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Conversion to Islam

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DarkNLovely

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJB4
Honestly though, no disrespect. Just had to say it. You're a fundamentalist Orthodox if ever their was one.

The Truth must not be compromised.

Quote:
I don't know anyone on TAW that well, but you're the only one I can think of that would hope that anyone was roasting in hell.
You don't know much about Mohammed, then. He married a 9 year old girl, had 20 wives, owned slaves and had sexual relations with his female slaves, killed and tortured people, and committed many other atrocities. What's more, he told his followers to imitate his lifestyle (sunnah). "Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example" (Quran, 33:21). Muslims all around the world look to Mohammed as a good example of how to live. No wonder we see all the atrocities committed by Muslims.

Now, do you seriously think that someone like that would be in heaven? It's possible, of course, for all things are possible with God, but VERY unlikely.

To see the real side of Islam, watch the film Not Without My Daughter. It's the true story of Betty Mahmoody, the wife of an Iranian living in America, who returns to Iran with their daughter for a visit and then intends to stay there. Exposed to Islam again, he becomes a totally different person, and Betty's life in Iran is absolutely terrible.

Oh my gosh! What the heck happened?
 
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DarkNLovely

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That was between AJB4 and MickArch! WHAT IS GOING ON!?

MichArch!

You are very confused! Please don't make that desicion right now. As a matter fact, since you are obviously having problem deciding things, just do what we tell you! DON'T CONVERT TO ISLAM!
 
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DarkNLovely

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Ok. I'm done!

You shouldn't waste your time with debates like this. You are not strong enough in your faith (are you even a catechumen yet?) It is likely that through this debate you will be the one that loses, because you aren't well-grounded in your faith. These people so strongly believe what they do that it is almost impossible to bring them to the truth. I have shown Protestants how the filioque clause of the Creed distorts the Holy Trinity and denigrates the Holy Spirit, but they still believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

It's not us that converts. God converts people. The best thing to do would be to pray for them and ask God to help them come to understand the truth.

AJB4, are you doing any spiritual reading? It is important to read the writings of the Holy Fathers of the Church as well as the Holy Scriptures. A good place to start would be the Catechetial Lectures of St. Cyril of Jerusalem or An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by St. John of Damascus. Both can be found on http://www.trueorthodoxy.info/cat_index.shtml (don't worry about the site - the writings are from the saints and have not been changed). An (almost) complete list of the writings of the Holy Fathers can be found on www.newadvent.org/fathers (again, don't worry that the site is a Catholic one, it's the writings that are important). Also worth reading (if you can find it!) is the Philokalia.

AND:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orthosdoxa
Right.

And the problem isn't even being Old Calendarist - I'm quite sympathetic to the idea of OC, personally. The problem is being schismatic. He could still be canonically Orthodox AND be on the OC. Voila!


Yes, but the canonical Orthodox churches are in communion with the Patriarch of Costantinople, who thinks Islam is great and even quotes from the Koran. Why should he quote that satanic rubbish when there are plenty of the Holy Fathers that he could quote?

And if you support ecumenism, that all "Christian" groups are good and have truth, why are you so opposed to traditional, old-calendar Orthodoxy? We are Christian, too.

I am flabbergasted! I had never really had much convo with you before and I didn't know what your posts were like. You have to see the 180 you are doing right now. That has to scare you. Please see this as an attempt to try to make you realize that in truth, you do not need to make this decision at all. It also seems that you are very intellectual and are perhaps struggling with some issues of pride, but I guess that's another issue, though it may have something to do with these flip-flops. You seem to not be humble enough to the will or Truth of God to stay in His Truth because your "intellect" leads you evey which way. Your fear of being wrong is greater than your ability to be patient until greater Truths of Christ are revealed to you. Does that make sense? If I had to say what's really wrong, you are not grounded. A double minded man is unstable in all their ways and you are being tossed and trampled by every wave because you simply do not know who you are, or who the God you say you believe in is. Unil then, your roller coaster ride will not stop.

