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Contrary to popular belief, contraception is not an intrinsic evil.

Davidnic

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Just popping back in briefly to post this article. Another good source I just found that explains how to implement and how not to implement Directive 36 taking into account both medical experts and moral theology. It supports the ovulation testing method as do the Bishops: link

From the article (the whole article is worth a read, I am only citing the part from the conclusion on the ethical way to implement the USCCB directive that was approved by the body of Bishops in general assembly in 2001:

Ovulation testing

The pregnancy-only testing method therefore results in the administering of what will nearly always be unnecessary and harmful drugs to women who have already gone through a terrible ordeal. It also sends out a message that the possible lives of unborn children are to be accorded no significant weight in calculating how best one should act in tragic circumstances.

In contrast to this, the ovulation-testing method tests for pre-existing pregnancy, and also attempts to ascertain whether the raped woman is at or approaching the time of ovulation in order to work out whether any new conception is likely to result from the recent assault.(12) In this method, “emergency contraception”(13) is offered only if the pregnancy test is negative and empirical and personal data indicate that the woman is not at or near the time of ovulation. The simple testing gives medical staff the information to know whether they can safely intervene to prevent the release of a woman’s ovum, or prevent the sperm from reaching the egg. In this way, any child conceived is exposed to very little risk indeed and a woman treated can be reassured that she was not pregnant.


It is this empirically and ethically sound approach that truly respects women and children, and it is this approach that I believe is in keeping with the intention of Directive 36.

[12] Details of a widely adopted protocol on ovulation testing are outlined in St Francis Medical Centre, “Interim Protocol, Sexual Assault: Contraceptive Treatment Component”, Peoria, IL, (October 1995).

[13] It has been suggested that a single, moderate dose of estrogen may be sufficient to delay ovulation while at the same time being very unlikely to bring about any harm to a pregnancy if ovulation had already occurred, though this requires further investigation. If such were the case, estrogen treatment would be the ethically preferable option. See Tonti-Filippini N. & Walsh M., “Postcoital Intervention”, National Catholic Bioethics Quarterly 4: 275-289 (2004).


Also the Vatican has a conference in May and the Vatican through the Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Health Workers will soon be issuing the Charter for Health Care Workers at some point in 2011. So we can see if they address this issue.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Also the Vatican has a conference in May and the Vatican through the Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Health Workers will soon be issuing the Charter for Health Care Workers at some point in 2011. So we can see if they address this issue.
i wonder too.
 
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Davidnic

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i wonder too.

If it is comprehensive they will. The USCCB guidelines seem to mirror most others and actually, although approved in general assembly in only 2001, have been in force in local diocese for 16 years. And every moral theologian I have read agrees with them and the difference between Conjugal love and Rape as different moral objects.

So any comprehensive treatment will address it. Confidence was in May, announcement that after the conference there would be a document was in Feb. So a document by Oct/Nov would not be impossible.
 
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MikeK

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It is the active ingredient in Lysol and how it first began to be used as a spermicide. I suggest you look up its history before you falsely accuse someone of intentionally misleading people. It appears you have an axe to grind.

Concentrations of Benzalkonium Chloride used as OTC spermicides today are about 300 times the concentration found in Lysol. The poster you responded to with your Lysol schpiel didn't mention Lysol, he mentioned a chemical that is in current use for the purpose of killing sperm. Bringing up the fact that it was once used without effect in extremely diluted form strikes me as an intelectually dishonest deflection. Maybe you thought that Lysol had some relevance with the way that Benzalkonium Chloride is used as a seprmicide today. If so, I appologize for suspecting you of being dishonest and I'm happy to educate you.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Just popping back in briefly to post this article. Another good source I just found that explains how to implement and how not to implement Directive 36 taking into account both medical experts and moral theology. It supports the ovulation testing method as do the Bishops: link

From the article (the whole article is worth a read, I am only citing the part from the conclusion on the ethical way to implement the USCCB directive that was approved by the body of Bishops in general assembly in 2001:
Ovulation testing

The pregnancy-only testing method therefore results in the administering of what will nearly always be unnecessary and harmful drugs to women who have already gone through a terrible ordeal. It also sends out a message that the possible lives of unborn children are to be accorded no significant weight in calculating how best one should act in tragic circumstances.

In contrast to this, the ovulation-testing method tests for pre-existing pregnancy, and also attempts to ascertain whether the raped woman is at or approaching the time of ovulation in order to work out whether any new conception is likely to result from the recent assault.(12) In this method, “emergency contraception”(13) is offered only if the pregnancy test is negative and empirical and personal data indicate that the woman is not at or near the time of ovulation. The simple testing gives medical staff the information to know whether they can safely intervene to prevent the release of a woman’s ovum, or prevent the sperm from reaching the egg. In this way, any child conceived is exposed to very little risk indeed and a woman treated can be reassured that she was not pregnant.


