Continuity? Yes.

[GLJCA]

What split? I don't split the verse. I accept it just as it is. YOU, on the other hand have decided to include Gentiles in this statement, when the Bible does not. An "inward Jew" has nothing to do with a Gentile, but you're attempting to rewrite the Bible. I'll pass on your version.

It is ridiculous to say that Gentiles were not included when the letter that Paul wrote is to the Roman church, which is Gentile?

The correct way to interpret is first find out to whom the writer is writing and why he said what he said to them.

Paul is including both in his letter. Paul does not try and split the Gentile and Jew because God has made them one in Christ. God has also made them one in condemnation because they are all lost in sin.
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

There is a respect of persons with MAD.

Paul goes on to say.
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

You know DDub I think it is more than obvious that Paul is addressing Jews and Gentiles in this letter. Now if you want to keep ignoring that fact and say that Gentiles are not included in what Paul is saying then that is up to you but there is no way that you have a leg to stand on scripturally.

Then why is heymikey telling me that Gentiles are Judah? Judah is a Jewish nation, not Gentile. Do you disagree with heymikey in that respect?

We believing Gentiles have been grafted into the olive tree, which is covenant Israel. We have been grafted in along with all of the believing Jews, such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, etc. At that point we received the same citizenship that they have as the Covenant people of God. Ephesians 2 tells us that at one time were strangers of the covenants of promise but now are fellowcitizens of the household of God (Eph 2). Does that make us Jews? No not according to bloodline, but it does make us the covenant people of God who are receiving the promises that God gave to His Covenant people.

It was nothing for a Gentile in the OT to be circumcised and enter into the covenant people of God and receive the same promises of the covenant that God gave to Israel. All of the promises applied to them also even though they were not of the bloodline of Abraham. So why is it so hard to understand that today, as Gentiles, we have entered into the covenant people of God by virtue of being engrafted into the olive tree, by God himself, as an act of adoption? We have been adopted into the family of God and are now fellowcitizens with all of the OT saints as God's covenant people.

What division did I make? God says there are Jews, and there are Gentiles. God says according to the promise, there is no difference between the two. He doesn't say one group is eliminated, and all become the other. So what division are you referring to?

Come on DDub you know that isn't true. God says throughout the New Testament that there is no Jew nor Greek.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
Someone who has placed their faith in Christ is no longer a Jew or a Gentile but a Christian.

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
A lost Jew or Gentile are both under sin and going to Hell.

So bloodline does not nor will ever have any affect because Jesus Christ nailed that to the cross.

GLJCA

 

[GLJCA]

Quote:
Jesus Christ is the vine and the root of the olive tree. All who are in Him are one, New Man. Christ brought both together and made one NEW MAN.
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
We are all together in the olive tree which is the covenant people of God. God erradicated both Jew and Gentile in Christ, who is the root of the olive tree.
ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE! See that? You would have us believe it is according to all of the promises, and that's NOT what the Bible says. You are therefore misleading folks with something that isn't true.

I know that the promise that you are referring to is the promise of salvation but what you apparently can't see is that the Jesus Christ is the provision for ALL the Covenant promises given to Israel. All of the covenant promises are fulfilled in Him. Jesus is the provision for the promise of sins forgiven and remembered no more. Jesus is the provision for the promise that we can call God, our God, and that we can be called His people. The same promises that you are claiming for your own even though you say they aren't for you.

Paul told the Galatians that they were children of the promise the same as Isaac is a child of promise. God equated them as Gentiles with Isaac in the covenant people of God.
If we only have one promise then so does Isaac because God says that we are children of promise just as He is.

GLJCA

 

[heymikey80]

Then why is heymikey telling me that Gentiles are Judah? Judah is a Jewish nation, not Gentile. Do you disagree with heymikey in that respect?

To be Jewish is to be heart-circumcised, by the Spirit of God, and for your praise to come from God, not men.

There are a people labelled "Jewish" because of their origins in Judea, and then there is the actual definition of "Jewish" in God's eyes. One is outward. The other is inward. "An outward Jew isn't one."

What division did I make? God says there are Jews, and there are Gentiles. God says according to the promise, there is no difference between the two. He doesn't say one group is eliminated, and all become the other. So what division are you referring to?

The division you're making is that some inward Jews don't receive the identification "Jew" rightly.

