Contradicting Teachings

coffee4u · Dec 3, 2021

James_Lai said:
If we take Homo Sapiens with their 2 billion years of history, or if we want to include earlier Hominins, then the number is even greater. Homo Erectus, Australopithecines, Neanderthals, Denisovans etc etc

God created the world some thousands of years ago, maybe 6, maybe 10 maybe 20. Point being some thousands not millions or billions. It was close to perfect and he created two people, Adam and Eve to populate it.
They or more precisely Adam rejected Gods rule and sinned, this changed them both immediately and the curse came upon the entire earth. Disease, death, hard toil to survive.
The world went from perfect to groaning.
Romans 8:22
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
This is not how God wants the world to be, the whole point of giving Adam free will was he had a choice to make and we still today have a choice to make. We have this life where we make the choice for or against God.
Once the full number comes in many Jewish people will turn before Jesus returns and the world will be remade. That was the plan from the start. It's why God created mankind in the first place, to have a group of people unto him.
Romans 11:25
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
That is us, we are the Gentiles. -unless you happen to be Jewish. But God only sees those two groups. You are either Jewish or Gentile.

James_Lai · Dec 3, 2021

timothyu said:
Eventually a whole new world yes, without man putting our will ahead of the will of God. Can you not think of others instead of seeking gain for yourself at a cost of harming them? That is contrary to how this world made in our image works. Its a way of life, not some church or denominational movement.

Theocracy. Invisible spiritual chirch. Beautiful declarations. My question was, is it really being put into practice or remains in the verbal form?

James_Lai · Dec 3, 2021

miamited said:
Hi @James Lai,

Because it is God's city and it will be set where Jerusalem is and will, therefore, be 'new' Jerusalem. If it were going to be set where Beijing is, then it would likely be called 'new' Beijing. As I say, not all of the Scriptures are symbolic. The new city that comes down out of heaven like a bride, is not symbolic. That will be a real city that sets down where Jerusalem is, and it will be set on a 'new' earth, also. The old earth will pass away.

Now, whether that means the entire planet will be destroyed or just the outer shell that existed with sin and all of the issues that arose from that, is something we will have to wait and see. 'New' could mean the entire planet is destroyed and God speaks a new earth into existence just as He did some 6,000 years ago. Or it could mean that the surface is burned up by fire that destroys all that is on the face of the earth and the existing planet is just given a 'new' face.

Oh, I'm absolutely positive that the majority of the people who have ever passed over the earth will not be found with the children of God. Yes, Jesus makes it clear that 'only few there be that find it' and he also taught us that many Christians won't be counted in that number either. Now, perhaps you find some fear in that truth. I would encourage that if you do, then you likely need to examine your life to see if you are living as Jesus has asked us to. But you are absolutely correct that the 'majority of humanity' will miss out.

You likely won't agree with me on this point, and that's ok with me. However, there is no 2 billion years of history. This realm of creation that God created for the life of mankind - to include the entire universe and all that is in and on the earth - is only some 6,000 years old. About 6,000 years ago God spoke into the black inkiness of empty space, to create the earth. Over the next 6 rotations of the earth upon its axis, He built the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. Sometime during day 6 He created Adam and we then find a fairly complete genealogy of Adam's line to Abraham and then we are given the years of life from Abraham to Jesus. All of that was about 4,000 years. We have now lived some 2,000 years since Jesus came to us. In fact, the Jewish calendar, which is claimed to be based on the day that God spoke the earth into existence, now stands at 5,782 years. Since I know that everything that God has given me to know came through the Jews, I have great confidence in their calendar. Certainly through old covenant times, the Jews were the people that God chose in order to work His plan throughout the earth.

God bless,
Ted

New Jerusalem was a prominent image in the Jewish religious thought. Books of Ezekiel, Ezra, 2 Baruch, 3 Baruch, Revelation of Peter, Revelation of John were all writing about it.

Especially after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD Revelation of John written in 90-95 AD pointed to the Heavenly Jerusalem.

If God is loving and fair, we should expect New Beijing, New Washington, New Berlin, New Seoul, New Lagos, New Baghdad, New Lima, New Canberra, New Ulaanbaatar, New Teheran etc restored for all the nations of the world.

