Contemplative prayer?

[Innerfire89]

I was sure where to put this exactly, so here will work.

Contemplative prayer by the way the term is used today, is a form of meditation. You start with a centering prayer, which is repeating a word or phrase and emptying your mind of thoughts, then you listen for God's voice or wait for a vision.

But where did this practice come from? It's not from Christianity, but Buddhism, the purpose is to connect with deities, that in reality are demons.
Every example of prayer in scripture shows thoughtful communication with God, not emptying the mind.Look to the example of prayer that Christ gave us and follow after him.

 

[Southernscotty]

Question: "What is contemplative prayer?"

Answer: It is important to first define “contemplative prayer.” Contemplative prayer is not just “contemplating while you pray.” The Bible instructs us to pray with our minds (1 Corinthians 14:15), so, clearly, prayer does involve contemplation. However, praying with your mind is not what “contemplative prayer” has come to mean. Contemplative prayer has slowly increased in practice and popularity along with the rise of the emerging church movement—a movement which embraces many unscriptural ideas and practices. Contemplative prayer is one such practice.

Contemplative prayer begins with “centering prayer,” a meditative practice where the practitioner focuses on a word and repeats that word over and over for the duration of the exercise. The purpose is to clear one’s mind of outside concerns so that God’s voice may be more easily heard. After the centering prayer, the practitioner is to sit still, listen for direct guidance from God, and feel His presence.

Although this might sound like an innocent exercise, this type of prayer has no scriptural support whatsoever. In fact, it is just the opposite of how prayer is defined in the Bible. “Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.” (Philippians 4:6). “In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete” (John 16:23-24). These verses and others clearly portray prayer as being comprehendible communication with God, not an esoteric, mystical meditation.

Contemplative prayer, by design, focuses on having a mystical experience with God. Mysticism, however, is purely subjective, and does not rely upon truth or fact. Yet the Word of God has been given to us for the very purpose of basing our faith, and our lives, on Truth (2 Timothy 3:16-17). What we know about God is based on fact; trusting in experiential knowledge over the biblical record takes a person outside of the standard that is the Bible.

Contemplative prayer is no different than the meditative exercises used in Eastern religions and New Age cults. Its most vocal supporters embrace an open spirituality among adherents from all religions, promoting the idea that salvation is gained by many paths, even though Christ Himself stated that salvation comes only through Him (John 14:6). Contemplative prayer, as practiced in the modern prayer movement, is in opposition to biblical Christianity and should definitely be avoided.

 

[archer75]

Philemon 2:7 says that Christ emptied himself in order to serve. We are to be like Christ. One thing we are often burdened by is the noise of our minds. Matthew 11:30 tells us that Christ's yoke is easy, and his burden is light.

There are scriptural bases for the ancient Christian notion of kenosis - or emptying.

That isn't to say that any given practice is great. But the idea is not out of thin air or from Buddhism.

 

[dreadnought]

I was sure where to put this exactly, so here will work.

Contemplative prayer by the way the term is used today, is a form of meditation. You start with a centering prayer, which is repeating a word or phrase and emptying your mind of thoughts, then you listen for God's voice or wait for a vision.

But where did this practice come from? It's not from Christianity, but Buddhism, the purpose is to connect with deities, that in reality are demons.
Every example of prayer in scripture shows thoughtful communication with God, not emptying the mind.Look to the example of prayer that Christ gave us and follow after him.

Paul told us to pray constantly (1 Thess 5:17). There are no hoops to jump through.

 

[ripple the car]

Praying by emptying the mind of all thoughts does sound remarkably like Buddhism.

There are forms of contemplation which allow us to deeply consider the suffering of Christ, meditate on His life, and draw near to Him through our thoughts. But that's definitely not the same thing as emptying the mind.

 

[archer75]

Praying by emptying the mind of all thoughts does sound remarkably like Buddhism.

There are forms of contemplation which allow us to deeply consider the suffering of Christ, meditate on His life, and draw near to Him through our thoughts. But that's definitely not the same thing as emptying the mind.

Superficial similarity is, in my opinion, not enough to go on here. Many Catholics pray the Rosary and use rosary beads to do so. Many Buddhists and followers of Jainism use beads, but that does not mean that praying the Rosary is a Buddhist or Jainist practice.

 

[Innerfire89]

Philemon 2:7 says that Christ emptied himself in order to serve. We are to be like Christ. One thing we are often burdened by is the noise of our minds. Matthew 11:30 tells us that Christ's yoke is easy, and his burden is light.

There are scriptural bases for the ancient Christian notion of kenosis - or emptying.

That isn't to say that any given practice is great. But the idea is not out of thin air or from Buddhism.

Christ emptied himself means he gave all of himself, not emptied his mind of thought.

If taken out of context or twisted around then there is scriptural bases, otherwise there's none.
It may have not originated with Buddhism persicely, but it originated from where it originated from.

