Contact with the abuser?

[Pats]

My ex husband mentally, emmotionally, and physically abused my son and he sexually abused my daughter.

My youngest daughter is also his child, and so I have not been able to completely sever contact with him.

In some ways I feel like I have forgiven him, but I don't feel that way all the time.

Anyway, my oldest daughter, whom he abused, misses him very much. She is jealous when my youngest gets to talk to him. She wants to talk to him, but her dad and I will not allow that right now. I think I understand the basic concept of why she would still want to talk to him, but I feel it isn't best. He is very manipulative, even when he doesn't mean to be.

Anyway, now my son has contacted him over the internet without asking first if he could. And of course the older daughter is jealous.

I'm just wondering if anyone with similar experiences has any thoughts or advice.

Thanks.

 

[lilymarie]

My ex husband mentally, emmotionally, and physically abused my son and he sexually abused my daughter.

My youngest daughter is also his child, and so I have not been able to completely sever contact with him.

In some ways I feel like I have forgiven him, but I don't feel that way all the time.

Anyway, my oldest daughter, whom he abused, misses him very much. She is jealous when my youngest gets to talk to him. She wants to talk to him, but her dad and I will not allow that right now. I think I understand the basic concept of why she would still want to talk to him, but I feel it isn't best. He is very manipulative, even when he doesn't mean to be.

Anyway, now my son has contacted him over the internet without asking first if he could. And of course the older daughter is jealous.

I'm just wondering if anyone with similar experiences has any thoughts or advice.

Thanks.

Oh Pats! I am so sorry! I am a survivor also. I was even raped in church by a youth leader along with other abuses I've suffered, so regaining trust is hard to do, I know.

But, if the court is involved in this case, I would follow their criteria as far as your children are concerned.

I think you might be confusing anger at your ex with forgiveness. You may have forgiven him, but you may still feel angry at him at times, and that is normal so don't beat yourself up over that.

But first, how old is your daughter, the one who wants to contact her father?

 

[Pats]

Oh Pats! I am so sorry! I am a survivor also. I was even raped in church by a youth leader along with other abuses I've suffered, so regaining trust is hard to do, I know.

But, if the court is involved in this case, I would follow their criteria as far as your children are concerned.

I think you might be confusing anger at your ex with forgiveness. You may have forgiven him, but you may still feel angry at him at times, and that is normal so don't beat yourself up over that.

But first, how old is your daughter, the one who wants to contact her father?

Thank you. I never thought of that before. That we can be angry with some one we have forgiven. That makes a lot of sense. Reps to you!!

Actually, I do allow my ex contact with his daughter, who is 5. It is my older daughter that is 10 who he molested and she is not his daughter, he was her step dad. Also, my son who is 13 has contacted him on his own, he is also not his natural son.

Anyway, thanks. I am a survivor myself, so, as you may imagine, this was devestating. Thanks for your comments. Hope this post clerrifies what I'm talking about.

Right now, court is not involved. He was reported to the police and even turned himself in and confessed, and he wasn't even arrested. I really fail to understand why, but I'm trying to get more information out of the court as to why not.

 

[lilymarie]

Thank you. I never thought of that before. That we can be angry with some one we have forgiven. That makes a lot of sense. Reps to you!!

Actually, I do allow my ex contact with his daughter, who is 5. It is my older daughter that is 10 who he molested and she is not his daughter, he was her step dad. Also, my son who is 13 has contacted him on his own, he is also not his natural son.

Anyway, thanks. I am a survivor myself, so, as you may imagine, this was devestating. Thanks for your comments. Hope this post clerrifies what I'm talking about.

Right now, court is not involved. He was reported to the police and even turned himself in and confessed, and he wasn't even arrested. I really fail to understand why, but I'm trying to get more information out of the court as to why not.

Hi Pats,

Yes, we can forgive someone but it sounds like you are still going through parts of the grieving process. It happens when we lose a loved one and it happens when we are seriously betrayed by someone, someone who has betrayed our trust and stolen a part of our innocence. It's normal to feel the anger, the guilt, the depression, it's takes awhile to even be fully reconciled that this even happened as sometimes parts of us can still go into shock, believe it or not.

