conspiracies?

[gwynedd1]

There are those that discount entirely deceptive warfare as wild conspiricies. Given something like the following, I would ask why? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

 

[Driver]

Operation Northwoods came the year after the failed CIA-sponsered Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961. JFK rejected Operation Northwoods, and after the Bay of Pigs, JFK vowed to tear the CIA apart into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds. All of this could be connected to the JFK assassination mystery.

 

[gwynedd1]

Operation Northwoods came the year after the failed CIA-sponsered Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961. JFK rejected Operation Northwoods, and after the Bay of Pigs, JFK vowed to tear the CIA apart into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds. All of this could be connected to the JFK assassination mystery.

Found this today http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/06/rs.01.html KURTZ: All right, Matthew Chance, stand by, thank you for that report. We will come back to you. And joining us now here Washington Anne Compton who covers the White House for ABC News, and Thomas Ricks, Pentagon reporter for "The Washington Post" and author of the new book "Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq." Tom Ricks, you've covered a number of military conflicts, including Iraq, as I just mentioned. Is civilian casualties increasingly going to be a major media issue? In conflicts where you don't have two standing armies shooting at each other? THOMAS RICKS, REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I think it will be. But I think civilian casualties are also part of the battlefield play for both sides here. One of the things that is going on, according to some U.S. military analysts, is that Israel purposely has left pockets of Hezbollah rockets in Lebanon, because as long as they're being rocketed, they can continue to have a sort of moral equivalency in their operations in Lebanon. KURTZ: Hold on, you're suggesting that Israel has deliberately allowed Hezbollah to retain some of it's fire power, essentially for PR purposes, because having Israeli civilians killed helps them in the public relations war here? RICKS: Yes, that's what military analysts have told me.

 

[Driver]

Operation Northwoods, although rejected by JFK, is definitely "accepted policy" in spy agencies today.

It's interesting that George H.W. Bush, whom CIA headquarters in named for, was a employee of the CIA back then:

There is evidence that George Bush's involvement with the CIA dates back at least as far back as the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, which was given the CIA code name Operation Zapata. The names of the ships used for the invasion were Houston, Zapata and Barbara. Bush's oil company at the time was Zapata Oil, based in Houston. Bush had named his plane in World War II "Barbara."

On November 29, 1963, a week after the assassination of JFK, a memo was issued by J. Edgar Hoover saying "Mr. George Bush of the CIA had been briefed on November 23rd, 1963 about the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami to the assassination of President Kennedy."
​

http://www.davidcogswell.com/Essays/Northwoods911.html

 

[Driver]

Interesting video on the JFK assassination and possible CIA connections (view with discretion)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9137354720737304741&q=jfk+assassination

 

[IisJustMe]

I really love this part ...

KURTZ: Hold on, you're suggesting that Israel has deliberately allowed Hezbollah to retain some of it's fire power, essentially for PR purposes, because having Israeli civilians killed helps them in the public relations war here?
RICKS: Yes, that's what military analysts have told me.

I note that Kurtz, the every vigilant journalist fails in his obvious responsibility to require Ricks to cite his sources. Sorry, but the obscure 'military analysts' is not a valid source. Ricks could talk to a raving maniac who considers himself an analyst and have a valid cover for his statement. That, by the way, is pretty much how he wrote his joke of a book cited by Kurtz in his introduction. Real military analysts, such as those at the Pentagon and those who have retired from active military duty, have exposed Ricks' 'analysis' of the Iraq War as a huge pile of male bovine excrement, largely made up and lifted out of context. Ricks is a left wingnut liberal hack, his career married to the liberal viewpoint and fearful of saying anything that doesn't please them.

 

[gwynedd1]

I really love this part ...
I note that Kurtz, the every vigilant journalist fails in his obvious responsibility to require Ricks to cite his sources. Sorry, but the obscure 'military analysts' is not a valid source. Ricks could talk to a raving maniac who considers himself an analyst and have a valid cover for his statement. That, by the way, is pretty much how he wrote his joke of a book cited by Kurtz in his introduction. Real military analysts, such as those at the Pentagon and those who have retired from active military duty, have exposed Ricks' 'analysis' of the Iraq War as a huge pile of male bovine excrement, largely made up and lifted out of context. Ricks is a left wingnut liberal hack, his career married to the liberal viewpoint and fearful of saying anything that doesn't please them.

And you fail to see the important point. It does not matter if it is a credible witness. I have news for you "ALL SOURCES ARE SUSPECT". Did you hear that? That is why police look at things like motive. It is in Israels benefit for rockets to fall in Israel if they wish to conduct operations in Lebanon. The reports only add to it.
Lets look at common sense. I have an older brother. I knew I would lose every fight, so I avoided them. Now I had a friend who had a little brother but his mother would often intervene on his behalf. In this case he could depend on political support. Does any Islamic country have that? War is a loss to Lebanon. Who would destroy their own country after digging out of the rubble? This is unusual and it does not condemn Israel but does put a burden of proof upon them. Given their UN bombing and blaming Hezbollah in the face of UN saying it was IDF, then it is clear they flunked.


