Controlling

[blackribbon]

I have authority over my dependent children but that doesn't mean I "control" them. They are not the same thing. As long as my children execute decent decision making, I don't tell them how to think or tell them what to do for the majority of the time.

In my marriage, my husband as head delegated certain areas of decision making to me as his wife and mother of his children. He didn't ever "control" me because we had a respect based marriage. Did I always agree with him...or he with me?...heck no...but that didn't mean he "pulled rank". If it was my area to make decisions...then it was my area. He trusted me to make good decisions even if they didn't match the ones he would have made.

 

[Deidre32]

I will agree, men who are leaders and take initiative...are most appealing to me in a natural kind of way. That said, they have to display a conduct that warrants respect though. I feel sad for women who are married to men that treat them poorly, yet they submit to their husbands, simply because they feel to not to do so, is sinful in God's eyes. God is watching, and He never meant for men to take advantage of their positions as leaders in their homes. They need to always try to be worthy of the title.

 

[GraceDriven]

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:" - Ephesians 5:22-29

That is what I live by. And if you don't like it, then you aren't a very good Christian. So sure, you could say that the man is to control his wife in some regards but people automatically assume this means abuse. But if you read further, you will see that the man is to love his wife as Christ loved us! That means we are to cherish them more than anything (aside from God) and be willing to sacrifice our very lives for them.

I can give you countless examples of families that fell apart because the wife was not submissive and wanted to make the decisions. Again, that's not to say that the man is to ignore the wife's input in matters or not ever allow her charge over things but that ultimately, there needs to be an understanding and respect for the man as the head of the family.

I know it's not politically correct in this day and age but traditionally families have always been this way. It's only with the modern feminist movement that women have been trying to take charge of everything. And I would argue that women naturally want a good man in charge but they have insecurities developed from a bad father or bad boyfriend or from watching the stereotypical bumbling madman on TV so they try to take charge as a protection mechanism.

And hopefully I'm not offending any girls on here but let me just give you a little tip. If you wonder why guys always seem to break up with you and go for other girls, check to see if you are controlling. Almost every time, the new girl is someone who is more submissive and feminine.

You seem to blame the whole feminist movement for breakdown of the traditional family. You blame the bad father or bad boyfriend but where are the "real" men out here? And don't forget some men like women who work......
I am not married to a Christian; however, he loves to quote Christian scripture. There is only so far where submissiveness crosses over to abuse.

 

[blackribbon]

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:" - Ephesians 5:22-29

That is what I live by. And if you don't like it, then you aren't a very good Christian. So sure, you could say that the man is to control his wife in some regards but people automatically assume this means abuse. But if you read further, you will see that the man is to love his wife as Christ loved us! That means we are to cherish them more than anything (aside from God) and be willing to sacrifice our very lives for them.

I can give you countless examples of families that fell apart because the wife was not submissive and wanted to make the decisions. Again, that's not to say that the man is to ignore the wife's input in matters or not ever allow her charge over things but that ultimately, there needs to be an understanding and respect for the man as the head of the family.

I know it's not politically correct in this day and age but traditionally families have always been this way. It's only with the modern feminist movement that women have been trying to take charge of everything. And I would argue that women naturally want a good man in charge but they have insecurities developed from a bad father or bad boyfriend or from watching the stereotypical bumbling madman on TV so they try to take charge as a protection mechanism.

And hopefully I'm not offending any girls on here but let me just give you a little tip. If you wonder why guys always seem to break up with you and go for other girls, check to see if you are controlling. Almost every time, the new girl is someone who is more submissive and feminine.

Do you really want a wife who calls you to make a decision on which laundry detergent to buy?...at least unless you are in charge of doing the family laundry. I say the Prov 31 woman is a woman who can think for herself and has good business sense without her husband micro-managing her life. I say that a wise man selects a wise woman that he respects and trusts more than looking for one who is submissive as her primary trait.

 

[Jack of Spades]

Why would anyone wish to be with someone who isn't their own person, though? I get what you're saying, but at the end of the day, dating someone who turns into your yes person is rather boring.

Are you saying that person who is controlling/submissive is not being their own person? I don't see it that way. People are different.

I have authority over my dependent children but that doesn't mean I "control" them. They are not the same thing. As long as my children execute decent decision making, I don't tell them how to think or tell them what to do for the majority of the time.

Well, we use different terminology then and I won't argue about it. I don't mean that "control" is always a bad word, for example, having level of control over your underage kids is desirable. There is controlling for sake of being in control, and then there is justified controlling.