Ok. Now I'm done.
 
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Mrs.Sidhe

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To the OP: As someone who has had significant spiritual and religious unrest and questioning and knowing how painful that was for me it irks me a bit that someone can so be so flippant in conversion--simply because one place will Chrismate you faster and your fiance' likes the falafel there. ( I take conversion very seriously) I'm sorry but that just doesn't seem like a good reason. And reading your other blog (not here the link you give in your profile) you don't seem really grounded in any faith really well to be able to make a steadfast decision. I've read other posts and you seem to gravitate towards a very conservative form of Orthodoxy which is fine but you have went from "I'm more Orthodox than so-so" to attacking Christianity and wanting to be Muslim. I just don't understand this very well at all.

And yes if you read my blog it will say in great deal my spiritual/religious conflicts...so maybe I'm not a person who should be telling you this but you seriously just need to slow down...maybe...possibly....:confused:
 
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Lady Bug

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Orthosdoxa, I am not Orthodox per se (well I have been trying to figure out information about it though, and somehow I can never stumble upon an easy answer, or guide) but I happened to stumble across this thread about someone converting to Islam and I just could not help but participate.

The thing is, my mother who was a non-practicing Catholic before she married my dad (who is Muslim), "converted" for her spouse. I think that converting for one's spouse is a bunch of malarkey because that type of "conversion" is not done in correct judgment. Anyway it just led to so many problems that I have neither the stamina nor motivation to even elaborate on it. Also, I have things to do offline!
 
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nutroll

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I talked with my girlfriend this weekend, and she told me that she would still marry me even if I was Muslim. That has been the main thing stopping me converting to Islam - I don't want to lose her. She is a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, and I told her that she could still be Christian, as Islam allows Muslims to marry "People of the Book". Furthermore, I think we could get married as soon as I accept Islam, because marriage in Islam is simple, the writing of a contract between the husband and wife. We could then have the wedding party (walimah) back in Malaysia, where she is from.

I can’t say that I am the least bit surprised by this. When you mentioned the Jehovah’s Witnesses at your school, it was obvious to me that you would never follow through on becoming Orthodox, and that you would continue looking for more and more severe fundamentalist religions. I do wonder why you would want to marry a Christian woman if you are planning on being a Muslim. Will you insist on her covering herself at all times? Will you insist on her converting to Islam with you? It seems inconceivable that you would be able to be a muslim without insisting on everyone around you being muslim, and just as fundamentalist as you. If she had any sense, she would leave you rather than unite herself to someone who rejects Christ.

I think that I am going to become a Muslim, but I'm going to do quite a bit more reading before I do.

Yeah, why be rash about it? A week from now something more authoritative might show up on your radar that you can hopelessly cling to rather than ever really finding truth and peace for yourself.

The mosque here is just 5 mins away from the university, and I have no classes in the afternoons, so I'll go to the mosque library to read the Qur'an and to read more about Islam. The mosque is pretty much open during the day in Ramadan.

What would be the point of spending all your free time filling your head with Muslim teachings and not converting right now? I mean you made up your mind the day that you first talked to a group of muslims, and any reading you do is only going to further convince you. The only thing that will convince you that Islam is not true is another, more authoritative religion. And the cycle will begin again.

I know I could convert right now, though, which is far better than the Orthodox system, where a priest tells you when you can convert and be baptized. Apparently your prayers aren't as strong until you're baptized, so it seems that the priest is withholding the full power of the grace of God (glorious and exalted is He).

You know why the “Orthodox system” is better? Because it prevents someone like you from stumbling upon the truth, deciding to give it a shot because they haven’t found anything better yet, then receiving the Holy Spirit, and partaking of the Holy, precious Body and Blood of the only Begotten Son of God and then turning around and rejecting it and spitting upon it. If Islam had anything Holy, they might keep people from flippantly joining. Instead, they just make sure that you can’t leave once you’re in it. It turns out that your sinful, ecumenist priest is a wonderful, intelligent man because he prevented you from desecrating yourself and the Body and Blood of Christ.