As far as your daughter being 10, well you are the Mom, but perhaps later on down the road perhaps your daughter can make her step-dad a card just to say goodbye. I think your daughter needs to let go and say goodbye. That's just my opinion.

I'm surprised though that the courts aren't involved, they usually offer free counseling to the abuser for his recovery. I'd make a call to your local Sherrif's station or police station or visit your local courthouse and ask for the family court unit. Your local courthouse, City Hall, might be able to point you in the right direction as far as family court help.

There are different sections of courts of law, you need to get set up in the family court system; they can offer free counseling centers and possibly a counselor for your daughter. I think your daughter might need to go to counseling. I might suggest you get her a counselor. She definately needs to realize this is not her daddy anymore, but she may need a way to seek closure, but still know that this is her very beloved little half-sister in the meantime.

I'll be praying for you Pats, and here's how the grieving process works:


1) Shock (disbelief, how could this happen?)
2) Guilt (the "what if only" syndrome; if only I did this; if only I didn't do that)
3) Anger (why did this have to happen?)
4) Depression (grief, sadness, loss)
5) Acceptance

It's normal to have these feelings surface.

And yes, that person can be forgiven, but parts of the grieving process can still happen until you get to the closure 'and' the acceptance.

This is a tough road Pats, but The Lord never forsake me all the way my healing process.

But, I'd definately see if you can get free family counseling through the courts for your family and your daughter. They should have advice on what might be the best way for your daughter to seek closure.

Oh, and in closing, I just wanted to say that sometimes the anger can come just by going into somewhat of a state of shock... it's the 'how could this happen?' that can bring up the feeings of anger. So even write down that you have forgiven this man, but write out perhaps in a letter too how much he has hurt you and just get it all out and hand it over to Jesus. I'm so sorry for you, this is quite a complicated one. Hang in there!

 

[lilymarie]

I thought this website had some good info to pass along to you, and even though you haven't faced a physical death of a loved one; you are still going through the grieving process. Read this weblink and see if it might offer any helpful advice for you. God bless, and all things work together for those who love The Lord, so pray with your children, too. They need that. Check in with us to let us know how things are going for you and your family. (Scroll down the whole weblink; the acceptance part is at the bottom of the page.)

http://msucares.com/pubs/infosheets/is1796.pdf#search=%22The%20Grieving%20Process%20shock%20anger%20guilt%20depression%20acceptance%22

 

[Pats]

My daughter had a counselor she had already been seeing for a while before we knew how bad the abuse had been. She saw that person through her first few months after she told us what had happened as well. Unfortunately, we did have to change her counselor due to insurance. But rest assured, my family is in counseling.

Since we've had to change the children's counselor, I haven't been able to address this issue with my 10 yr old wanting contact with her ex step dad with her counselor. I did talk to her old counselor about it. She didn't really give much advise except to say that her feeling that way was normal.

I appreciate your responses, thanks.

God bless, and all things work together for those who love The Lord, so pray with your children, too.

I do appreciate the thoughts and your sharing your experience, thanks. I've had a hard time in considering this verse these last few months. I am basiclly agnostic in my feeling toward its cryptic message, but thanks for the thoughts.

 

[lilymarie]

My daughter had a counselor she had already been seeing for a while before we knew how bad the abuse had been. She saw that person through her first few months after she told us what had happened as well. Unfortunately, we did have to change her counselor due to insurance. But rest assured, my family is in counseling.

Since we've had to change the children's counselor, I haven't been able to address this issue with my 10 yr old wanting contact with her ex step dad with her counselor. I did talk to her old counselor about it. She didn't really give much advise except to say that her feeling that way was normal.

I appreciate your responses, thanks.



I do appreciate the thoughts and your sharing your experience, thanks. I've had a hard time in considering this verse these last few months. I am basiclly agnostic in my feeling toward its cryptic message, but thanks for the thoughts.