All are equal.

miamited · Dec 4, 2021

Hi @James Lai,

James_Lai said:
If God is loving and fair, we should expect New Beijing, New Washington, New Berlin, New Seoul, New Lagos, New Baghdad, New Lima, New Canberra, New Ulaanbaatar, New Teheran etc restored for all the nations of the world.

All are equal.

I suppose in some weird idea of fairness someone might think that, but no, there's nothing fair or unfair about the new earth having the same cities all remade. Cities aren't equal. They are just places where people gather to live. There is no equality of say, two or three or a handful of cities. Even today, they all have their own individual pluses or minuses for those living within them.

I don't believe that today you'd actually find someone to say that Tehran is an equal city to New York City.

God bless,
Ted

miamited · Dec 4, 2021

Hi @James Lai,

I can also tell you that if you're operating under some idea that after God's judgment, all people that have ever lived are going to be treated equally, I can assure you that you're going to be sorely disappointed.

God bless,
Ted

James_Lai · Dec 4, 2021

miamited said:
Hi @James Lai,

I suppose in some weird idea of fairness someone might think that, but no, there's nothing fair or unfair about the new earth having the same cities all remade. Cities aren't equal. They are just places where people gather to live. There is no equality of say, two or three or a handful of cities. Even today, they all have their own individual pluses or minuses for those living within them.

I don't believe that today you'd actually find someone to say that Tehran is an equal city to New York City.

God bless,
Ted

What I imply by that, is if we look at the entire body of the extant Jewish apocalyptic literature genre, its theme is nationalistic survival and triumph. I believe all nations deserve the same. If the epitome of this idea is the establishment of the Heavenly version of the nation’s capital city, the same principle is to be transferred to all nations, small and large, rich and poor, famous and obscure. Equatorial Gunea symbolized by the city of Malabo has no lesser value to be preserved and elevated in eternity.

Though maybe the physical size of Heavenly Capital Cities are to be proportional to their corresponding nations’ populations. Israel is a very small land with fairly small population historically. Thus, a 1,500-mile square fits. Chinese or Indian eternal cities are to be bigger by a factor of at least 1000.

And what about the nations that once existed but perished? The Maya and Inca Empires? The Iroqois Confederation? The Kingdom of Mali? The Dzhungar Khanate?

Or how about nations that have a portion of population repressed and persecuted? Such as Kurds in Turkey, do they deserve their own Heavenly Capital?

James_Lai · Dec 4, 2021

miamited said:
I don't believe that today you'd actually find someone to say that Tehran is an equal city to New York City.

I can see that symbolism of the Jewish nation is the capital city of Jerusalem. So equivalent for the USA would be Wasington D.C. and not NYC

James_Lai · Dec 4, 2021

coffee4u said:
That's your take on it.
It makes you lazy, it makes you feel like its an impossible task.
You also love maths

Obviously it does not make me feel that way since I had a completely different take on it and maths makes my eyes glaze over.

Guess what, you are an individual, congratulations.

As was said before, people are individuals and how they react is different so likewise what motivates them is different and what they hear and respond to is different. The world needs all types.

PS. It is also you who find those verses as historic. Other people will have a long list of reasons why it is not historic. Your option isn't worth any more than theirs.

I notice you edited that and changed it to say 'My opinion' and I am glad you did because how that read before sounded like you were hoping for a fight.
I am not invested enough in this topic for a fight.
But my opinion is that the world will end in fire
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
The heavens that are currently there will no longer be there.

Our bodies will be resurrected into a new type of body.
1 Corinthians
42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength.

The world will be remade back into a paradise and this is where we will live.
Isaiah 65:17-25

New Heavens and a New Earth
17 “See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.

That is the whole point of the resurrection. When Jesus rose from the dead he had a new type of body and he promised that we too will be resurrected with new bodies. He wasn't just a spirit, his body could be touched and he ate food, but he could also simply appear and walk through walls. It was a new kind of body.
Luke 24
Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me to have.”

Bodies are not designed to live and stay forever in the current heaven they are designed for a new physical world. Heaven isn't the end goal the new world is. God started the world in perfection and it will end in perfection.

For someone who says they are seeking you seem already very closed to your own views and not wanting to hear anything from people who have been Christians for decades.

