anything in the airplane, but when the airplane crashes in 20 minutes, you'll be glad you had the parachute

Impressed. Snorted coffee over your monitor yet? like I said, I cant covert anyone, thats Gods job, I can only tell you about the good news

 

[ebia]

I'll have a look but it doesn't seem to make sense to me, each creation is still takeing some amount of time, and so would still take an infinite amount of time to get through this infinite number of creators to get to this one. You would never reach that infinite speed that would be required for time to become irelevant.

Mathematics becomes decidely non-intuitive when you get beyond the finite. I didn't really mean to drag the thread off-topic though - it was just a light hearted quip by someone who finds transfinite mathematics facinating.

Not realy my point, but I guess your right, though the first life form was supposed to be produced from that random pile of chemicals, at least thats how I understand it.Obviously I'd disagree that this actualy happened, but I think its a fair over simplification of part of the therory

The Theory of Evolution doesn't deal with how the first life-form came about. The origin of life is NOT part of the theory of Evolution at all.


.[/quote]

 

[bella_song]

As of right now, I'm more or less an atheist. Although I want to be converted. I don't believe in a god. I also don't believe in creationism. I find evolution to do a much better job at explaining things.

So what I'm asking is for someone to convert me. This is you're chance to convert an atheist that's willing to change. What I want is people to Email me with whatever tricks they have that can show me 'the light'. If you have a question or statement that proves the existants of god, or disproves the existance of evolution, I want to hear it. If you have a friend that's good at this sort of thing, I want to hear what they have to say.

I would appreciate if you Emailed your responces to me . I ask this because I won't be able to look at these forums for a few days / weeks, although it shouldn't be a problem for me to read my Email. I won't respond to any of the Emails unless noted by the sender.

If this is in the wrong section of the forum, feel free to move it. I'm not looking to start a flame war.

Thank you, and I look forward to reading some Emails.

I love the study of creationism, I find human origins fascinating, if you are really interested in learning about I suggest reading "The Case For a Creator" by Lee Strobel. There are lots of other great books, but this one is a good place to start. If you are interested, I could recommend other books that explain things really well.

For the record, yes I am a nerd, and I do love books!

 

[brinny]

As of right now, I'm more or less an atheist. Although I want to be converted. I don't believe in a god. I also don't believe in creationism. I find evolution to do a much better job at explaining things.

So what I'm asking is for someone to convert me. This is you're chance to convert an atheist that's willing to change. What I want is people to Email me with whatever tricks they have that can show me 'the light'. If you have a question or statement that proves the existants of god, or disproves the existance of evolution, I want to hear it. If you have a friend that's good at this sort of thing, I want to hear what they have to say.

I would appreciate if you Emailed your responces to me . I ask this because I won't be able to look at these forums for a few days / weeks, although it shouldn't be a problem for me to read my Email. I won't respond to any of the Emails unless noted by the sender.

If this is in the wrong section of the forum, feel free to move it. I'm not looking to start a flame war.

Thank you, and I look forward to reading some Emails.

Why do you want to be converted?

 

[fitmom]

Why do you want to be converted?

Good question, very good question