I have not forgotten this. It is typical.


http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1062222006

"And a United Nations-run observation post just inside Israel was hit during fighting between Israel and Hezbollah militants. The Israeli army blamed Hezbollah rockets, but a UN officer said it was an artillery shell fired by Israel."

 

[IisJustMe]

It is in Israels benefit for rockets to fall in Israel if they wish to conduct operations in Lebanon. The reports only add to it.

... you're welcome to them. Please don't try to lend credence to them because an unhinged leftie who can claim the mantle of 'journalist' based on his current employment and recent book publication says they're so. This is the same crock of horse manure that the conspiracy nuts pulled the 'US government brought down the WTC' nonsense out of. Get a life, and until you do, don't burden us with stories that are more properly published in the grocery market rag, 'World News.'

 

[gwynedd1]

... you're welcome to them. Please don't try to lend credence to them because an unhinged leftie who can claim the mantle of 'journalist' based on his current employment and recent book publication says they're so. This is the same crock of horse manure that the conspiracy nuts pulled the 'US government brought down the WTC' nonsense out of. Get a life, and until you do, don't burden us with stories that are more properly published in the grocery market rag, 'World News.'

Why don't you discuss Operation Northwoods? I have yet to see a mature or substantive post from you. What do you think you accomplish with your cliched colloquial quips?
A quote like this fits right in.
"What kind of nut bag thinks Jesus Christ was Resurrected?"

 

[applepowerpc]

It is in Israels benefit for rockets to fall in Israel if they wish to conduct operations in Lebanon. The reports only add to it.

In fact:

"Over half the civilian casualties of the rockets fired by Hezballah have been Palestinian Muslims and Christian in the Galilee and Haifa. The Hezbullah "rockets" are inaccurate and have resulted in limited civilian casualties (hezbollah started shelling these locations only after Israel used precision guided bombs to target Lebanese civilians). By contrast, over 50 Israeli soldiers have been killed in fighting with Hezballah fighters (the number of Hezbollah fighters killed is unknown perhaps as low as 35 and as high as 250). Hezballah is a few thousand guirillas, Israel has mandatory service (up to three years and then lifetime service) thus meaning that nearly 2.8 million are available for service (CIA fact sheet). But Israel's racism shows no bounds: There are no public shelters in any of the Arab communities in the Galilee (these are all Israeli citizens) and thus of the civilians killed in Northern Israel, over half are Palestinian citizens in the north. Palestinian citizens even complain about absence of sirens (plentiful in the Jewish areas). The articles below are selected from the past few days of items not covered in mainstream US media (for obvious reasons-- that if the US public would be allowed to hear and see things as they are, they would be up in arms)."


source: Mazin Qumsiyeh
http://qumsiyeh.org

 

[romanov]

I really love this part ...
I note that Kurtz, the every vigilant journalist fails in his obvious responsibility to require Ricks to cite his sources. Sorry, but the obscure 'military analysts' is not a valid source. Ricks could talk to a raving maniac who considers himself an analyst and have a valid cover for his statement. That, by the way, is pretty much how he wrote his joke of a book cited by Kurtz in his introduction. Real military analysts, such as those at the Pentagon and those who have retired from active military duty, have exposed Ricks' 'analysis' of the Iraq War as a huge pile of male bovine excrement, largely made up and lifted out of context. Ricks is a left wingnut liberal hack, his career married to the liberal viewpoint and fearful of saying anything that doesn't please them.

I think I found some of Ricks' unnamed sources in this thread.

 

[romanov]

... you're welcome to them. Please don't try to lend credence to them because an unhinged leftie who can claim the mantle of 'journalist' based on his current employment and recent book publication says they're so. This is the same crock of horse manure that the conspiracy nuts pulled the 'US government brought down the WTC' nonsense out of. Get a life, and until you do, don't burden us with stories that are more properly published in the grocery market rag, 'World News.'

Look at that crowd, there's pademonium down there!

 

[romanov]

In fact:

"Over half the civilian casualties of the rockets fired by Hezballah have been Palestinian Muslims and Christian in the Galilee and Haifa. The Hezbullah "rockets" are inaccurate and have resulted in limited civilian casualties (hezbollah started shelling these locations only after Israel used precision guided bombs to target Lebanese civilians). By contrast, over 50 Israeli soldiers have been killed in fighting with Hezballah fighters (the number of Hezbollah fighters killed is unknown perhaps as low as 35 and as high as 250). Hezballah is a few thousand guirillas, Israel has mandatory service (up to three years and then lifetime service) thus meaning that nearly 2.8 million are available for service (CIA fact sheet). But Israel's racism shows no bounds: There are no public shelters in any of the Arab communities in the Galilee (these are all Israeli citizens) and thus of the civilians killed in Northern Israel, over half are Palestinian citizens in the north. Palestinian citizens even complain about absence of sirens (plentiful in the Jewish areas). The articles below are selected from the past few days of items not covered in mainstream US media (for obvious reasons-- that if the US public would be allowed to hear and see things as they are, they would be up in arms)."


source: Mazin Qumsiyeh
http://qumsiyeh.org

Ok, operation Northwoods is a piece of paper. It was never implemented. Why, I don't know. I'll be the first to admit that I don't trust my government as far as I can throw it. Makes me wonder how many Operation Northwoods there are out there. Also I have to admit that I am dubious as to it's validity.