That is what I live by. And if you don't like it, then you aren't a very good Christian.

I don't remember ever claiming to be one.

I know it's not politically correct in this day and age but traditionally families have always been this way. It's only with the modern feminist movement that women have been trying to take charge of everything. And I would argue that women naturally want a good man in charge but they have insecurities developed from a bad father or bad boyfriend or from watching the stereotypical bumbling madman on TV so they try to take charge as a protection mechanism.

And hopefully I'm not offending any girls on here but let me just give you a little tip. If you wonder why guys always seem to break up with you and go for other girls, check to see if you are controlling. Almost every time, the new girl is someone who is more submissive and feminine.

Oh dear, I think it's time to get some popcorn...

 

[GraceDriven]

Are you saying that person who is controlling/submissive is not being their own person? I don't see it that way. People are different.




Well, we use different terminology then and I won't argue about it. I don't mean that "control" is always a bad word, for example, having level of control over your underage kids is desirable. There is controlling for sake of being in control, and then there is justified controlling.




I don't remember ever claiming to be one.




Oh dear, I think it's time to get some popcorn...

No popcorn needed. There are women hating organizations that would like to start this fire. No one is going to win.

 

[GraceDriven]

The last few generations of men are nothing like the men of the generation before mine. The whole feminist movement might have some blame. But be careful about putting the full blame on it....

 

[GraceDriven]

By the way I have been married 20 years....16 years of hell.

 

[Bristecom]

You seem to blame the whole feminist movement for breakdown of the traditional family. You blame the bad father or bad boyfriend but where are the "real" men out here? And don't forget some men like women who work......
I am not married to a Christian; however, he loves to quote Christian script. There is only so far where submissiveness crosses over to abuse.

Where are the real men? Modern women have mostly destroyed them. I've seen so many men become submissive, weak, slaves to women because the women would not allow the man to be the authority in any way. I could give you an example of my own family where my mom would call the police any time she wanted to win an argument and eventually kicked everyone out of our home and took ownership of everything and then started messing about with other people. The conditions of my dad's return was that he become her total slave. Needless to say, our family was completely destroyed by this.

Or I could give you an example of a lady I worked with recently who had a good husband who lost his job down here and got another offer up north but she didn't want to move back up north where their family was and where they had a paid off house. So she got herself a job down here and divorced him and took majority ownership of his family owned home and the kids. Of course, she immediately starts sleeping with everyone at work and having people pity her because her husband wouldn't just get a job down here and do everything she wanted. Modern society says she's the victim but I say, she's in the wrong and her husband, who was once a "real" man, has been turned into another mere shadow of a man.

Men naturally desire respect and authority. And while it can certainly be said that many men DO NOT deserve this respect and abuse their authority, when women become the head of the household (or relationship), men lose their identity and end up feeling weak and confused. So yes, I do blame the feminist movement. It is an unBiblical, unGodly, family destroying abomination.

 

[Bristecom]

I don't remember ever claiming to be one.

Well news flash buddy, you're on a Christian forum.

 

[Bristecom]

Do you really want a wife who calls you to make a decision on which laundry detergent to buy?...at least unless you are in charge of doing the family laundry. I say the Prov 31 woman is a woman who can think for herself and has good business sense without her husband micro-managing her life. I say that a wise man selects a wise woman that he respects and trusts more than looking for one who is submissive as her primary trait.

You misunderstand me. I said that the man can delegate things to the woman. Shopping for groceries and stuff is something that most men leave the women to do. Don't take things to extremes or out of perspective.

 

[GraceDriven]

You misunderstand me. I said that the man can delegate things to the woman. Shopping for groceries and stuff is something that most men leave the women to do. Don't take things to extremes or out of perspective.

But women do work and some men like a woman who does. There should shouldn't be a gender division of chores.

 

[High Fidelity]

Trying to change someone can be good or bad.

Changing them in to something or someone you want them to be, not good.

But let's assume, for example, they have a sinful lifestyle. Let's go with getting drunk. Drunkenness is a sin, so would I prefer they stop doing it? Absolutely. That's out of love.

 

[Bristecom]

But women do work and some men like a women who does. There should shouldn't be a gender division of chores.

A man can delicate a woman to earn money too. But I believe that our bodies and minds are naturally best suited for certain tasks. Especially when you have children, it is much better to have the woman stay home and raise them and tend to the house and have the man work the laborious jobs and earn the money and protect them. Women today think that it is degrading to do that but in reality, raising children and taking care of a home and such is an extremely important task. If I were to have a family, I would want my children to be home-schooled too so I would rely on my wife to be intelligent enough to teach them everything as well.