It is this empirically and ethically sound approach that truly respects women and children, and it is this approach that I believe is in keeping with the intention of Directive 36.

[12] Details of a widely adopted protocol on ovulation testing are outlined in St Francis Medical Centre, “Interim Protocol, Sexual Assault: Contraceptive Treatment Component”, Peoria, IL, (October 1995).

[13] It has been suggested that a single, moderate dose of estrogen may be sufficient to delay ovulation while at the same time being very unlikely to bring about any harm to a pregnancy if ovulation had already occurred, though this requires further investigation. If such were the case, estrogen treatment would be the ethically preferable option. See Tonti-Filippini N. & Walsh M., “Postcoital Intervention”, National Catholic Bioethics Quarterly 4: 275-289 (2004).

Also the Vatican has a conference in May and the Vatican through the Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Health Workers will soon be issuing the Charter for Health Care Workers at some point in 2011. So we can see if they address this issue.


There is really nothing here to address that hasn't already been addressed.


The Church has pronounced that no one may use the morning after pill or anything like it as it creates a hostile environment for a developing embryo, and no matter the tests, one cannot be sure that fertilization will not occur and thus an abortion.

Again, the motility of sperm make all other methods superfluous as sperm that could fertilize an ovum have already departed the scene of the crime where any other methods would have their effect.



The spermiicidal methods are meaningless due to time lost before they can be obtained, and the only other alterntives are abortificants.


The Church has clearly spoken on such abortificants. There is nothing more to see.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Hormones do not cause an already-implanted embryo to abort. The abortifacient concern lies in discouraging implantation, not in ending already-implated pregnancies.


The Church defines that as an abortion Gwen. It is the ending of a life already begun, doesn't matter if it's already implanted or is prevented from implanting.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Concentrations of Benzalkonium Chloride used as OTC spermicides today are about 300 times the concentration found in Lysol. The poster you responded to with your Lysol schpiel didn't mention Lysol, he mentioned a chemical that is in current use for the purpose of killing sperm. Bringing up the fact that it was once used without effect in extremely diluted form strikes me as an intelectually dishonest deflection. Maybe you thought that Lysol had some relevance with the way that Benzalkonium Chloride is used as a seprmicide today. If so, I appologize for suspecting you of being dishonest and I'm happy to educate you.


You're always welcome to flame me Mike you do such a good job. :D


Man it was some historical perspective. . lighten up Mike.
 
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StThomasMore

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Thomas. .. it could be the most potent spermicide in the world.

So what?

For a spermicide to work it has to REACH THE SPERM.


Given spermi motility, given that the sperm can enter the uterus within 90 SEC of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], given that they can reach the fallopian tubes within 45 MINUTES . .

Given how much time is LOST because of how long it takes to get to the point that any treatment may be given - HOURS,

THE SPERM THAT NEED TO BE AFFECTED ARE OUT OF THE SPERMICIDE'S REACH!


It does nothing for the sprm that can cause pregnancy because those sperm are NO LONGER IN THE VAGINA!



Do you see?


Any sperm left in the vagina at that point, hours after [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], are not going to cause pregnancy to begin with . . the sperm that CAN cause pregnancy left long before and are in the fallopian tubes already.


Can you get a spermicide into the uterus or fallopian tubses?


No .. .


So how in the world can a spermicide affect anything materially?


The claims that they can are nonsense given the motlity of the sperm that can cause pregnancy and where they would be when a woman is given spermicide in a hospital or rape clinic.


The claims make no sense Thomas. . .think about it.

u coulg get spermicide into the uterus . which is also why its important to get to the hospital as early as possible. and not all sperm travels as fast,sometimes they can be very slow
 
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Gwendolyn

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The Church defines that as an abortion Gwen. It is the ending of a life already begun, doesn't matter if it's already implanted or is prevented from implanting.

I know, I just said it was an abortifacient. I just added that the hormones are not a real threat to an already-implanted embryo. They won't cause a miscarriage, but they will cause an already-fertilised egg to fail to implant.
 
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thereselittleflower

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u coulg get spermicide into the uterus . which is also why its important to get to the hospital as early as possible. and not all sperm travels as fast,sometimes they can be very slow

It's still a moot point .. . it takes hours before the spermicide would be administered - I've outlined why already . . and by the time anything is done, the sperm that can fertilize the egg are already in the fallopian tubes. Any sperm sitll in reach of the spermicide are irrelevant.
 