 

[Innerfire89]

Superficial similarity is, in my opinion, not enough to go on here. Many Catholics pray the Rosary and use rosary beads to do so. Many Buddhists and followers of Jainism use beads, but that does not mean that praying the Rosary is a Buddhist or Jainist practice.

Ok, but think about this, if Buddhists use the same means to contact thier deities, what are Christians coming into contact with when do the same thing just repackaged?

 

[archer75]

Ok, but think about this, if Buddhists use the same means to contact thier deities, what are Christians coming into contact with when do the same thing just repackaged?

See my earlier post, #6. A superficial similarity is not enough to go on.

Many Christians use vocal prayer to speak to God. Many Muslims do the same. So I guess Christianity is the same as Islam, now?

No, of course it isn't.

The rosary beads are counters. They are not magic. One can pray the Rosary without using beads. The beads are a tool. The prayer rope used in Eastern Christian traditions is also a set of counters. These are tools.

Buddhists also gather in special places designated for their Buddhist gatherings. Christians do the same. Maybe we should stop? Maybe we're really praying to a "Buddhist god"? After all, Buddhism is older than Christianity. Maybe it's all been a Buddhist trick. Of course, no one would think that.

I am not saying that whatever practice that goes under the name of "contemplative prayer" is great or okay. But I think one should know more about it before assigning a Buddhist origin to it and condemning it on that basis.

If you are interested in learning more about the ancient Christian traditions that have superficial resemblances to such practices, you could ask in The Ancient Way or One Bread, One Body.

 

[Innerfire89]

See my earlier post, #6. A superficial similarity is not enough to go on.

Many Christians use vocal prayer to speak to God. Many Muslims do the same. So I guess Christianity is the same as Islam, now?

No, of course it isn't.

The rosary beads are counters. They are not magic. One can pray the Rosary without using beads. The beads are a tool. The prayer rope used in Eastern Christian traditions is also a set of counters. These are tools.

Buddhists also gather in special places designated for their Buddhist gatherings. Christians do the same. Maybe we should stop? Maybe we're really praying to a "Buddhist god"? After all, Buddhism is older than Christianity. Maybe it's all been a Buddhist trick. Of course, no one would think that.

I am not saying that whatever practice that goes under the name of "contemplative prayer" is great or okay. But I think one should know more about it before assigning a Buddhist origin to it and condemning it on that basis.

If you are interested in learning more about the ancient Christian traditions that have superficial resemblances to such practices, you could ask in The Ancient Way or One Bread, One Body.

But there is no hint of contemplative prayer in scripture, and Christians don't require a special place to meet. I condemn it on the basis that it's an unbiblical practice of opening one's self to the spirit world to talk to what people think is God.

I've had similar discussions with Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox before on pagan influence, we disagreed on a few things.

 

[St_Worm2]

But there is no hint of contemplative prayer in scripture, and Christians don't require a special place to meet.

You are correct, when the Bible speaks of Judeo/Christian "meditation", it always begins and ends with the word of God. For instance:

Joshua 1
8 This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success.​

Psalms 1
1 How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked,
Nor stand in the path of sinners,
Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water,
Which yields its fruit in its season
And its leaf does not wither;
And in whatever he does, he prospers.

2 Timothy 3
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.​

Christian meditation seeks to empty our surroundings of distractions (that we might focus w/o distractions on God/His word alone, not empty our minds, particularly of the revealed truth about God that He has given us (which should be ever-present in our minds). I also agree that "emptying" our minds, as you just mentioned above, can be a very dangerous practice, particularly for Christians, since we have such a relentless enemy in the spirit realm surrounding us .. e.g. 1 Peter 5:8; Ephesians 6:12.

Yours and His,
David

Psalm 119:9,11
How can a young man keep his way pure? By keeping it according to Thy word. Thy word I have 'treasured' in my heart, that I may not sin against Thee.
.​

 

[St_Worm2]

I found this, from the Orthodox Church in America. While much of what it describes is a pretty "orthodox" instruction in Christian meditation, it does mention a meditation/prayer of "silence". But even in this case, if one chooses to empty all else from one's mind, it is never to be completely devoid of the Holy Scriptures, as it will, at the very least, have Jesus' prayer as it's "foundation and background" (see towards the bottom in bold).

*(This is excerpted from a much larger section of their website on prayer)

Meditation
Meditation differs from prayer, even from silent prayer, in that meditation is thought about God and contemplation of His word and His works.

Meditation normally begins by reading from the holy Scriptures, the Word of God. This is called in the spiritual tradition lectio divina. It is the slow and attentive reading of the Bible, or perhaps the writings of the church fathers and saints, not for the purpose of gaining information, but for the purpose of communion with God.