Thank you. Very intereting and helpful!

No, I’m not settled in my views at all. I can be wrong in everything. I love critique, because only that way you can change. People with other views help you open your eyes.

It’s a discussion forum, so I try and understand and to learn. I sound imposing my world view, my bad! Not constructive.

I appreciate all and any input here or at church.

Back to the subject. I understand. Spiritual outlook is important. Christianity is a religion, not a platform of a political party. So, absolutely, we can’t consider it purely materialistically. I do look at it in a more practical way within this thread though. Theology vs. practice.

To give you an example, I have many Christian friends. Most of them firmly believe in an imminent Armageddon. They might be correct! From system stability analysis point of view, an end of the world type event is highly probable.

It does absolutely affect their thinking and behaviour, short-term and long-term decisions and overall mental mood I would say. It shapes them deeply at many different levels. So from what I observe, such ideas are powerful, having an undeniable effect on people.

One younger couple my dear friends who are devout fundamentalist Baptist Christians, have decided to be child-free, because “why bring children into this world that’s going to turn very nasty and then be burned”. They are also against recycling or for ICE cars against electric, as they think it’s useless… Etc.

So we see in this example, “procreate, multiply” and “love your neighbour, care for yourself and be good stewards of God’s creation the environment” were ignored for the benefit of the more definitive and final idea of doom.

Also they’re not proselytizing, because (I think) why even do it, if “not many will say to Me on that day, Lord! Lord!”

Etc.

Ideas do have very tangible effect. They transpire into Human Action. If multiplied by millions individuals over the years, that creates a huge momentum for church, societies or even all of humanity.

It’s very important! Again in math terms, you can think of an idea as The Sum, Multiplication or Integral. A small mustard seed that turns into a huge tree.

James_Lai · Dec 4, 2021

ldonjohn said:
James, this is the answer to all of your questions. First, give up on yourself, on all of your questions, and turn to God asking Him to show you whatever it is you need from him so that you can find saving faith in Christ and in Him alone.
Then be content with the knowledge God gives you as you progress through the process of sanctification.
You will never know or understand everything about God; you will never understand everything you read in the bible, but God's Spirit will begin to show you the truths found there as you study His Word. He will show you things you need from His Word and help you as you grow in your faith to find peace and contentment.
You will never find real answers to all of you questions by posting on a Christian website. The questions you ask and the responses you receive from other forum members seem to just lead to more questions & more debate.
God's Word has your answers. God said in Jeremiah 29:13 "And you hall seek me, and find me, when you seek me with ll your heart." Turn form yourself and seek God; when you find Him you will then have new perspective on all those contradictions you seem to have found in the bible.
I can say these things because I obeyed Jeremiah 29:13 and and can no longer find those contradictions that bothered me before I became a real believer. Now, if or when I find something that I do not understand or that seems to be a contradiction, I don't fret over it because I know & understand the main message of the bible which is that my sins are forgiven by the finished work of Jesus on the cross and that He made me a new creation in Him when I turned from myself to Him trusting in His promise of John 6:37, "All the Father gives to me will come to me; and him that comes to me I will not cast out." Jesus has no problem getting anyone who will come to Him through that narrow gate.

Regards,

John

Thank you. I understand.

I do pray to God with all my heart and sincerely seek. I’m confident God honours it and leads.

James_Lai · Dec 4, 2021

eleos1954 said:
Do you not know this very day your life could end and your eternal fate is sealed?

2 Corinthians 6:2

Berean Literal Bible
For He says: "In the acceptable time I listened to you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." Behold, now is the time of favor; behold, now is the day of salvation.

Thank you! Being aware of your mortality is a single best motivator for humans to truly express themselves.

As for salvation, it’s such an unclear and confused teaching in Christianity…. As evidenced by my Salvation thread that was quickly closed…

James_Lai · Dec 4, 2021

miamited said:
Hi @James Lai,

I suppose in some weird idea of fairness someone might think that, but no, there's nothing fair or unfair about the new earth having the same cities all remade. Cities aren't equal. They are just places where people gather to live. There is no equality of say, two or three or a handful of cities. Even today, they all have their own individual pluses or minuses for those living within them.

I don't believe that today you'd actually find someone to say that Tehran is an equal city to New York City.