And as men are best suited for being in authority and working jobs; women naturally want to raise children. That's why even when women don't want children, they still at least get pets to raise to fulfill that desire. Otherwise, they will get depressed or delusional. It is our God-given nature.

 

[blackribbon]

Where are the real men? Modern women have mostly destroyed them. I've seen so many men become submissive, weak, slaves to women because the women would not allow the man to be the authority in any way. I could give you an example of my own family where my mom would call the police any time she wanted to win an argument and eventually kicked everyone out of our home and took ownership of everything and then started messing about with other people. The conditions of my dad's return was that he become her total slave. Needless to say, our family was completely destroyed by this.

Or I could give you an example of a lady I worked with recently who had a good husband who lost his job down here and got another offer up north but she didn't want to move back up north where their family was and where they had a paid off house. So she got herself a job down here and divorced him and took majority ownership of his family owned home and the kids. Of course, she immediately starts sleeping with everyone at work and having people pity her because her husband wouldn't just get a job down here and do everything she wanted. Modern society says she's the victim but I say, she's in the wrong and her husband, who was once a "real" man, has been turned into another mere shadow of a man.

Men naturally desire respect and authority. And while it can certainly be said that many men DO NOT deserve this respect and abuse their authority, when women become the head of the household (or relationship), men lose their identity and end up feeling weak and confused. So yes, I do blame the feminist movement. It is an unBiblical, unGodly, family destroying abomination.

If women and the feminist movement have destroyed real men, then you are implying that women have that kind of power and are the stronger sex. If you look through history, this is a common problem with lots of different reasons.

As for the man who wouldn't move to his job...why not? How did she keep him where he couldn't find a job?

Women need to learn how to run a household and family because life sometimes provides surprises like I had when my husband died at age 41. I am not sure what you are defining as "feminism"...do you think women shouldn't be allowed to vote, or own land (or homes), or be educated? Should I stay home and raise my kids? If so, who is going to pay my light bill or groceries? Should my son not be taught how to do laundry or should I relieve him of the duty of grocery shopping for the family because he is male?

 

[GraceDriven]

Where are the real men? Modern women have mostly destroyed them. I've seen so many men become submissive, weak, slaves to women because the women would not allow the man to be the authority in any way. I could give you an example of my own family where my mom would call the police any time she wanted to win an argument and eventually kicked everyone out of our home and took ownership of everything and then started messing about with other people. The conditions of my dad's return was that he become her total slave. Needless to say, our family was completely destroyed by this.

Or I could give you an example of a lady I worked with recently who had a good husband who lost his job down here and got another offer up north but she didn't want to move back up north where their family was and where they had a paid off house. So she got herself a job down here and divorced him and took majority ownership of his family owned home and the kids. Of course, she immediately starts sleeping with everyone at work and having people pity her because her husband wouldn't just get a job down here and do everything she wanted. Modern society says she's the victim but I say, she's in the wrong and her husband, who was once a "real" man, has been turned into another mere shadow of a man.


Men naturally desire respect and authority. And while it can certainly be said that many men DO NOT deserve this respect and abuse their authority, when women become the head of the household (or relationship), men lose their identity and end up feeling weak and confused. So yes, I do blame the feminist movement. It is an unBiblical, unGodly, family destroying abomination.

Sorry that you were a pawn in your mother's plot. I come from a very large family and I have seen a lot. I don't completely disagree with you - surprisingly. A lot of men are not "real" men before they are married and that is because of the shift in society in terms of expectations. And to be fair a lot of women are not real women too.

I have only once consider cheating on my husband - only once in the 20 years. It would take someone real special considering everything I have been through. If I was ever to remarry someday ... I would marry up. Which means I would probably remain unmarried. I know the odds. And I have seen how things have worked out for the older females of my family.

 

[GraceDriven]

Women need to learn how to run a household and family because life sometimes provides surprises like I had when my husband died at age 41. I am not sure what you are defining as "feminism"...do you think women shouldn't be allowed to vote, or own land (or homes), or be educated? Should I stay home and raise my kids? If so, who is going to pay my light bill or groceries? Should my son not be taught how to do laundry or should I relieve him of the duty of grocery shopping for the family because he is male?

This is very true blackribbon. My dad died when my mom was 42.

 

[Jack of Spades]

Well news flash buddy, you're on a Christian forum.