 

[Hismessenger]

Was not the circumcision the thing which set the fleshly Israel apart from the gentiles and does the word not say that the circumcision of the heart is what makes you the seed of Abraham. It's not talking about the natural face of things but of the eternal spirit of that which is. Not is to be for Christ said repent the kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Both in the natural which He was walking in and in the spirit which He was also walking in.

Hismessenger

 

[ddub85]

@ GLJCA

Quote:
What split? I don't split the verse. I accept it just as it is. YOU, on the other hand have decided to include Gentiles in this statement, when the Bible does not. An "inward Jew" has nothing to do with a Gentile, but you're attempting to rewrite the Bible. I'll pass on your version.

It is ridiculous to say that Gentiles were not included when the letter that Paul wrote is to the Roman church, which is Gentile? The correct way to interpret is first find out to whom the writer is writing and why he said what he said to them.

That would be correct.
TO WHOM:
Rom 2:17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

Paul is very clear about to whom he is speaking. WHO rests in the law? Not Gentiles. Paul is EXCLUDING Gentiles.

WHY:
Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Paul is including both in his letter. Paul does not try and split the Gentile and Jew because God has made them one in Christ. God has also made them one in condemnation because they are all lost in sin.
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Paul doesn't include both as Jews, YOU do that. That is of your own creation. Please stop attributing that to Paul.

There is a respect of persons with MAD.

I can't help you with that one. I don't know about MAD.

Paul goes on to say.
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

You list this scripture, then you neglect the fact that Paul is speaking to those who rest in the law. Amazing!

You know DDub I think it is more than obvious that Paul is addressing Jews and Gentiles in this letter. Now if you want to keep ignoring that fact and say that Gentiles are not included in what Paul is saying then that is up to you but there is no way that you have a leg to stand on scripturally.

Rom 2:17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

Do Gentiles rest in the law? Yes or no?

Quote:
Then why is heymikey telling me that Gentiles are Judah? Judah is a Jewish nation, not Gentile. Do you disagree with heymikey in that respect?

We believing Gentiles have been grafted into the olive tree, which is covenant Israel.

Fiction. Where does the Bible say the olive tree is covenant Israel? It doesn't. You're making things up, then pretending that scripture says so.

We have been grafted in along with all of the believing Jews, such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, etc. At that point we received the same citizenship that they have as the Covenant people of God. Ephesians 2 tells us that at one time were strangers of the covenants of promise but now are fellowcitizens of the household of God (Eph 2). Does that make us Jews? No
not according to bloodline, but it does make us the covenant people of God who are receiving the promises that God gave to His Covenant people.

List the definition of a "fellowcitizen", would you? You are to receive what you've been allotted. And you haven't been allotted the promises as you say. Scripture says that nowhere. You've been allotted the promise, which is all you need because it includes Christ.

It was nothing for a Gentile in the OT to be circumcised and enter into the covenant people of God and receive the same promises of the covenant that God gave to Israel.

Fine. Then just list the scripture(s), and let's discuss it.

All of the promises applied to them also even though they were not of the bloodline of Abraham.

Fine. Then just list the scripture(s), and let's discuss it.

So why is it so hard to understand that today, as Gentiles, we have entered into the covenant people of God by virtue of being engrafted into the olive tree, by God himself, as an act of adoption? We have been adopted into the family of God and are now fellowcitizens with all of the OT saints as God's covenant people.

Because you are ADDING to what scripture says. You have made yourself Israel, and scripture says no such thing. You have included yourself in promises made to Israel, and scripture says no such thing. What you're saying simply isn't true.

Quote:
What division did I make? God says there are Jews, and there are Gentiles. God says according to the promise, there is no difference between the two. He doesn't say one group is eliminated, and all become the other. So what division are you referring to?

Come on DDub you know that isn't true. God says throughout the New Testament that there is no Jew nor Greek.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
Someone who has placed their faith in Christ is no longer a Jew or a Gentile but a Christian.

According to what? The Bible says "according to the promise". You have conveniently neglected that little fact. You have neglected what God says, and are attempting to change the meaning of His words.

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
A lost Jew or Gentile are both under sin and going to Hell.
So bloodline does not nor will ever have any affect because Jesus Christ nailed that to the cross.

And what would that have to do with a Gentile becoming a Jew? Absolutely nothing.

God Bless!