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thereselittleflower

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I know, I just said it was an abortifacient. I just added that the hormones are not a real threat to an already-implanted embryo. They won't cause a miscarriage, but they will cause an already-fertilised egg to fail to implant.

Well we have to be careful here . . even though mifepristone (RU486, Mifeprex which causes a chemical abortion of an implanted embryo) is not approved for emergency contraception in the US .. other places in the world use it as a morning after pill.
 
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StThomasMore

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After the rape, before conception. Conception can be days after intercourse.

Contraception in the cionjugal act is forbidden. Rape has been said to not be a conjugal act but an act of violence.


I guess maybe in the case of spermicides that kill the sperm are allowed. But no, not oral contraception which can kill the child and there is no way when conception had begun.
 
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StThomasMore

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It's still a moot point .. . it takes hours before the spermicide would be administered - I've outlined why already . . and by the time anything is done, the sperm that can fertilize the egg are already in the fallopian tubes. Any sperm sitll in reach of the spermicide are irrelevant.


Douching with spermacide is allowed in cases of rape. A douche or spermicide is licitly used by a woman violated by one other than her husband; a female condom is licit, if such be available. But the use of an abortifacient IUD or a sometimes abortifacient Pill attacks the life-or deliberately risks attacking the life-of another person. And that is an offense against God's commandment: "Thou shalt not kill." Once a child is conceived, the mother must say yes to God and allow the child, who is innocent, to live. Love covers a multitude of sins, we know; love can cover over even the sins of rapists, and make life tolerable for the violated woman and for the new baby."

I invite you to read Father Zimmerman's entire article on this matter: "Condom for rape in marriage?" at lifeissues.net | Condom for Rape in Marriage?


Contraception is never allowed even in cases of rape. But other methods that don't attack the embryos can be used. Usually if a woman goes immediately to the hospital after she is rape a spermicidal would be most effective. In cases of rape, a Catholic hospital can use mere contraception, not abortifacient contraception, to prevent conception. The use of contraception in this type of case is indirect, and so not intrinsically evil. However, once a child is conceived, the child has an inalienable right to life. Thou shalt not kill the innocent.

Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services (http://www.usccb.org/about/doctrine/ethical-and-religious-directives/
)


"A female who has been raped should be able to defend herself against a potential conception from the sexuual rape If, after appropriate testing, there is no evidence that conception has occurred already, she may be treated with medications that would prevent ovulation, sperm capacitation, or fertilization. It is not permissible, however, to initiate or to recommend treatments that have as their purpose or direct effect the removal, destruction, or interference with the implantation of a fertilized ovum."
 
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Athanasias

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USCCB has no authority over the Papal Encyclical Humani Vitae which Catholics must give religious submission of mind and will.

" Consequently, it is a serious error to think that a whole married life of otherwise normal relations can justify sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive and so intrinsically wrong.(HM 14)
 
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Athanasias

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Contraception /is/ allowed after (or durring) rape, but abortifacient means of contraception are not. This are old thread.

BTW all means of contraception except Condoms are abortifiecient as the Nurses and doctors at St. Louis University have discovered. Professor and research Nurse Mary Lee Barron took my wife and I through weeks of classes on this showing all methods of pills, patches, and shots are abortifiecient. It has been scientifically proven.

Contact her if you want to find out yourself the truth on the science of this.

https://www.slu.edu/nursing/faculty/mary-lee-barron-director-advanced-nursing-practice-programs
 
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MikeK

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BTW all means of contraception except Condoms are abortifiecient as the Nurses and doctors at St. Louis University have discovered. Professor and research Nurse Mary Lee Barron took my wife and I through weeks of classes on this showing all methods of pills, patches, and shots are abortifiecient. It has been scientifically proven.

Contact her if you want to find out yourself the truth on the science of this.

https://www.slu.edu/nursing/faculty/mary-lee-barron-director-advanced-nursing-practice-programs

I'm pretty much up on the science, thanks.

There exist drugs which delay ovulation that are not abortifacient. Ter also exist methods of cleansing the lower reproductive trac of sperm, preventing conception from happening at a later time. At any rate, methods known to man today are irrelevant to the general concept; rape victims may not abort, but they may use contraceptives to /prevent/ pregnancy. Please read the whole thread before commenting.
 
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MikeK

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USCCB has no authority over the Papal Encyclical Humani Vitae which Catholics must give religious submission of mind and will.

" Consequently, it is a serious error to think that a whole married life of otherwise normal relations can justify sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive and so intrinsically wrong.(HM 14)

Awww, you didn't break down that sentence before you made your post, did you?
 
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