Such meditative reading may be of the sort where the person tries, with the power of his thought and imagination, to enter into the event about which he is reading in order to become its contemporary participant. Or, it can be of the sort where the person merely reads and listens in silence, without imagination or rational thought, in order to let the Word of God enter his mind and heart in order to remain there, to bring forth its fruit at the appointed time.

Psalmody, done either alone or in the churchly assembly, exists for this latter purpose. When reading or chanting the psalms, the person does not try to think about each word and phrase. Rather he cuts off all reasoning, and opens his heart to the Lord, uniting “his mouth with his mind,” (Saint Benedict) and allowing the Word of God to be planted within him to blossom in his soul with the fruits of the Spirit. This also is the case with church hymnography. It is sung for the glory of God and the edification and expansion of the soul through the contemplation of the Lord in His words and works of salvation, much more than for any intellectual instruction. This type of meditation is especially advised in times of despondency.

There is also the type of meditation and contemplation done totally in silence, without any words or images or thoughtful activity at all, not even psalmody. The person merely sits in silence, often in the presence of holy icons, and emptying his mind of all thoughts, imaginations and desires, listens to God in silence, the divine “language of the Kingdom of heaven” (Saint Isaac of Syria). This type of meditation, for a person of unceasing prayer, will be the “prayer of silence,” with the “bubbling spring” of the Jesus Prayer as its only foundation and background. In such contemplative prayer and prayerful contemplation, the spirit of man becomes one with the Spirit of God (cf. 1 Cor 6.17). The Orthodox Faith - Volume IV - Spirituality - Prayer, Fasting, and Almsgiving - Meditation​

~David

 

[archer75]

But there is no hint of contemplative prayer in scripture, and Christians don't require a special place to meet. I condemn it on the basis that it's an unbiblical practice of opening one's self to the spirit world to talk to what people think is God.

I've had similar discussions with Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox before on pagan influence, we disagreed on a few things.

Yes, I can imagine. Well, no need to argue in circles. Though I will say that the very practice of having written NT scriptures is itself not referred to in scripture. Yet no one attacks reading the Gospels as unbiblical. Oh well.

 

[Innerfire89]

Yes, I can imagine. Well, no need to argue in circles. Though I will say that the very practice of having written NT scriptures is itself not referred to in scripture. Yet no one attacks reading the Gospels as unbiblical. Oh well.

That's kinda why we have scripture.
There's a few verses that give the impression that should be read by everyone, at least the old testament since Jesus asked repeatedly " have you not read?"
And all scripture is God breathed and profitable for instruction in righteousness, correction, and doctrine. 2 Timothy 3:16
And if scripture is to be read in a in a group setting then it's probably ok to read alone, being that each believer has a personal relationship with Christ.

Anyhow, let's move along from fallacy and petty arguments. We have scriptural examples and guidelines for prayer.

 

[archer75]

That's kinda why we have scripture.
There's a few verses that give the impression that should be read by everyone, at least the old testament since Jesus asked repeatedly " have you not read?"
And all scripture is God breathed and profitable for instruction in righteousness, correction, and doctrine. 2 Timothy 3:16
And if scripture is to be read in a in a group setting then it's probably ok to read alone, being that each believer has a personal relationship with Christ.

Anyhow, let's move along from fallacy and petty arguments. We have scriptural examples and guidelines for prayer.

To what guidelines and examples do you refer, and how do you see them followed in a prayer practice of which you approve?

 

[Innerfire89]

To what guidelines and examples do you refer, and how do you see them followed in a prayer practice of which you approve?

Matthew 6: 5-13 Christ teaches us how to pray, no vain repetitions like chanting a mantra, no praying to show off. Prayer is simple and sincere communication with God to willfully acknowledge God's will for our lives and ask for his guidance and protection.

 

[archer75]

Matthew 6: 5-13 Christ teaches us how to pray, no vain repetitions like chanting a mantra, no praying to show off. Prayer is simple and sincere communication with God to willfully acknowledge God's will for our lives and ask for his guidance and protection.

How do we know when it's sincere? And how do we know when repetitions are vain?

 

[W2L]

How do we know when it's sincere? And how do we know when repetitions are vain?

My opinion is that any repetition is vain, according to the scriptures. God already knows what we need before we ask Him, so says the Lord, and so repetitions are not needed.

 

[archer75]

My opinion is that any repetition is vain, according to the scriptures. God already knows what we need before we ask Him, so says the Lord, and so repetitions are not needed.

In that case - and I'm serious - why pray at all? As you say, God knows what we need already.

As for me, I think prayer is largely to open us to God. Repetitions are not necessarily vain.

 

[W2L]

In that case - and I'm serious - why pray at all? As you say, God knows what we need already.

As for me, I think prayer is largely to open us to God. Repetitions are not necessarily vain.

The Lord said God already knows what we need before we ask. What does that mean?