 

[ddub85]

@ GLJCA

Quote:
Quote:
Jesus Christ is the vine and the root of the olive tree. All who are in Him are one, New Man. Christ brought both together and made one NEW MAN.
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
We are all together in the olive tree which is the covenant people of God. God erradicated both Jew and Gentile in Christ, who is the root of the olive tree.
ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE! See that? You would have us believe it is according to all of the promises, and that's NOT what the Bible says. You are therefore misleading folks with something that isn't true.

I know that the promise that you are referring to is the promise of salvation but what you apparently can't see is that the Jesus Christ is the provision for ALL the Covenant promises given to Israel. All of the covenant promises are fulfilled in Him. Jesus is the provision for the promise of sins forgiven and remembered no more. Jesus is the provision for the promise that we can call God, our God, and that we can be called His people.

Ok,...

The same promises that you are claiming for your own even though you say they aren't for you.

I don't claim any promises not given by the Bible. YOU do that.

Paul told the Galatians that they were children of the promise the same as Isaac is a child of promise. God equated them as Gentiles with Isaac in the covenant people of God.

THE PROMISE, THE SINGLE PROMISE! Gentiles are included, yes. Included in the same promise that Isaac is under. Isaac was under the Old Covenant, NOT the New Covenant. You know that to be factual, as you know Isaac was dead and gone even before you say the NC began. So let's look at the truth, and stop pretending.

If we only have one promise then so does Isaac because God says that we are children of promise just as He is.

I won't even argue that point. So if Isaac has just one promise as we do, what does that change in your estimation?

Go ahead and make your bed so you can lie in it.

God Bless!

 

[ddub85]

@ heymikey

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddub85
Then why is heymikey telling me that Gentiles are Judah? Judah is a Jewish nation, not Gentile. Do you disagree with heymikey in that respect?

To be Jewish is to be heart-circumcised, by the Spirit of God, and for your praise to come from God, not men.

Is this heymikey gospel? Because I notice you listed no scripture which says such a thing. Both Jew and Gentile are heart circumcised. Being heart circumcised doesn't mak you Jewish.

There are a people labelled "Jewish" because of their origins in Judea, and then there is the actual definition of "Jewish" in God's eyes. One is outward. The other is inward. "An outward Jew isn't one."

Who was Paul speaking to? Those who rest in the law (Rom 2:17). That would EXCLUDE Gentiles. The actual definition of Jewish doesn't include Gentiles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddub85
What division did I make? God says there are Jews, and there are Gentiles. God says according to the promise, there is no difference between the two. He doesn't say one group is eliminated, and all become the other. So what division are you referring to?

The division you're making is that some inward Jews don't receive the identification "Jew" rightly.

All inward Jews receive the identification of Jew rightly. However, that id excludes all Gentiles.

God Bless!

 

[heymikey80]

Originally Posted by ddub85
Then why is heymikey telling me that Gentiles are Judah? Judah is a Jewish nation, not Gentile. Do you disagree with heymikey in that respect?

To be Jewish is to be heart-circumcised, by the Spirit of God, and for your praise to come from God, not men.

Is this heymikey gospel? Because I notice you listed no scripture which says such a thing. Both Jew and Gentile are heart circumcised. Being heart circumcised doesn't mak you Jewish.

Romans 2:29 But an inward Jew is one, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Who was Paul speaking to? Those who rest in the law (Rom 2:17). That would EXCLUDE Gentiles. The actual definition of Jewish doesn't include Gentiles.

Romans 2:26 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

Originally Posted by ddub85
What division did I make? God says there are Jews, and there are Gentiles. God says according to the promise, there is no difference between the two. He doesn't say one group is eliminated, and all become the other. So what division are you referring to?

The division you're making is that some inward Jews don't receive the identification "Jew" rightly.

All inward Jews receive the identification of Jew rightly. However, that id excludes all Gentiles.

Romans 2:28 For an outward Jew isn't one, nor is circumcision outward and physical.
Find me an uncircumcised Gentile, circumcised in the heart. His circumcision is not outward and physical, but inward and Spiritual. He's an inward Jew. Paul says it, and it's Scripture: "An inward Jew is one."

 

[ddub85]

@ heymikey
Originally Posted by ddub85
Then why is heymikey telling me that Gentiles are Judah? Judah is a Jewish nation, not Gentile. Do you disagree with heymikey in that respect?
Quote:
To be Jewish is to be heart-circumcised, by the Spirit of God, and for your praise to come from God, not men.

Is this heymikey gospel? Because I notice you listed no scripture which says such a thing. Both Jew and Gentile are heart circumcised. Being heart circumcised doesn't make you Jewish.

