Contraception

[JacktheCatholic]

I can't really ask the Catholics that I know in real life, but I have wondered. Does the Roman Catholic Church still practice marital fasting? We both seem to agree that it is beneficial. I was under the impression that traditional fasting practices had mostly been abandonned in the west. That is the impression I get from the folks that I know. I could be mistaken.

I think you are meaning abstinence of a married couple in regards to sex or practicing chastity. Natural Family Planning is in essence marital fasting. It has shown great results in helping make marriages better for it. I was reading something from EWTN earlier that relates to this:

With the increased use of NFP in recent decades the Church has discovered that the informed practice of NFP actually builds virtue. In other words, couples who have used NFP become unselfish by using NFP properly. Thus, the Church has learned that if authentic virtue is weak or absent at the beginning, using NFP properly instills it! Love is a choice in one's will to give oneself to another. But that choice is founded on the recognition of the dignity of the other as well as the dignity of oneself (who would give oneself to another if one thought the gift worthless?). Therefore, anything which leads to a greater appreciation of the dignity and value of human beings fosters love.

Source: Natural Family Planning

 

[cobweb]

Fixed that for you.

I wasn't meaning the secular west, but traditional western Churches.

 

[cobweb]

I think you are meaning abstinence of a married couple in regards to sex or practicing chastity. Natural Family Planning is in essence marital fasting. It has shown great results in helping make marriages better for it. I was reading something from EWTN earlier that relates to this:

Source: Natural Family Planning

Actually no. I was meaning marital fasting during the regular Wed/Fri, pre-eucharistic, and pre-festal/lenten fasts.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Actually.. yes. The entire reason that I personally use it is to avoid (contra) conception.

Sadly, until the Church would be willing to provide regular respite care and help with the additional financial burden that having another autistic child would add.... I will be using NFP with the blessing of my priest. Our marriage (and likely my sanity) would not survive otherwise.

Your posts have me thinking... in my years here at CF I have learned so much about the Orthodox Church and I am always smiling, it seems. I love your Church and am sorry for our differences.

As to children that are autistic I have no real experience. I have a friend from our church with seven children and I know at least two of them have autism. They have their share of struggles that is for sure. They have found that his wife needs to be home and not work and I think this is the best for a family (to have the mom, or dad if need be, to be home full time). My wife and I are looking into being licensed as foster parents and so there is a chance we could have a child with autism. If so then I trust God will give is the gifts we need.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

One can abstain from sexual activity

Yes, of course. If one DOES so - perhaps using the RCC's method of birth control, NFP - purposely avoiding times when conception is likely, to counter conception, as to be a contraceptive practice - is that having sex contraceptively? Is that contraceptive NFP?

Is that okay or is that evil, sinful, immoral and wrong?



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[JacktheCatholic]

Actually no. I was meaning marital fasting during the regular Wed/Fri, pre-eucharistic, and pre-festal/lenten fasts.

Not to my knowledge. But that is not the best source (my knowledge that is).

The Byzantine Rite may practice this or something similar. But I do not know off hand.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

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[Dorothea]

Actually no. I was meaning marital fasting during the regular Wed/Fri, pre-eucharistic, and pre-festal/lenten fasts.

Yes, and abstaining Saturday evenings in fasting before taking Communion Sunday morning.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Yes, and abstaining Saturday evenings in fasting before taking Communion Sunday morning.

I did not know that this practice existed. So, food and sex are part of fasting? Anything else?

 

[cobweb]

I did not know that this practice existed. So, food and sex are part of fasting? Anything else?

Increased prayer and alms.

 

[Dorothea]

Increased prayer and alms.

Right. And as it is said so often, none of it does any good without doing this with a loving heart and compassion and love toward our neighbors. So, if you're just fasting, but not praying, it has no benefit.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Increased prayer and alms.