God bless,
Ted

Why weird idea? Fairness, impartiality, equal treatment are universally understood to be God’s qualities.

The sun shines and rain falls to all people

miamited · Dec 4, 2021

Hi @James Lai,

James_Lai said:
What I imply by that, is if we look at the complete body of the Jewish apocalyptic literature genre, the focus is nationalistic survival and triumph.

I'd say you likely don't have a very good understanding of the Scriptures. I can't speak for all of the 'Jewish apocalyptic literature genre', but I can speak of the Scriptures and what they say.

James_Lai said:
I believe all nations deserve the same.

Again, I'll repeat, you don't have a thorough grasp of the purpose and plan of the Scriptures and what God is doing in this realm of His creating. If you've read the Scriptures, making the whole earth equal in some way is never mentioned as a part of His endeavor. It may be important to you. But trust me, you aren't God. Perhaps you could steer me to where you've found this understanding that God is somehow working to make the whole earth equal.

James_Lai said:
If the epitome of this idea is the establishment of the Heavenly version of the nation’s capital city, the same principle is to be transferred to all nations, small and large, rich and poor, famous and obscure.

Uhhh, just no. First of all, the 'epitome' of what idea? And no, God isn't beholden to your idea of fairness and having to 'transfer' what He does for one nation, to all nations.

James_Lai said:
Though maybe the physical size of Heavenly Capital Cities are to be proportional to their corresponding nations’ populations. Israel is a very small land with fairly small population historically. Thus, a 1,500-mile square fits. Chinese or Indian eternal cities are to be bigger by a factor of at least 1000.

Again, no. The new city of Zion is not just for Israel. It is for all of the born again believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. The new city of Zion is where all of the redeemed and born again children of God will live. Surprisingly as it may seem to you, there may not be a whole lot of Israelis living there.

James_Lai said:
And what about the nations that once existed but perished? The Maya and Inca Empires? The Iroqois Confederation? The Kingdom of Mali? The Dzhungar Khanate?

Those cities and all others, have no place for them established on the new earth. There is only one city that God's word speaks of and that is the new Jerusalem or Zion, depending on how one chooses to call the city.

My encouragement for you is to read the Scriptures. All of your seemingly logical ideas may seem right to you. As the Scriptures declare: There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end, leads to destruction. If you want to know God's plan, whether you personally deem it fair or not...read the Scriptures.

God bless,
Ted

miamited · Dec 4, 2021

Hi @James Lai,

Look, if you want to cut out a paste up doll of God and put him on a framework of your creating...you're free to do so, but don't make the mistake of thinking that God feels somehow beholden to uphold and promote your idea of fairness and 'who' He is. God has written His revelation to us of 'who' He is and all that He is doing. He asks us to adjust our considerations and thinking to His way and not vice versa.

God bless,
Ted

James_Lai · Dec 4, 2021

miamited said:
Hi @James Lai,

Look, if you want to cut out a paste up doll of God and put him on a framework of your creating...you're free to do so, but don't make the mistake of thinking that God feels somehow beholden to uphold and promote your idea of fairness and 'who' He is. God has written His revelation to us of 'who' He is and all that He is doing. He asks us to adjust our considerations and thinking to His way and not vice versa.

God bless,
Ted

If the Jews had a national triumph Revelation, why not the Chinese or the Zulus?

aiki · Dec 4, 2021

The swarm of questions you pose to this subforum makes me think of Paul's words to Timothy:

2 Timothy 3:1-7
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

That last remark by Paul in this passage always makes me sit up straight and ponder his words. Partly, this is the case because, at one time, this was true of me to a degree; partly, I pause at Paul's words here because I have encountered so many who know a great deal about Christianity but who know God directly and personally not at all. In fact, in my experience, the more head knowledge folks accrue to themselves separate from a personal experience of the One to whom all the doctrines, principles and commands of the Christian faith point, the more obscure He becomes. Not because gaining a wide and deep knowledge of Christian doctrine is not very valuable, but because God never intended gaining such knowledge - vital thought it is - should ever occur in an absence of a personal relationship with Him.