Romans 2:29 But an inward Jew is one, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

"But an inward Jew is one"- That would be one statement.

"and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter."- That would be another part of the statement.

Do you see the word "and" there? It separates one part of the statement from the other. But you are pretending that it says, "An inward Jew is one who is circumcised of the heart", and that's NOT what the Bible says. That is what YOU say, thereby making it heymikey gospel, having nothing to do with the Bible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddub85
Who was Paul speaking to? Those who rest in the law (Rom 2:17). That would EXCLUDE Gentiles. The actual definition of Jewish doesn't include Gentiles.

Romans 2:26 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

There is no such man. Paul is using a comparison to demonstrate to the Jews that being a physical Jew is insufficient. Paul isn't placing Gentiles under the law. That seems to be what YOU are saying, thereby making it heymikey gospel, having nothing to do with the Bible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddub85
What division did I make? God says there are Jews, and there are Gentiles. God says according to the promise, there is no difference between the two. He doesn't say one group is eliminated, and all become the other. So what division are you referring to?

Quote:
The division you're making is that some inward Jews don't receive the identification "Jew" rightly.
All inward Jews receive the identification of Jew rightly. However, that id excludes all Gentiles.

Romans 2:28 For an outward Jew isn't one, nor is circumcision outward and physical.
Find me an uncircumcised Gentile, circumcised in the heart. His circumcision is not outward and physical, but inward and Spiritual. He's an inward Jew. Paul says it, and it's Scripture: "An inward Jew is one."

And there is nothing here that says a Gentile becomes a Jew. "An inward Jew is one" is speaking about a Jew, never mentioning a Gentile. YOU have decided to include Gentiles in the statement, thereby making what you're teaching "heymikey gospel".

God Bless!

 

[heymikey80]

"But an inward Jew is one"- That would be one statement.

"and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter."- That would be another part of the statement.

Do you see the word "and" there? It separates one part of the statement from the other. But you are pretending that it says, "An inward Jew is one who is circumcised of the heart", and that's NOT what the Bible says. That is what YOU say, thereby making it heymikey gospel, having nothing to do with the Bible.

First off, what you say is not true. "and" is a conjunction, relating the two statements. But second, if you look at the end, you know (because we've discussed this before) that Paul's comments about "praise" aren't detached from the context, either. Paul is making a comment about Jews here. "Praise" in Hebrew is "Judah". Paul has not left his description of an inward Jew.

Lastly, you notice "His praise is not from men ..." He's talking about one man. One man -- inward Jew and heart circumcision by the Spirit. One man.

There is no such man.

That is what YOU are saying, not Paul. What Paul says is:

For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts Rom 2:14-15
​

It sounds very real to Paul.

And there is nothing here that says a Gentile becomes a Jew.

"An outward Jew isn't one". In other words, you can't identify a Jew by his outward circumcision. That would mean what to you? That lacking outward circumcision doesn't matter to the identification of a Jew before God.

It intrigues me, why you'd jump from "this excludes Gentiles" to "this doesn't say it includes Gentiles". Of course it actually does both. If "an outward Jew isn't one" then Paul isn't talking about all those he's talking to. Some aren't Jews, according to this assertion. And "an inward Jew" must now include some he's not talking to, because Paul's already said "won't a Gentile's uncircumcision be considered circumcision?" Rom 2:26

 

[GLJCA]

It is ridiculous to say that Gentiles were not included when the letter that Paul wrote is to the Roman church, which is Gentile? The correct way to interpret is first find out to whom the writer is writing and why he said what he said to them. That would be correct.
TO WHOM:
Rom 2:17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

Paul is very clear about to whom he is speaking. WHO rests in the law? Not Gentiles. Paul is EXCLUDING Gentiles.

Ddub please read the chapter in context.
All you are doing is reading from verse 17 to 29 excluding the rest of the chapter. All you are seeing is the Jewish factor while Paul is definitely instructing the Gentiles concerning what makes a true Jew is not that which is outward but inward.

Paul said, Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Who were the uncircumcised ones? Gentiles. Since the Gentiles attained to righteousness by faith, their uncircumcision is counted for spiritual circumcision and makes them part of the Covenant people of God, receiving the same promises that the other Covenant people receive.