Yes, I can understand Pats how you might feel the way you do about the above. But, like that weblink I gave you on "acceptance"; it doesn't mean that you find what happened acceptable, it merely means that you are willing to accept that this happened; you can't change what happened, but you are willing to head towards a new life, a new beginning with the past left behind, and towards a new life for and with your children.

However, I know you have a complicated matter because this man if your youngest father. That is tough to find closure.

I'm glad to hear you have some counseling. Next step how about until you can get your daughter back to her counselor; can you perhaps look for some new hobbies and interests to get your daughter involved in? Perhaps a project to help children in another country or something like that? Maybe she can organize her classmates to make some gifts or send some toys for Christmas to the children who have none. I've heard Smile of a Child might be good charity as they ask you to send toys, not money. They need dolls (even K-mart type dolls) for girls and trucks and cars for boys.

You need to shift her focus into building a new life and new interests.

What do you think? What about getting her involved in something else to do? Something perhaps all the children can do together?

What would you like to see happen next in your life?

 

[Pats]

Thank you for your understanding.

I have been counseling for all of this for a while. It happened a year ago. I do feel that I have accepted it, although I also understand that grieving of this kind is a process and you often can go back and forth between the stages.

My current views on particular Scriptures have changed and I know some of that was effected by these occurances. But I don't see this in a negative sense.

Of course, my faith was shaken. But God pulled me through all of that and convinced me to remain a Christian.

However, I think there are Scriptures that are at times taken out of context or interpretated to mean things that they may now mean, such as the one you refered to here. However, that is not so much a discussion for this forum.

You need to shift her focus into building a new life and new interests.

What do you think? What about getting her involved in something else to do? Something perhaps all the children can do together?

What would you like to see happen next in your life?

As far as her involvement in projects, yes. She has definately already made a lot of head way in moving on with her life. However, for unrelated reasons to this topic, I have recently gotten my girls involved in a lot of new projects, mostly crafts. They spend entirely too much time whatching TV.

That is a great suggestion. However, in my daughter's case, she has distracted herself from dealing with what happened too much. Her only way of dealing with this has been avoidance. So, distraction is not really what she needs.

 

[lilymarie]

Thank you for your understanding.

I have been counseling for all of this for a while. It happened a year ago. I do feel that I have accepted it, although I also understand that grieving of this kind is a process and you often can go back and forth between the stages.

My current views on particular Scriptures have changed and I know some of that was effected by these occurances. But I don't see this in a negative sense.

Of course, my faith was shaken. But God pulled me through all of that and convinced me to remain a Christian.

However, I think there are Scriptures that are at times taken out of context or interpretated to mean things that they may now mean, such as the one you refered to here. However, that is not so much a discussion for this forum.



As far as her involvement in projects, yes. She has definately already made a lot of head way in moving on with her life. However, for unrelated reasons to this topic, I have recently gotten my girls involved in a lot of new projects, mostly crafts. They spend entirely too much time whatching TV.

That is a great suggestion. However, in my daughter's case, she has distracted herself from dealing with what happened too much. Her only way of dealing with this has been avoidance. So, distraction is not really what she needs.

Yes, I think your daughter might be in denial. Denial is part of the shock aspect; it's like the mind shuts down and goes into denial.

Keeping her involved in other things though is still a good idea. Helping others may help your daughter know she is not the only one who hurts; often by helping others, we find healing, too, as well as a sense of knowing we are not alone. But, this is hard to fathom, I know, when one is only 10 years old. But, I still think her being pro-active in helping other children might give her a sense of self-esteem, while knowing she is bringing good gifts to these children who don't know Jesus nor do they know how much Jesus loves them.

As far as how the process will work to bring her out of denial and find closure, I think that really needs to come from a trained professional in child abuse recovery.

It's going to take awhile as your daughter hasn't been able to find "closure" either.

Did you read that thread I put up on Keep Watering Those Seeds (?)

That children's book Frog and Toad Together sounds adorable.

But all in all Pats, just keep taking one step of faith at a time even though you can't see the whole staircase right now.