I know, but this forum has open areas for everyone, like this board.

Men naturally desire respect and authority. And while it can certainly be said that many men DO NOT deserve this respect and abuse their authority, when women become the head of the household (or relationship), men lose their identity and end up feeling weak and confused. So yes, I do blame the feminist movement. It is an unBiblical, unGodly, family destroying abomination.

Yes, I want to be respected, but not as an authority. I want to be respected as an independent person and as an equal partner.

Also, on attractiveness of being submissive. I think independent women who have their own will are hot. Please note that "independent" doesn't mean being dominating.

 

[Bristecom]

If women and the feminist movement have destroyed real men, then you are implying that women have that kind of power and are the stronger sex. If you look through history, this is a common problem with lots of different reasons.

As for the man who wouldn't move to his job...why not? How did she keep him where he couldn't find a job?

Women need to learn how to run a household and family because life sometimes provides surprises like I had when my husband died at age 41. I am not sure what you are defining as "feminism"...do you think women shouldn't be allowed to vote, or own land (or homes), or be educated? Should I stay home and raise my kids? If so, who is going to pay my light bill or groceries? Should my son not be taught how to do laundry or should I relieve him of the duty of grocery shopping for the family because he is male?

No, it has only gotten this way due to our current legal system which the feminist movement has highly impacted. Women are not stronger but they can now use the police or courts to gain control. They are very good at manipulating like Jezebel.

He wanted to move but she refused. She got a job here but he still felt it was best to move back home up north so he held off. Well she then took the initiative and divorced him and took over everything. Meanwhile, she claimed it was all his fault and that he is worthless.

Trust me, the feminist movement is not about voting or ownership rights anymore. It's about total control and destroying the family model that has worked for thousands of years. In other words, it's Satanic.

I'm terribly sorry about the loss of your husband. But the Bible clearly tells us that it becomes the responsibility of extended family and the church to take care of you and your family's financial needs now. And again, you are twisting my words about the father/husband being the head of the family. In no way did I imply that you should not teach your boy how to do laundry or delegate tasks to your children.

 

[Gnarwhal]

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:" - Ephesians 5:22-29

That is what I live by. And if you don't like it, then you aren't a very good Christian. So sure, you could say that the man is to control his wife in some regards but people automatically assume this means abuse. But if you read further, you will see that the man is to love his wife as Christ loved us! That means we are to cherish them more than anything (aside from God) and be willing to sacrifice our very lives for them.

I can give you countless examples of families that fell apart because the wife was not submissive and wanted to make the decisions. Again, that's not to say that the man is to ignore the wife's input in matters or not ever allow her charge over things but that ultimately, there needs to be an understanding and respect for the man as the head of the family.

I know it's not politically correct in this day and age but traditionally families have always been this way. It's only with the modern feminist movement that women have been trying to take charge of everything. And I would argue that women naturally want a good man in charge but they have insecurities developed from a bad father or bad boyfriend or from watching the stereotypical bumbling madman on TV so they try to take charge as a protection mechanism.

And hopefully I'm not offending any girls on here but let me just give you a little tip. If you wonder why guys always seem to break up with you and go for other girls, check to see if you are controlling. Almost every time, the new girl is someone who is more submissive and feminine.

The problem is, nobody in today's society can separate the concept of "submission" from "codependence". Women who are told they need to submit to their husbands suddenly become incapable of living independently of them. No activity they do in life counts unless their husband is right their with them. The same goes for men too.

Husbands and wives need a degree of healthy separation, their hearts are melded together in marriage but they should be free to move about and enjoy life with others. When they're inundated with scriptures like those snippets from Ephesians on marriage, they begin to form this skewed belief that when you're married, your life shrinks.

I was never able to go out for a few beers with any of my friends, my ex-wife didn't like doing family activities without me (she would do them anyway, but they didn't count according to her) so I had to be there if she was going to fully enjoy herself. She was also someone who supposedly subscribes to the "mandate" in Ephesians.

To be independent men and women need to think of themselves on equal terms, and they need to be able to think for themselves. I would never marry a girl who thought she had to check with me about every little thing she wanted to go do. My mom and dad have a great marriage of nearly 35 years and my mom has never "asked for permission". Her and my dad share different responsibilities in their marriage, they know what each other's strengths and weaknesses are and adjust accordingly. If she's going out to dinner with some of her girlfriends, or for a walk in the park, or anything else—she lets him know, but it's well-established from both sides that she doesn't have to ask.