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Paul tells us that we, just as Isaac, are children of promise in Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Paul brings out plainly that bloodline has nothing to do with being the Covenant people of God.
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Therefore since the New Testament came into effect the Jewish bloodline means nothing. Faith in Jesus Christ is the criteria that makes Jew or Gentile a child of God and a recipient of the promises of God.
Hbr 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

GLJCA

 

[ddub85]

@ GLJCA

Quote:
It is ridiculous to say that Gentiles were not included when the letter that Paul wrote is to the Roman church, which is Gentile? The correct way to interpret is first find out to whom the writer is writing and why he said what he said to them.

That would be correct.
TO WHOM:
Rom 2:17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
Paul is very clear about to whom he is speaking. WHO rests in the law? Not Gentiles. Paul is EXCLUDING Gentiles.

Ddub please read the chapter in context.
All you are doing is reading from verse 17 to 29 excluding the rest of the chapter. All you are seeing is the Jewish factor while Paul is definitely instructing the Gentiles concerning what makes a true Jew is not that which is outward but inward.

Yes, and his instruction NEVER includes Gentiles in being Jews, or even the possibility of being Jews. You are attempting to include this in the chapter, and it doesn't exist.

Paul said, Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Who were the uncircumcised ones? Gentiles.

Ok,...

Since the Gentiles attained to righteousness by faith,...

Read the verse again. Attained by faith? Not what Paul said. "Keep the righteousness of the law" is what he said. That has nothing to do with ANY Gentile who has ever walked the earth. There are no Gentiles who have kept the righteousness of the law.

... their uncircumcision is counted for spiritual circumcision and makes them part of the Covenant people of God, receiving the same promises that the other Covenant people receive.

Fiction based upon things that Paul DID NOT say. As shown above, you're attempting to change what Paul said in order to make it fit what you want to say. Therefore, yours is a different gospel.

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Are you "in Isaac"??? NO!!! So you are summarily EXCLUDED! Can't you see that fact?

Paul tells us that we, just as Isaac, are children of promise in Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

This tells us that we are of the same promise as Isaac, which is the Old Covenant. It tells us that we are under that promise! You deny that fact.

What it doesn't say is that we are "in Isaac", which is what you're attempting to add to scripture. Read it again slowly.

Paul brings out plainly that bloodline has nothing to do with being the Covenant people of God.

Again you misspeak on behalf of Paul. What Paul says is bloodline alone doesn't make one the Covenant people of God. He NEVER says that bloodline has nothing to do with it. That's what YOU say in order to create the story you've created. But please don't attribute that to Paul when he doesn't say such a thing.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Therefore since the New Testament came into effect the Jewish bloodline means nothing.

Two false statements here. First, you've listed no scripture which says the New Testament is in effect. Second, there are no scriptures which say the Jewish bloodline means nothing. As a matter of fact,...

Rom 3:1-2 ¶ What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

... this scripture totally disagrees with what you just said.

Faith in Jesus Christ is the criteria that makes Jew or Gentile a child of God and a recipient of the promises of God.

The Bible says we are heirs "according to the promise", not promises. That is what YOU say, and NOT what the Bible says.

Hbr 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

And notice that the writer speaks of a promise we Gentiles have been EXCLUDED from. When Paul speaks about what we're included in concerning those promises, the one you mention is EXCLUDED by Paul (Gal 3:8). Of course, you prefer to ignore that very important fact.

God Bless!

 

[GLJCA]

Read the verse again. Attained by faith? Not what Paul said. "Keep the righteousness of the law" is what he said. That has nothing to do with ANY Gentile who has ever walked the earth. There are no Gentiles who have kept the righteousness of the law.

Ok I have read it again but you apparently are reading something into the verse that isn't there. There is a difference between keeping the righteousness of the law and keeping every jot and tittle of the law. No one but Jesus Christ has ever kept the whole law yet there have been many who were considered righteous in the Old Testament who kept the righteousness of the law.
Isa 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart [is] my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

There was a difference between a person who tried to keep the letter of the law for righteousness and the righteous one who had the law of God in his heart. One kept the righteousness of the law by faith and the other sought righteousness in the flesh.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Therefore what Paul is saying again is that the uncircumcised Gentile who keeps the righteousness of the law, his uncircumcision is counted for circumcision. He has become a true Jew, not of bloodline but of promise.

It is a mistake to assume that the promises of God came through the bloodline of Abraham. Jesus told those who were of the bloodline of Abraham, the Pharisees, that they were of their father the devil.He was telling them that they were not true Jews even though they were had the pedigree or bloodline.

