Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
.
"Fasting" is something done for spiritual/religious purposes; Family PLANNING is done for the purpose of PLANNING births (ie conceptions).
.
It wouldn't be the will of God to leave it up to His will?family planning is done for spiritual reasons: to do the will of God. it requires self-control Gal 5:22,23
If we look at the word "contraceptive" does it not mean "contra" as against and "ceptive" as against fertilization. In NFP there is nothing that is opposing the fertilization of an egg.
It wouldn't be the will of God to leave it up to His will?
Isn't GOD the Lord of our body and our family size?
It's not 'doing sex to avoid conception', it's 'refraining from sex at certain times to avoid conception', which is not a contraceptive. 'Contraceptive' is that which disrupts the natural process that occurs during sex, that is, deliberately preventing the woman from receiving seed during the act of intercourse, or deliberately preventing the woman from being fertile.
... birth control.
... sex done contraceptively.
... purposely doing sex so as to avoid conception.
Is there a condescending tone here?You keep going to GREAT lengths to document my point for me. Thanks.
We're dang good at thatUntil we interfere with God's design in favor of a wiser one created by man.
Right?
It wouldn't be the will of God to leave it up to His will?
Isn't GOD the Lord of our body and our family size?
It's not 'doing sex to avoid conception', it's 'refraining from sex at certain times to avoid conception',
.
... well, IF it has nothing to do with conception, birth control, family planning, yes. If the reason, purpose, intent is to lesson the odds of conception, then - yes, obviously - that's a contraceptive move.A mutual agreement to not have sex at any chosen time is not contraceptive
'Contraception', or 'the prevention of fertilization', applies to that which either artificially alters the fertility of the woman (or the potency of the man) for the purpose of intercourse or prevents the woman from receiving seed during the act of intercourse. Choosing to refrain from sex at a particular time is not contraceptive. It is simply practicing continence.When something is done (the practice of NFP, the practice of birth control, the practice of Family Planning, the "rescheduling" of sex PURPOSELY, INTENTIONALLY, with the sole reason to counter conception) is that practice not contraceptive?
Originally Posted by patricius79 yes, of course. it's not intrinsically wrong like contraception is. but must be used for serious reasons and under the right circumstancesOriginally Posted by D'Ann
the Biblical Church's teaching is that it is fundamentally different to have sex without giving oneself fully
No, the Catholic Church does not say it's okay to use NFP or any contraception for the sole purpose to not conceive.
Perhaps you guys should have a brief huddle and get back to us when you can agree on an answer.
'Contraception', or 'the prevention of fertilization', applies to that which either artificially alters the fertility of the woman (or the potency of the man) for the purpose of intercourse or prevents the woman from receiving seed during the act of intercourse. Choosing to refrain from sex at a particular time is not contraceptive. It is simply practicing continence.
'Contraception' involves disruption of the natural fertilization process as it relates to the act of intercourse; abstinence and continence avoid the act of intercourse altogether -- they neither alter fertility/potency nor initiate a process or act which may be disrupted.
Josiah said:Does the Catholic Church say it's okay to use NFP so as to NOT conceive, so as to not conceive now?
.
Yes, of course.
The distinction I was making was not 'moot'. Birth control is not synonymous with contraception, though many utilize contraception as a form of birth control. The Church approves the use of periodic continence for birth control, but not the use of contraceptives.I find whatever distinction you are making entirely moot - and frankly, just muddies the whole issue STILL more (is that possible?).
Ethics has to do (at least in part) with intent, purpose, design, desire. As all but one Catholic here has stressed, the intent, purpose, design, desire of Catholic family PLANNING is to control conception, birth, family. That the intent, purpose, design, desire of Catholic Birth Control is to control births (and that INCLUDES to do things to prevent such). What this is about is DOING things, PRACTICING things - intentionally, purposely, by design - to have sex contraceptively.
I was only trying to make the point that 'contraception' does not apply to 'not having sex', whether it be abstinence OR continence (both of which I mentioned, each as a distinct concept.) I fully acknowledge that periodic continence (a.k.a. NFP) is distinct from abstinence. Therefore your tangent was moot.And again, you keep retreating into a pointless issue - abstinence.
Josiah said:Does the Catholic Church say it's okay to use NFP so as to NOT conceive, so as to not conceive now?
.Yes, of course.
.
Yes... with his quote above is what we both are saying, but using different words.yes, of course. it's not intrinsically wrong like contraception is. but must be used for serious reasons and under the right circumstances
the Biblical Church's teaching is that it is fundamentally different to have sex without giving oneself fully
When something is done (the practice of NFP, the practice of birth control, the practice of Family Planning, the "rescheduling" of sex PURPOSELY, INTENTIONALLY, with the sole reason to counter conception) is that practice not contraceptive?
.
contraception is having sex in which one deliberately blocks one's natural state of fertility (or infertility).
Yeah, yeah, yeah... I think you're the one playing the word game, you think I am, whatever.I think that's playing word games...
The REALITY seems to be Catholic Family PLANNING, Catholic Birth CONTROL, is all about having sex in ways that are contraceptive in purpose, design, intent and (almost always) desire. That makes it contraceptive.
Yes, having sex in a way that deliberately avoids fertility - so that the couple may have sex but avoid conception - that IS a contraceptive practice, a deliberately contraceptive practice of sex. It's family planning. It's birth control. It's contraceptive sex, in ways that are are intended to not result in conception.
It is what it is. You (and several others) have clearly agreed, some have even used the word "contraceptive" and "contraceptively" - you just (for reasons I TOTALLY don't understand) keep affirming and then disagreeing with yourselves. Seems like word games to me.... It is what it is. And the "morality" of it flows from what it is - the purposeful, intentional, actions to have sex but contraceptively.
We are saying the same thing, but using different words.
patricius 79 is saying that b/c and NFP is allowed as a medication for a serious health issue.. that is correct.
And we both agree that it is against Church dogma to use NFP and/or bc for the only sole purpose to prevent pro-creation. NFP may be used for infertile couples to help medically to help them be more fertile... which is some thing I don't understand myself.
.
What is your point, Josiah?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?