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conspiracies?

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applepowerpc

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If you really want to assult my argument, and many others, then you would do well to address the Rothschilds. That is how I went from a staunch Zionist, raised from my father who tuned into The 700 club, "Today in Bible Prophecy with Charles Taylor, Hal Linsey etc. etc .


I am a former staunch Christian Zionist myself. I hope that that helps get the message through to so many Christians. Read: we are CHRISTIANS, and former supporters of Israel. That should make you think twice--WHY did we do that? There is a reason.... And it's not just because we got "filled with Satan" and just got jealous because they're "God's chosen people" and we're not.

I Peter 2:9 But *YOU* are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
 
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gwynedd1

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romanov said:
So you agree with me we should let Isreal do as they see fit. Let them end it or be distroyed, whatever is God's will.

Nope.
It really, really helps to read your bible. No kidding.

Matt 5
14: Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15: Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

We are not intruments of God's judgments nor are we told to fulfill prophesy. We are told to stand up for righteousness.
Live and let die was Paul Mccartney.
 
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gwynedd1

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applepowerpc said:
I am a former staunch Christian Zionist myself. I hope that that helps get the message through to so many Christians. Read: we are CHRISTIANS, and former supporters of Israel. That should make you think twice--WHY did we do that? There is a reason.... And it's not just because we got "filled with Satan" and just got jealous because they're "God's chosen people" and we're not.

I Peter 2:9 But *YOU* are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Well said.

Pat Robertson calling for assinations and discussing Israel's battle readiness should also be a clue. How many time do we have to post this?

9: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Christians are FORBIDDEN from this stuff.

Rome 12

17: Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18: If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19: Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20: Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21: Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
 
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applepowerpc

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Well said.

Pat Robertson calling for assinations and discussing Israel's battle readiness should also be a clue. How many time do we have to post this?

9: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Christians are FORBIDDEN from this stuff.


So, on Pat Robertson calling for assassinating Chavez, he apologized, so I'm ready to move on with that. Agree?

About Christians being peacemakers, all of us think we're being peacemakers, right? Even when I supported Israel, I thought I was supporting peace because I believed terrorists didn't want peace, and must be quashed. Right? It's just that the many well-meaning Christian Zionists (which is really a misnomer) have a completely different view of the world. I mean, when you "take the black pill" (borrowing from "The Matrix") and you finally see what Israel, etc. is really about, that changes EVERYTHING. Changes everything you see on the news, changes your End Times view, changes your political affiliations, everything.
 
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gwynedd1

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applepowerpc said:
So, on Pat Robertson calling for assassinating Chavez, he apologized, so I'm ready to move on with that. Agree?

About Christians being peacemakers, all of us think we're being peacemakers, right? Even when I supported Israel, I thought I was supporting peace because I believed terrorists didn't want peace, and must be quashed. Right? It's just that the many well-meaning Christian Zionists (which is really a misnomer) have a completely different view of the world. I mean, when you "take the black pill" (borrowing from "The Matrix") and you finally see what Israel, etc. is really about, that changes EVERYTHING. Changes everything you see on the news, changes your End Times view, changes your political affiliations, everything.

He was just in Israel supporting the Israeli position. He has not repented. If you take up arms you are in a state of sin. War is collective punishment and even self defense arguments do not prevail. I have found it very difficult to even justify self defense with scripture but I find it full of blessing your enemy. However in war there is no trial, no looking at evidence, nothing.
 
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IisJustMe

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applepowerpc said:
I mean, when you "take the black pill" (borrowing from "The Matrix") and you finally see what Israel, etc. is really about, that changes EVERYTHING.
.. it would be "take the blue (or red) pill." The blue pill reveals the truth. Then again, maybe you had it right, taking a black pill. I assume that's how you reached the erroneous conclusions about Israel that you post on the boards. Maybe the black pill shows you the lies, but you swallow it as truth.
 
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IisJustMe

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applepowerpc said:
Any particular erroneous conclusion you want to discuss? How about the one about Israel being allegedly "God's chosen people"? The way I reach the conclusion that that's a lot of hooey comes from the New Testament, that speak directly to the contrary.
Nowhere in the New Testament is the Abrahamic Covenant abrogated, transferred, or otherwise rendered null and void. If you can show me something proving that, I'd be delighted to see it. But you can't, though I'm sure you imagine otherwise. Please feel free to post it. I'll be happy to show you how you're wrong.
 
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gwynedd1

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IisJustMe said:
Nowhere in the New Testament is the Abrahamic Covenant abrogated, transferred, or otherwise rendered null and void. If you can show me something proving that, I'd be delighted to see it. But you can't, though I'm sure you imagine otherwise. Please feel free to post it. I'll be happy to show you how you're wrong.

Is the Old Testament OK?

Jer 31
[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The covenant was BROKEN.

Zech 11
[9] Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
[10] And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it assunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
[11] And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
[12] And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
[13] And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
[14] Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

God's covenant cannot be broken?

Gen 17
13] He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
[14] And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Here is some from the new.
Heb 8

[6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 10

15] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
[16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[17] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Heb 12

24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
[25] See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
 
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gwynedd1

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applepowerpc said:
Okay. You're against war in general. Not all Christians believe that. And I agree, Pat Robertson is NOT a well-meaning Christian Zionist. He's familiar with the area. He knows better.

I am uncertain about self defence. I am even more uncertain about defending another. However in those case one is actually present. What I have not seen since I have been alive , is this country doing everything possible to avoid war which would includes blessing your enemy. He should know better. Christians should be leading the charge for peace. Our reaction to "Islamic violence" should be feeding poor Islamic children. As to the assination comment, he may be forgiven but it was , as far as I am concerned, time for him to stop teaching and step down.
 
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applepowerpc

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Nowhere in the New Testament is the Abrahamic Covenant abrogated, transferred, or otherwise rendered null and void. If you can show me something proving that, I'd be delighted to see it. But you can't, though I'm sure you imagine otherwise


How about that it never applied to Israel in the first place?

Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.


Also, nowhere in Scripture was the Davidic Covenant abrogated, repealed, etc etc etc. either. God promised a son of David would reign over Israel for all time. Is Olmert a son of David? Ariel Sharon? How about Golda Meir--was she secretly a man? Following your own logic--God broke covenant!
 
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