My girlfriend has also talked about being baptized in the Coptic Church, because 1) the priest might baptize her quicker than the Antiochian Orthodox priest and 2) she likes the falafels there.

I’m so relieved to see how dedicated she is to Orthodoxy that she would make impulsive decisions based on fried chickpeas, and would marry a man who has rejected Christ.

Because it seems to be the truth. To worship God (glorious and exalted is He) alone and not to associate partners with Him in worship. No one has the right to be invoked, supplicated, prayed to or shown any act of worship but God alone.

That has to be the worst reasoning I’ve ever heard. I could make up a religion today that would seem to be the truth. All you have to do is figure out what people want to hear. You make the religion match what people want to believe anyway, and they will believe it. And you know that we worship God alone, but because you have decided that we don’t fit the bill for you, you can slander us with abandon.


But I am excited that my girlfriend and I can get married as soon as I convert.
Neither of you is Orthodox, you could go to any civil authority and get married. That would be better than converting to Islam so you can satisfy your lusts.


As I said, I am not the least bit surprised by any of this. What is frustrating, however, is that you seem unwilling to even hear what others are trying to tell you. You have moved on, just as you will move on from this to something else (assuming that you are able to), and you have no more use for what any of us say. You have turned away your heart from Christ, and nothing we can say will convince you. That being said, I would appreciate it if you would change your faith icon and remove the icon from your avatar. If you should ever get your head on straight, we are more than willing to accept you back, but for now, I think we’ve admonished you repeatedly, and now we need to have nothing more to do with you.

 
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Dorothea

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Uh....I can't think of anything that would sound nice. My first thought was "my condolences," which isn't nice. I will pray for God to reveal to you the correct path, which is through His Son.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Bad news: If Michael stayed in Islam for long, he is bound to become a suicide bomber because he always goes to the most extremist branch of religion of which he's a member at that precise moment.

Mosquerade-X.gif
 
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zhilan

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Michael,

Do you and your girlfriend realize that if you become Muslim she will not be able to become Orthodox and ESPECIALLY will not be able to become Coptic. Copts are not even allowed to marry Catholics, you think she will be able to marry a Muslim? You are forcing her to choose between you and the religion she believes in. I pray that she maintains her faith and chooses Orthodoxy.

Although I must say, I think there are more intelligent ways of communicating our feelings and concerns to Michael than stupid cartoons. If I were an evangelical considering conversion to Orthodoxy and my fellow evangelicals gave me Jack Chick to show me I was wrong, I would think they were idiots and disregard what they said.

Orthodoxy has truth on its side, we don't need to resort to childish and stupid cartoons or hate mongering. We don't need to attack other faiths because our faith is the TRUTH and the truth is not afraid or insecure and can stand on it's own merits.
 
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VickiY

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If I were you, I'd do some serious thinking. I'd start with thinking about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and how this is calledthe one unforgivable sin.

From there, I'd go on to think about what it is in your own life that makes you so insecure that you seek for someone to tell you what to do constantly, and further, who will tell your entire family to obey you at all times or risk death. Clearly, you are very insecure indeed if you think this is the only way to command the respect of others.

I'd also go on to think about how it is not the external trappings of belief that matter, but what concerns God is your heart, and your faith.

I'd also go on to think about why you are in such an all-fire hurry to marry a girl that you do not love. And, no, you do NOT love her if you deliberately cause her to do something that will prevent her from ever being baptised in any (Eastern or Oriental) Orthodox Church. Had she not been inquiring before, it may have been permitted that she convert even if she was married to a Muslim, but marrying a muslim while in the inquirer stage? Nope. No priest will allow that. And if she married you after she had converted, she'd be excommunicated. Does love choose to damn the person it loves, and separate them from their God? Stop being selfish and grow up.

Also...Tell your gf that you can buy packages of falafel mix in any grocery store, but you cannot buy belief. You need to earn it through patience and understanding.