 

[rocklife]

I haven't had much experience like what you and your family have been through, dad didn't molest me, but his porn around the house was not a help. anyway, after dad hated me for running away from home and etc, he really turned all his attention to my other brothers and sisters. I was really jealous of that, he was terrible dad, always ignored me, he did punch me out one time, which is why I ran away from home for 2 years.

The jealousy was something I had to deal with on my own, as an adult really. It took a long time to process all that mess. And prayerfully I was able to forgive him. I read some info on forgiveness from a book, and wrote down all that I was angry at for him, past and present, and then forgave it all, and cried. Also realizing he was never going to be a trustworthy loving dad, and wait for things to work out, and I was also there to comfort my brothers and sisters as needed, when I can see rejection from him.

One other big part of healing, was knowing that my mother was supportive of me. She apologized to me for the childhood, and for all the problems and messups. Then she also listened to me, finally. She did not listen to me as a kid and young teen, but after several years apart and finally wanting to be healed, we were able to talk. Talking about the past and all the secret awful things that haunted me was a huge healing part. My mom did not like some of the things I told her, and sometimes things come out here and there, not all at once, over several months or years, and it hurt her to know some of the things I had been in, because she felt so guilty still. But her listening to me, and her support was huge. we did years of counseling during those terrible years, but to be honest, that didn't help me, it was too impersonal, but these other things did help

 

[Pats]

I haven't had much experience like what you and your family have been through, dad didn't molest me, but his porn around the house was not a help. anyway, after dad hated me for running away from home and etc, he really turned all his attention to my other brothers and sisters. I was really jealous of that, he was terrible dad, always ignored me, he did punch me out one time, which is why I ran away from home for 2 years.

The jealousy was something I had to deal with on my own, as an adult really. It took a long time to process all that mess. And prayerfully I was able to forgive him. I read some info on forgiveness from a book, and wrote down all that I was angry at for him, past and present, and then forgave it all, and cried. Also realizing he was never going to be a trustworthy loving dad, and wait for things to work out, and I was also there to comfort my brothers and sisters as needed, when I can see rejection from him.

One other big part of healing, was knowing that my mother was supportive of me. She apologized to me for the childhood, and for all the problems and messups. Then she also listened to me, finally. She did not listen to me as a kid and young teen, but after several years apart and finally wanting to be healed, we were able to talk. Talking about the past and all the secret awful things that haunted me was a huge healing part. My mom did not like some of the things I told her, and sometimes things come out here and there, not all at once, over several months or years, and it hurt her to know some of the things I had been in, because she felt so guilty still. But her listening to me, and her support was huge. we did years of counseling during those terrible years, but to be honest, that didn't help me, it was too impersonal, but these other things did help

Thanks for these words. It's baby steps, but I do forgive him. Even my therapist who is a Christian has a hard time understanding that I forgive him. I don't live with him, and I don't want him around me or my kids right now.

I am judged because I do love him. I try to keep my contact with him at a healthy minimum for us all. I just haven't been able to divorce him yet or cut him out of my life like so many are pressuring me to do.

Does that even make sense?

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Well. I'm a male, so it's kind of funny to talk about what I would do to myself...but...

If I had children...if someone did these things to them...I would give them a strong motivation to make sure that I can't find them. They would move out of the state, out of the country, change their name and certainly not dream of initiating contact with me or my family out of fear for their life.
Anyone who would do that to their children isn't worth the cost of the bullet. But it would be a loss I am willing to bear.

 

[BelindaP]

I agree with LittleLamb that children cling to their abusers. I remember when I was abused by my brother we were kept separate, with him living in a different home. I wanted so badly to be together with him.

Looking back at my motivations, I now see that I was hoping that I would be able to repeat the scenario in which I was abused, but come out of it OK the second time. I don't know why the drive to do this was so strong. It was as if I could buy some kind of redemption by doing this.

Regardless, those in charge of me were much wiser than I and kept us apart. I now know that there was nothing I could have done to have made it not happen. As angry as I was at the time, I am now grateful for their wisdom and foresight.