When one simply loads up on Christian trivia, parsing out the faith in ever-smaller degree, examining it all in minute detail, doing so gets one's mind buried in the "trees" of the forest of Christian knowledge, studying the various shapes of the "leaves" of Christian belief, and the "root structures" of doctrine, and the inter-relationships of the "trees" to one another in the "forest biosphere" of Christian religion and so on, making one unable to see the forest as a forest. The "forest" - God - vanishes under the individual features of that which, in a sense, constitutes Him (or, at least, what we can know of Him).

But at the Final Judgment it won't be the breadth and depth of one's knowledge of Christian doctrine that God will inquire after but whether or not one knows and loves Him. Do you? Do you want to know God directly, or just endlessly speculate and dabble in the arcane minutiae of the religion? Are you content ever to learn but never to come to a life-saving, life-changing knowledge of the truth? I hope and pray not.

miamited · Dec 4, 2021

James_Lai said:
Why weird idea? Fairness, impartiality, equal treatment are universally understood to be God’s qualities.

The sun shines and rain falls to all people

Hi @James Lai,

You're going to have to show me that in the Scriptures. Somehow, I'm having a really hard time understanding that God's ideas are all about 'fairness, impartiality and equal treatment. The very words of Jesus tell us that for those who don't accept God's terms of salvation, they will be living in a place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. While those who do, will live in peace with God for all eternity.

Where does your fairness and equality doctrine come to fruition in that reality of the Scriptures?

BTW the Scriptures that say the: He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous,(matthew 5:45) is not about fairness. In fact, it is the very teaching of how unfair it is that God does bless both the righteous and the unrightesous in this life, with the basic necessities of life. But God asks those who are His children to love them as much as others. Here's the entire context for you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect".

Notice that even Jesus refers to everyone as either 'righteous' or 'unrighteous'. So, it seems apparent that Jesus doesn't see them as basically equal in who they are and how they live their lives. In this life, God blesses everyone with the falling rain and the shining sun as a blessing to sustain their lives, but that will not be the case in the next life.

God bless,
Ted

miamited · Dec 4, 2021

James_Lai said:
If the Jews had a national triumph Revelation, why not the Chinese or the Zulus?

Hi @James Lai,

Look, all I can really do is encourage you to read the Scriptures. This idea of fairness that you seem to have latched on to is not a part of God's plan. God raised up the Jew, as His people. From the loins of Abram of Ur, God promised that Abraham(Abram) would come to have descendants too numerous to count. That group of people are known as the Jews and those are the only people through whom God worked to reveal Himself to all mankind.

God bless,
Ted

timothyu · Dec 4, 2021

Jerusalem will be the seat of authority in Jesus’ temporary kingdom, and judgment will be upon all nations from there... so it says.

If you read the beginning of the Bible you will note a man among all men was set aside as special and from that man came what would become the Hebrew and eventually only the Jewish people who even reject their brother Hebrews until today. If it seems biased it probably is but you'll have to take it up with the Jews who seem to have been well served by persecution, or God.

coffee4u · Dec 4, 2021

James_Lai said:
Thank you. Very intereting and helpful!

No, I’m not settled in my views at all. I can be wrong in everything. I love critique, because only that way you can change. People with other views help you open your eyes.

It’s a discussion forum, so I try and understand and to learn. I sound imposing my world view, my bad! Not constructive.

I appreciate all and any input here or at church.

Okay. Accepted.

Back to the subject. I understand. Spiritual outlook is important. Christianity is a religion, not a platform of a political party. So, absolutely, we can’t consider it purely materialistically. I do look at it in a more practical way within this thread though. Theology vs. practice.

Christianity is actually a relationship from the individual person to God.
However if you missed that memo I would not be surprised or hold it against you because there are many forms of religious Christianity. I would say there are three main types. There is Christianity the relationship, there is Christianity the religion which has a set of rules and buildings and there is social Christianity which I believe is similar to social Judaism or social 'insert religion of choice'.
This last one means if asked a person would say they identify as Christian because they were 'born into the religion' (often meaning their parents had them christened in X church) or because they believe in the Christian God. They would put Christian down on a form, but in truth they have little idea of what being a Christian is actually about and it doesn't impact their life. This form of 'Christianity' has become less these days as people are feel less social pressure and are more outspoken about being none religious.
So when someone says they are a Christian they may or may not be one.