In the OT when a stranger obeyed the requirements of God and was circumcised, he was as one born in the land. In other words as far as God was concerned he was as much a Jew as the Jews were.
Exd 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

You are seeing only part of the picture, my friend. God's Covenant promises are applied to Jew and Gentiles in the New Covenant, which was established and put "of force" upon the death of Christ, the testator.

GLJCA

 

[GLJCA]

Are you "in Isaac"??? NO!!! So you are summarily EXCLUDED! Can't you see that fact?

We have been through this before my friend. If I tell you the same thing and show you the same scripture are you going to see it this time? God's Word does not change nor can I change it but just to be sure, I will share it again.

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Paul was speaking to Gentiles concerning the Covenant promises of God. We are equal to Isaac concerning God's promises.

Now your argument in the past has been that we only inherit one promise but then the same argument would have to be true concerning Isaac.

GLJCA

 

[GLJCA]

This tells us that we are of the same promise as Isaac, which is the Old Covenant. It tells us that we are under that promise! You deny that fact.

What it doesn't say is that we are "in Isaac", which is what you're attempting to add to scripture. Read it again slowly.

Ahh but my friend we are not in the Old Covenant but we are in the New Covenant, as has been shown to you several times in scriptures but you refuse to acknowledge. We are able ministers of the New Testament, a fact of which I have not seen you address. Being a minister of a covenant that we are not in is not even feasible. We are commanded to observe the Lord's Supper which is the celebration of the New Covenant body and blood of Christ. It would be ludicrous(not the rapper) to celebrate something that does not pertain to you. I also have never seen you address that fact either.

So why do you keep saying the same thing when you know that we are going to give you the same scriptures that prove you wrong?

 

[GLJCA]

Again you misspeak on behalf of Paul. What Paul says is bloodline alone doesn't make one the Covenant people of God. He NEVER says that bloodline has nothing to do with it. That's what YOU say in order to create the story you've created. But please don't attribute that to Paul when he doesn't say such a thing.

DDub you are reaching, my friend. God's promises have never in history come through the bloodline. I have already shown you that a stranger in Israel who received circumcision was as one born in the land. All of the mixed multitude that left out of Egypt, were circumcised and became Israel even though many of them were Egyptians.
Exo 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, [even] very much cattle.

Exo 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Was bloodline the criteria? No!!! The criteria was circumcision. A stranger who was circumcised entered into covenant with God and was as one born in the land of Israel.

Bloodline means nothing in the New Covenant because God has made all nations of one blood.

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

The Word of God is plain, DDub. You can keep denying it but it is not doing you any good at all.

GLJCA

 

[GLJCA]

Rom 3:1-2 ¶ What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

... this scripture totally disagrees with what you just said.

No it does not disagree with me. Taken in context it totally agrees with me.

Why do you insist on taking verses out of the context of the book to prove your point? Read it in context my friend.

Rom 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
Rom 3:1-3 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Paul's thoughts were carried over from the chapter before, which were not chapters when he wrote it. Once he established who a true Jew was in chapter two, he shows the advantage of being a true Jew in chapter three. To you and I, my friend, has been given the oracles of God also.
Hbr 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

GLJCA

 

[ddub85]

@ GLJCA

Quote:
Read the verse again. Attained by faith? Not what Paul said. "Keep the righteousness of the law" is what he said. That has nothing to do with ANY Gentile who has ever walked the earth. There are no Gentiles who have kept the righteousness of the law.

Ok I have read it again but you apparently are reading something into the verse that isn't there. There is a difference between keeping the righteousness of the law and keeping every jot and tittle of the law.

Really? So if it's just a small violation, then it's ok? It's not really breaking the law?

No one but Jesus Christ has ever kept the whole law yet there have been many who were considered righteous in the Old Testament who kept the righteousness of the law.

I don't know why you're trying to justify something that isn't true. No man has kept the law (Rom 3:10-11). Period.

Isa 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart [is] my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
There was a difference between a person who tried to keep the letter of the law for righteousness and the righteous one who had the law of God in his heart. One kept the righteousness of the law by faith and the other sought righteousness in the flesh.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

We're discussing a man keeping the law, and there is no such man other than Christ. Do you agree or not?

Therefore what Paul is saying again is that the uncircumcised Gentile who keeps the righteousness of the law, his uncircumcision is counted for circumcision. He has become a true Jew, not of bloodline but of promise.