Children as some of the most forgiving people on this earth. I'm sure that your son and daughter's motivations are such that they think that if they are "good" enough, that everything will be OK for them. As an adult, you know better. They are nowhere near old enough or mature enough to take on a manipulative adult.

You can work with the phone company to block your children from calling your ex's number, and you can set up the computer so that your children can access only pre-determined websites that you choose. You also need to legally separate yourself from him, because it only increases the ambiguity with regard to your children. If you have not legally separated, at the very least, you are also more tied to him financially and legally. As a result, you will have to have more contact with him than necessary.

Also, be very careful with your youngest. Just because she is his natural daughter, that doesn't mean that he won't abuse her. You also need to call the district attorney's office and find out what the hold-up is on the case. It needs to get on the record if you want to sue for sole custody of your daughter. Otherwise, he might win unsupervised visitation or joint custody.

 

[Pats]

Well. I'm a male, so it's kind of funny to talk about what I would do to myself...but...

If I had children...if someone did these things to them...I would give them a strong motivation to make sure that I can't find them. They would move out of the state, out of the country, change their name and certainly not dream of initiating contact with me or my family out of fear for their life.
Anyone who would do that to their children isn't worth the cost of the bullet. But it would be a loss I am willing to bear.

I can understand your personal feelings on this issue, however, that is clearly not what I am feeling called to do.

 

[Pats]

Abused children cling to their abuser. This is common and one of the most harmful and ongoing effects.

I understand that. Hence, extreame caution is in order.

Protect your children from your ex.. and protect them from themselves.. at all costs. If you have to remove your internet connection.. if you have to change your phone number.. block his phone number.. whatever.. keep them away from this evil influence.

This just seems a bit extreame for my tastes. I think in the case of my 5 yr old, this attitude would actually do more harm than good, but thank you for your thoughts.

As a child who was not protected, I cannot tell you the harm that was done.

I am an adult survivor myself. I know the harm that was done even when I never saw my abusers of spoke with them past a very young age.

May the Lord bless you with His abundant wisdom and grace.

LittleLambChild

And may the Lord bless you as well.

 

[Pats]

I hope you guys can understand that I have forgiven him.

Now, it's a matter of balance forgiveness/the will of God/ and safety for my family.

 

[EmberFae]

I still live with mine...I have never been given a chance to get out yet,
Sometimes its ok other times it kills me...I deserved a chance ya know,
It makes me wish things a christian shouldn't wish.

 

[Pats]

I still live with mine...I have never been given a chance to get out yet,
Sometimes its ok other times it kills me...I deserved a chance ya know,
It makes me wish things a christian shouldn't wish.

Oh, I hear that. I am blessed to no longer live with mine. I do still talk to him though and he does post on this forum.

 

[EmberFae]

My blood ran cold when I read that, but I can quite believe it having had some run ins myself on here,

 

[ForHisGlory]

Pats..

If this helps any...I was 22 when my blocks came down and I remembered ALL of my abuse by my father.

Over time, as a Christian, I forgave him, knowing he was sick in the mind..as is anyone who would do these things..and that the alchohol was a major contributor...no excuse..he chose to drink.
But I did forgive....that does NOT mean I forgot, It did not mean even if he hadn't disowned me when I confronted him in his "new life" that I would've ever left him alone with my daughters...
Forgiving doesn't mean becoming trusting to the person.

An abuser doesn't stop..they just get better at hiding it, manipulating, or threatening.
They also make the one they are abusing feel that they are the only one who loves them and that what they are doing is the only "type of love" the person is worthy of.

You need to know though...and it's in my blogs...that every year I still waited for a birthday card, a Christmas card, a letter, an I'm sorry....I still needed, craved, longed for...the love of my "daddy"...and a part of me still does....read my Oct 22 Blog..
This may help you understand your oldest daughters feelings.
Protect your children..they may say they "hate you" for it now...but when they are older they will love and respect you all the more.
You're the adult...God put them in your care to love cherish and protect... our children are not our own..but on loan to us from God.

Hugs and prayers...