To give you an example, I have many Christian friends. Most of them firmly believe in an imminent Armageddon. They might be correct! From system stability analysis point of view, an end of the world type event is highly probable.

I think it is close too. The reason being the Bible describes how things will be at the end. Pestilence and the falling away of the church are two signs. What exactly close means I can't say. 5-10-20-50 years?

To me the end would mean more preaching not less.

It does absolutely affect their thinking and behavior, short-term and long-term decisions and overall mental mood I would say. It shapes them deeply at many different levels. So from what I observe, such ideas are powerful, having an undeniable effect on people.

Certainly, but that effect is different for different people. For some they will feel pressed more to spread the word, others may be depressed and third person may be happy because it means the return of Jesus. We are all individuals.

And as I mentioned first post there are studies that show Christianity is growing much faster in countries where it is outlawed or under oppression. Meanwhile it is getting less in the west. That is a simple fact that can be checked if one wishes too.

One younger couple my dear friends who are devout fundamentalist Baptist Christians, have decided to be child-free, because “why bring children into this world that’s going to turn very nasty and then be burned”. They are also against recycling or for ICE cars against electric, as they think it’s useless… Etc.

That is absolutely a thought/feeling that some people would have. Other people will say no, the second coming is probably a thousand years away and they are being silly and someone else will say if Jesus is coming soon then lets have more children because they will automatically be resurected.
You may be able to predict the people you know well, but you can't predict everyone.

So we see in this example, “procreate, multiply” and “love your neighbour, care for yourself and be good stewards of God’s creation the environment” were ignored for the benefit of the more definitive and final idea of doom.

Also they’re not proselytizing, because (I think) why even do it, if “not many will say to Me on that day, Lord! Lord!”
Etc.

Different strokes for different folks.

Ideas do have very tangible effect. They transpire into Human Action. If multiplied by millions individuals over the years, that creates a huge momentum for church, societies or even all of humanity.

It’s very important! Again in math terms, you can think of an idea as The Sum, Multiplication or Integral. A small mustard seed that turns into a huge tree.

Except people do not act like math equations. With people 2 + 2 can make 4 but it can also make 3 or 5.

ldonjohn · Dec 4, 2021

James_Lai said:
Thank you. I understand.

I do pray to God with all my heart and sincerely seek. I’m confident God honours it and leads.

James, sometimes I wonder if you are looking for answers or just want to debate Christians. I hope you are not just posing questions to draw Christians into an endless debate like some atheists I have encountered. I don't know your real motive for posting here, so I will continue to attempt to help you as long as I believe you are really looking for answers.
I don't know if you are a believer or not, but if you are praying and seeking for salvation I can tell you from my own experience that prayer does not save you, regardless of how sincere your prayer might be, unless the object of your prayer is the finished work of Jesus on the cross. IOW when you pray for God to forgive you & to save you, are you trusting in your prayer or are you trusting in the death of Jesus on the cross & His shed blood there. IOW, believe that Jesus will do what He said He will do, and then ask Him or call on Him. You call on Him because you believe Him. He said in John 6:37 that he will not turn away or reject anyone who comes to Him because the Father, God, draws that person to Him. Are you being drawn to Him by God. Is God's Spirit working in your life to convince you that you are a sinner who needs a savior? Do you believe that when Jesus died on the cross that He paid the penalty for your sin, in full?
If you can say "yes" to those questions then God's Spirit is probably drawing you to Jesus. Some people, like myself before I became a "believer," make the simplicity of the Gospel a complicated process, and have a difficult time with just trusting God to do what He says He will do.
For me, I "got it" when I finally gave up on "myself" and for the first time in my life read scripture earnestly looking for God to show me how to believe. While reading the Gospel of John God did not disappoint me; He turned on the light for me, opened my spiritually blind eyes, and showed me exactly what I needed so that I was convinced that I could simply trust Him to keep His word and trust Him to do that which He said He would do for anyone who would admit to Him their need and trust in His provision for that need.
Look in scripture for you answer. Read the Gospel of John; that book tells about Jesus; about who He is and about what He did for you. Read it as though your very eternity depends on the truth you will find there. Read it expecting God's Spirit to open your eyes to the truth.
That's what I did many years ago, and my life changed forever.

Regards,

John

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