Constantine & Christian Doctrine!

[davidoffinland]

From Finland.

Just viewed an new and excellant online, video or audio, on Constantine & Christian doctrine. A slow development from Apostolic authority in the 1st Ct; Through the period of no central authority...a period of development and change; To central authority of the Roman Church & Constantine law....a state within a state whereby those who did not conform were out. A good overview.

Go to:

http://www.tzemach.org/index-eng.htm

Choose the appropriate program for your computer.

Shalom, David.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

This show is theologically way off base. They are part of the "messianic" movement that (IMHO) has a very bad theology, that departs from biblical orthodoxy (right doctrine) at a number of important points.

The Early Church Fathers (I've read a sizable portion of the Early Church Fathers) saw the Church as the true Israel and the unbelieving Israelites as being "broken off" and no longer Israel. (See Romans 11:17-23) It is only when Jews turn to Christ that they are grafted back into the True Israel of God (i.e. the Church of Jesus Christ).

Coram Deo,
Kenith

 

[davidoffinland]

[From Finland.

That is what the church fathers thought and wrote. As they were gentiles, educated in philosophy, even some thought that christianity was a better philosophy. In the 2nd Ct and later, the church tried to distance themselves from the Jewish roots and...the rest is history. Finally, when Constantine became emperor, he was a was a good politican uniting a war-torn empire using christianity as a help.

There were thousands and thousands of Jewish believers in Messiah through the first five centuries that kept up with the daily and shabbat practices. The church even shunned these believers and made laws outlawing Jewish practices.

It was Gentile pride among Roman believers who acted arrogantly or expressing their views against Israel. Paul addresses them by his argument that "the root supports you (11:18). This arrogant attitude still is among christian believers and they need to repent of this attitude.

Shalom, David.


quote=Cajun Huguenot]This show is theologically way off base. They are part of the "messianic" movement that (IMHO) has a very bad theology, that departs from biblical orthodoxy (right doctrine) at a number of important points.

The Early Church Fathers (I've read a sizable portion of the Early Church Fathers) saw the Church as the true Israel and the unbelieving Israelites as being "broken off" and no longer Israel. (See Romans 11:17-23) It is only when Jews turn to Christ that they are grafted back into the True Israel of God (i.e. the Church of Jesus Christ).

Coram Deo,
Kenith[/quote]

 

[Carey]

u will like it

 

[Carey]

This show is theologically way off base. They are part of the "messianic" movement that (IMHO) has a very bad theology, that departs from biblical orthodoxy (right doctrine) at a number of important points.

The Early Church Fathers (I've read a sizable portion of the Early Church Fathers) saw the Church as the true Israel and the unbelieving Israelites as being "broken off" and no longer Israel. (See Romans 11:17-23) It is only when Jews turn to Christ that they are grafted back into the True Israel of God (i.e. the Church of Jesus Christ).

Coram Deo,
Kenith

You are incorrect you probably dont know what a jew is
here is the definiton
Webster Collegiate dictioary for JEW
1: amember of the Tribe of Judea
2 (ironically since palestine did not exist until 70 ad) defintion is a meber of a nation existing in Palestine from the 6th century B.C til the first century a.d
3 a person blongind to a comtiniuationthruogh descent or xonversion of the ancient jewish people
4 a person whos religion is Judaism

 

[Carey]

This show is theologically way off base. They are part of the "messianic" movement that (IMHO) has a very bad theology, that departs from biblical orthodoxy (right doctrine) at a number of important points.

The Early Church Fathers (I've read a sizable portion of the Early Church Fathers) saw the Church as the true Israel and the unbelieving Israelites as being "broken off" and no longer Israel. (See Romans 11:17-23) It is only when Jews turn to Christ that they are grafted back into the True Israel of God (i.e. the Church of Jesus Christ).

Coram Deo,
Kenith

Here is some HistorypleaseI wonder how this appliBefore we discuss the Jews' return to their homeland, let us then look back at history and review briefly what had been happening in the Land of Israel from the time that the Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE, (See Parts 35 thru 37.)
Subsequently, Jerusalem was leveled, rebuilt on the Roman model, and re-named Aeolia Capitolina. The land of Israel was re-named Palestine (after the extinct Phillistines, some of the worst enemies of the Jews in ancient times).
From that time, Jews were barred from Jerusalem. The Byzantine Empire (the Constantinople-based Christian version of the Roman Empire) continued the earlier policy, and Jews were not allowed into Jerusalem until the Muslims conquered the Byzantines in 638 CE. (See Part 42.)
Once the Muslims took over the Land of Israel, they held onto it with the brief exception of the period of the Crusades. (See Part 45.)
The Turkish Ottoman Empire held onto power here the longest: from 1518 to 1917. Yet, during all this time, the Muslims generally treated the Holy Land as a backwater province. There was virtually no attempt to make Jerusalem, which was quite run-down, an important capital city nor to improve its infrastructure (save for the re-building of the walls of the city in 16th century during the reign of Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent.) Similarly, only limited building went on in the rest of the land, which was barren and not populated by many Arabs. The only major new city built was Ramle, which served as the Ottoman administrative center.
Mark Twain who visited Israel in 1867 described it like this in Innocents Abroad