Yes, we do those at our Church too. Lent is a season that we pay a lot of attention to fasting in these ways and others. I think we are trying to give up worldly vices and try to become holier. During lent we do this for the entire season except we can stop our fasting on Sunday for the Liturgy. Anyhow, there are similarities but I do not know how far those run together.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Right. And as it is said so often, none of it does any good without doing this with a loving heart and compassion and love toward our neighbors. So, if you're just fasting, but not praying, it has no benefit.

Absolutely. We are reminded after every Liturgy to go out and show this Christian love to the world.

I think it is 1 Corinthians 13 that says we need Love too.

 

[cobweb]

On Sundays during lenten season our abstinence is decreased as well. Usually we are permitted oil and wine on Sundays during Lent.

 

[sunlover1]

Right. And as it is said so often, none of it does any good without doing this with a loving heart and compassion and love toward our neighbors. So, if you're just fasting, but not praying, it has no benefit.

How could you fast without praying? We pray at all times...

 

[Dorothea]

How could you fast without praying? We pray at all times...

Well, Father would tell us parishioners that without prayer, it's nothing more than doing Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

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Natural Family Planning is in essence marital fasting.
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"Fasting" is something done for spiritual/religious purposes; Family PLANNING is done for the purpose of PLANNING births (ie conceptions).


IF this RCC method of birth control were simply, "For religious blessings, stop having sex every Friday during Lent...." then we wouldn't be discussing it in this thread, would we? And it wouldn't be called "Family (conception) Planning" would it?

It's about avoiding sex WHEN CONCEPTION IS MOST LIKELY. The issue is conception. Babies. Family planning....

It can be seen as a way of avoiding conception

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Avoid = "contra." Conception = "ception."
By definition, it is can be a way of avoiding conception, then it's contraception.
Obviously.

All but one Catholic here is stating that it is okay to use NFP as a contraceptive measure and practice - to avoid conception (well, lessen the odds), and that this is the RCC position.





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[patricius79]

I am not aware of any teaching that the Saints are Infallible. Merely that they are in Heaven and are good examples of Christian living. However, I should comment on the Doctors of the Church. These Saints have contributed significantly to understanding Apostolic Tradition that the Church has labeled 33 Saints as Doctors.

Again, NFP does not seeked to stop the conception of a child but uses known fertile periods to help the family make intelligent choices on their family's health and care while keeping God's commandments and living within God's design. Natural Family Planning still is open to life and many times a couple will become pregnant and that is a blessing still. Contraception seeks to stop the possibility of conception and this is not anything like NFP.
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I think that is well said.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Avoid = "contra." Conception = "ception."
By definition, it is can be a way of avoiding conception, then it's contraception.
Obviously.

All but one Catholic here is stating that it is okay to use NFP as a contraceptive measure and practice - to avoid conception (well, lessen the odds), and that this is the RCC position.

Pope Paul VI wrote this:

"If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained.

Neither the Church nor her doctrine is inconsistent when she considers it lawful for married people to take advantage of the infertile period but condemns as always unlawful the use of means which directly prevent conception, even when the reasons given for the later practice may appear to be upright and serious. In reality, these two cases are completely different. In the former the married couple rightly use a faculty provided them by nature. In the later they obstruct the natural development of the generative process. It cannot be denied that in each case the married couple, for acceptable reasons, are both perfectly clear in their intention to avoid children and wish to make sure that none will result. But it is equally true that it is exclusively in the former case that husband and wife are ready to abstain from intercourse during the fertile period as often as for reasonable motives the birth of another child is not desirable. And when the infertile period recurs, they use their married intimacy to express their mutual love and safeguard their fidelity toward one another. In doing this they certainly give proof of a true and authentic love." (Humanae Vitae, paragraph 16)

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Pope Paul VI wrote this:

"If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth

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... birth control.

... sex done contraceptively.

... purposely doing sex so as to avoid conception.


You keep going to GREAT lengths to document my point for me. Thanks.


I wonder what D'Ann has to say about the Pope's statement? She's on record here saying that NPF cannot be used for birth control or in any way so as to avoid conception but ONLY to increase the odds of conception (If I'm understanding her correctly).






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