Paul never says any such thing. That is what YOU say, and NOT what the Bible says. Paul says there are no Gentiles who keep the righteousness of the law, thereby proving what you're saying as untrue.

It is a mistake to assume that the promises of God came through the bloodline of Abraham.

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the "FLESH":
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth]... the "PROMISES";

It is a mistake to misquote the word of God blatantly, and create your own gospel.

Jesus told those who were of the bloodline of Abraham, the Pharisees, that they were of their father the devil.He was telling them that they were not true Jews even though they were had the pedigree or bloodline.

Jesus was speaking to those Jews that didn't know Him, not to those who followed Him. Let's tell the whole truth.

In the OT when a stranger obeyed the requirements of God and was circumcised, he was as one born in the land. In other words as far as God was concerned he was as much a Jew as the Jews were.
Exd 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Really? Where does it say, "and the stranger shall become a Jew just as you are"??? IT DOESN'T SAY THAT, YOU SAY THAT! Do you not see that FACT? The stranger remains who he is, he doesn't become a Jew as you're contending.

You are seeing only part of the picture, my friend. God's Covenant promises are applied to Jew and Gentiles in the New Covenant, which was established and put "of force" upon the death of Christ, the testator.

Fiction. There are NO SCRIPTURES which say the NC promises are applied to Gentiles. That is flat out untrue. Also, the term "of force" doesn't at all mean the NC began. We've alreadydiscussed that previously. So that is another flat out untruth.

God Bless!

 

[ddub85]

@ GLJCA

Quote:
Are you "in Isaac"??? NO!!! So you are summarily EXCLUDED! Can't you see that fact?

We have been through this before my friend. If I tell you the same thing and show you the same scripture are you going to see it this time?

No, because what you're saying wasn't true then, and it isn't true now.

God's Word does not change nor can I change it but just to be sure, I will share it again.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Paul was speaking to Gentiles concerning the Covenant promises of God.

Paul says PROMISE, but was speaking of PROMISES. Uhhh... NO!!!

You're beginning from an untruth. Paul says promise, and you say promises.

Do you see that? "God's Word does not change", but you're attempting to change it.

We are equal to Isaac concerning God's promises.

See the truth above.

Now your argument in the past has been that we only inherit one promise but then the same argument would have to be true concerning Isaac.

Wrong. Isaac, and all Jews accepting Christ, receive this same promise we Gentiles inherit. What would possibly be the problem with that?

God Bless!

 

[ddub85]

@ GLJCA
Quote:
This tells us that we are of the same promise as Isaac, which is the Old Covenant. It tells us that we are under that promise! You deny that fact.
What it doesn't say is that we are "in Isaac", which is what you're attempting to add to scripture. Read it again slowly.

Ahh but my friend we are not in the Old Covenant but we are in the New Covenant, as has been shown to you several times in scriptures but you refuse to acknowledge.

You have shown exactly 0 scriptures which say we're under the NC. You have shown exactly 0 scriptures which say the NC is for Gentiles. Why would I acknowledge anything like that?

We are able ministers of the New Testament, a fact of which I have not seen you address.

Untrue. I've addressed it MANY times, and will do so again. Being a servant (as in a waiter) of something doesn't make you the recipient. The waiter serves the meal, and it isn't for him. That is what the verse says.

Being a minister of a covenant that we are not in is not even feasible.

Then list the scripture that says so. Show the scripture which says the NC is given to Gentiles.

We are commanded to observe the Lord's Supper which is the celebration of the New Covenant body and blood of Christ.

And so that means we are under the NC? Is that your proof? There are scriptures which say the NC is for the Jews. Do you have any that say it's for Gentiles? ANY???

It would be ludicrous(not the rapper) to celebrate something that does not pertain to you. I also have never seen you address that fact either.

Address the fact that we are to observe the Lord's Supper? That is a celebration of Christ, not the NC. The blood of Christ was for the OC and the NC. We've discussed this fact many times. The blood of Christ pertains to us according to scripture, and not the NC. You are confusing the two.

So why do you keep saying the same thing when you know that we are going to give you the same scriptures that prove you wrong?

You haven't listed ANYTHING which proves me wrong. I've shown you in scriptures where the promises are to Israel, and you've shown me NONE which say the promises are to Gentiles. I've shown you scriptures which say the NC is for Israel, and you've shown me NONE that say it's for Gentiles.

Your "opinion" isn't proof. You have no proof.

God Bless!