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

remember what the messenger sent by G_d, Paul, said: there are already wolves among us, ready to tear the flock apart when I am gone.

thus it happened, just as it is written.

so don't put too much (or any) trust in the so-called c.f. .
(they depart substantially from Scripture)
(you don't have to read the c.f. - it only leads to error.)

Anyone; read the Bible, read it again and again, devour it for love of truth.
then, if G_d permits, you may know the truth, and it will set you free.

 

[thereselittleflower]

remember what the messenger sent by G_d, Paul, said: there are already wolves among us, ready to tear the flock apart when I am gone.

thus it happened, just as it is written.

so don't put too much (or any) trust in the so-called c.f. .
(they depart substantially from Scripture)
(you don't have to read the c.f. - it only leads to error.)

Anyone; read the Bible, read it again and again, devour it for love of truth.
then, if G_d permits, you may know the truth, and it will set you free.

I am not sure I understand. . . were the cfs in the Council of Nicea in error then? Was their teaching on the nature of Christ, etc in error?


Peace

 

[S Walch]

I am not sure I understand. . . were the cfs in the Council of Nicea in error then? Was their teaching on the nature of Christ, etc in error?


Peace

Just because they had truth doesn't mean they were free from error.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Just because they had truth doesn't mean they were free from error.

That was non-responsive to my question and it was asked of a specific member. Someone else answering will not answer my question.


Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

There is no promise in scripture for the Jews to return to their literal homeland after the Temple was destroyed in 70 Ad and Jerusalem sacked.



Peace

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

i'm real tired and going to sleep in a few, but i think this is the beginning of the answer to the question a few posts back:

http://www.essene.com/History&Essenes/Exec.htm
(and the land is still the promise, no new promise needed, Yahweh will always accomplish His Word, though man ignores or corrupts it - re re check history, keep looking for the Truth; a lot of surprises in store for everyone)

or. more simply, as Paul said, the power of the Gospel is Messiah Crucified -

that which is added is not allowed, and brings a curse.
that which is subtracted is not allowed, and removes right to tree of life.

not exact quote, but pointing to right direction instead of wrong direction.( toward Yahweh; away from Yahweh , no inbetween).

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

i'm real tired and going to sleep in a few, but i think this is the beginning of the answer to the question a few posts back:
....as Paul said, the power of the Gospel is Messiah Crucified -

that which is added is not allowed, and brings a curse.
that which is subtracted is not allowed, and removes right to tree of life.
.

So, since the Septuagent was the OT Scripture used in Palistine at the time of Christand by the Apostles, the removal of the books 1600 years later is not allowed.

Yours in Christ.

 

[S Walch]

So, since the Septuagent was the OT Scripture used in Palistine at the time of Christand by the Apostles, the removal of the books 1600 years later is not allowed.

Yours in Christ.

Obviously you didn't know that they read from Hebrew copies of the Old Testament in Israel at the time of Yahushua the Messiah.

 

[Grego]

​

Checkout ( St. Mark 7:6-7) is a quote from the Septuagint version of Isaiah.

And (St. John 10:22-36) where Jesus and His Apostles are celebrating Hanukkah which is the anniversary of events only recorded in the Books of Maccabees!

 

[S Walch]

Checkout ( St. Mark 7:6-7) is a quote from the Septuagint version of Isaiah.

It aso happens to be the exact same reading from the Great Isaiah scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls manuscript, which is actually older than any Greek manuscript we have of chapter 29 of the book of Isaiah.

And (St. John 10:22-36) where Jesus and His Apostles are celebrating Hanukkah which is the anniversary of events only recorded in the Books of Maccabees!

John never says they were "celebrating" Hanukkah, just that they were there at the time of it.

I've used this example many times before.

But just because someone wrote that I was "in New York at the time of the Mardi Gra festival" is not saying that I was there to celebrate it, it just happened to be the time I was there. It's a way of telling people at what time the discourse of John 10:22-42 took place.