Given that neither of you seems to have processed that, I can only add that you'd better be sure, because if you decide against Islam later, they will hunt you down and kill you, and your family.

Do some serious thinking, and DO consider medication. It might help with your mood swings and extremism.
 
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Vasileios

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I'll echo nutroll: Thank God for your priest.
Michael just look at your posts. Compare your ideas on Orthodoxy some weeks ago and Islam today. If you seriously cannot see how terribly shallow your approach is then there is no point in having any discussion at all.

A serious inquiry, a serious search into one's soul cannot manifest by being so fanatic at the very first steps. A serious profound inquiry cannot manifest in swapping diametrically opposed religions in a matter of months.

You are blowing with the wind Michael and I have to tell you, the wind these days blows towards materialism and despair. When the fascination wears off, WHAT WILL YOU DO?

I can only hope you keep Christ and Orthodoxy somewhere in a corner of your soul. It will be the only thing to save you when you despair. And you will.
 
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MichaelNZ

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Many of you seem to have many misconceptions about Islam. I had many of these misconceptions myself, as DarkNLovely pointed out. Then someone made du'a to open my heart to Islam, and I talked about these misconceptions with Muslims. I collected a translation of the Holy Qur'an and some of their literature with the intention of using it to refute Islam, but then I actually read it and it touched me. All these attacks on Islam that various forum members have posted have all been refuted many times by Muslims.

However, I'm not going to convert just yet, as there are some things I need to work out, and other things that I need to discuss with the sheikh. I am fasting for Ramadan, though, and maybe I'll convert at the end of Ramadan.
 
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Catherineanne

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I talked with my girlfriend this weekend, and she told me that she would still marry me even if I was Muslim. That has been the main thing stopping me converting to Islam - I don't want to lose her. She is a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, and I told her that she could still be Christian, as Islam allows Muslims to marry "People of the Book". Furthermore, I think we could get married as soon as I accept Islam, because marriage in Islam is simple, the writing of a contract between the husband and wife. We could then have the wedding party (walimah) back in Malaysia, where she is from.

I wish you and your girlfriend well on your journey of faith, Michael. I am touched that your love for your girlfriend is so strong, that you hesitate to allow your own personal decisions of faith to risk damaging your relationship. This seems to me an excellent start to your life together.

All I would say is, do not be in a hurry. You have a lifetime ahead of you, and if you are going to marry, then you must consider not only your own faith, but also those of your children. I would suggest you discuss these issues with your Imam, and with your girlfriend's priest. You may not want to make any decisions about this now, but it is sensible to think about them. It is hard enough to make a marriage work when the couple share their faith. I personally think it very difficult indeed to reconcile a marriage which contains two different faiths; maybe fair enough where the couple are not particularly devout, but where they have strong faith, there will always be an added tension to pull the other person into their own side.

You are, of course, free to choose your own faith. I am not sure that choosing the quickest and easiest is the way I would personally go, and having met Our Lord, I could never personally turn my back on him, or take away from him any of the attributes that Scripture gives to him, and which are attested by our church. But it is your choice.

May God bless you both. :wave:
 
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DarkNLovely

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Ditto Jacobs post! Like, a million times ditto!

May I stress, this may not be forever. You are 22! Do you have any idea how young that is? We are babies! I think about how wrong I was when I was 16! I can't imagine what I'm gonna think of myself whaen I'm 26! Also, how old is she? Again, she may be lured by a Christian husbend. Keep that in mind. Realizing misconceptions and converting because of them are two totally different things. I am very touched by certain religious lit I read, but do I convert or change my whole ethos? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

It's so interesting, because you have the opposite problem as me; you are wishy-washy and I'm just plain stubborn! LOL! That being said, this could still just be a phase.
 
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AureateDawn

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Many of the misconceptions that you all have about Islam have been answered on WhyIslam.org forums and LI Islamic Forum. I'd advise you to read them.

When I was looking into Islam I went to those same places. They can be quite convincing, but there were several things I just couldn't get over that made no sense.

Again, Sorry, and my prayers.
 
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