I'm also dubious as to the validity of all this conspiracy theory hooplah that you, poke and company come up with. You come up with all these wild acusations about Zionism, the Rothchilds, flags and Israeli racism. You quote sources that by and large are propaganda rags. I mean, The Guardian and The Scotsman; I mean really. You tout them as trumpeters of the truth solely because they agree with you. Instead of ragging on Israel for being supposedly racist, when there is no real proof, why don't you go off on Hezbollah, Hamas and the PLO for their actual stated racism against Jews and Christians.

Now I'll honestly state this whole mess was created by other folks sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. That is a point of fact that can't be denied. All of I'll heard from you guys is wild eyed rants. What would you do to fix the problem? We got into this mess by trying to "fix" and ancient wrong. Now how would you fix this modern wrong?

 

[gwynedd1]

Ok, operation Northwoods is a piece of paper. It was never implemented. Why, I don't know. I'll be the first to admit that I don't trust my government as far as I can throw it. Makes me wonder how many Operation Northwoods there are out there. Also I have to admit that I am dubious as to it's validity.

I'm also dubious as to the validity of all this conspiracy theory hooplah that you, poke and company come up with. You come up with all these wild acusations about Zionism, the Rothchilds, flags and Israeli racism. You quote sources that by and large are propaganda rags. I mean, The Guardian and The Scotsman; I mean really. You tout them as trumpeters of the truth solely because they agree with you. Instead of ragging on Israel for being supposedly racist, when there is no real proof, why don't you go off on Hezbollah, Hamas and the PLO for their actual stated racism against Jews and Christians.

Now I'll honestly state this whole mess was created by other folks sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. That is a point of fact that can't be denied. All of I'll heard from you guys is wild eyed rants. What would you do to fix the problem? We got into this mess by trying to "fix" and ancient wrong. Now how would you fix this modern wrong?

By not going to war or if it be God's will witness against it as we Christians are commanded to we. We are salt. I can find sources in India and China that mirror, the Scotsman, even ABC but the headline read "Hezbollah rockets" even as the UN quoted the same IDF artillery. The USS Liberty is one that was implimented but failed because the IDF could not sink it. http://www.ussliberty.org/ These wars we keep frivolously entering into, cheered on by Christians in direct oppostion to Christ's teaching, are largely frauds. It is done to drive nations into perpetual debt and it has worked. There is simply no understanding of what I say unless you look into the 19th century. I used to agree with your position, however my predilection for Ancient and Mideval history in the past had me missing this badly until recently. The 19th century is as much a history about banking as any other issue http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/jackson/6-2.html Matt 5 9: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. 10: Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11: Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Now will you sobery reason this out?

 

[gwynedd1]

Ok, operation Northwoods is a piece of paper. It was never implemented. Why, I don't know. I'll be the first to admit that I don't trust my government as far as I can throw it. Makes me wonder how many Operation Northwoods there are out there. Also I have to admit that I am dubious as to it's validity.

I'm also dubious as to the validity of all this conspiracy theory hooplah that you, poke and company come up with. You come up with all these wild acusations about Zionism, the Rothchilds, flags and Israeli racism. You quote sources that by and large are propaganda rags. I mean, The Guardian and The Scotsman; I mean really. You tout them as trumpeters of the truth solely because they agree with you. Instead of ragging on Israel for being supposedly racist, when there is no real proof, why don't you go off on Hezbollah, Hamas and the PLO for their actual stated racism against Jews and Christians.

Now I'll honestly state this whole mess was created by other folks sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. That is a point of fact that can't be denied. All of I'll heard from you guys is wild eyed rants. What would you do to fix the problem? We got into this mess by trying to "fix" and ancient wrong. Now how would you fix this modern wrong?

I should mention Biddle was the central banker of the 3rd Bank ofthe United States and he and Jackson locked horns.

 

[applepowerpc]

The USS Liberty is one that was implimented but failed because the IDF could not sink it. http://www.ussliberty.org/

You think the U.S.S. Liberty was bad, check out the Lavon Affair. The goal was to get the U.S. to NUKE Egypt on Israel's behalf. Not invade. Nuke.

 

[gwynedd1]

You think the U.S.S. Liberty was bad, check out the Lavon Affair. The goal was to get the U.S. to NUKE Egypt on Israel's behalf. Not invade. Nuke.

I knew about that one but the nuke part is news to me. That is alarming.

 

[romanov]

By not going to war or if it be God's will witness against it as we Christians are commanded to we. We are salt.

Something I hate to do but put this to the side for the moment.

I can find sources in India and China that mirror, the Scotsman, even ABC but the headline read "Hezbollah rockets" even as the UN quoted the same IDF artillery.

There are Muslim influenced newspapers in India. India is having their own problems with Muslims right now.

China, I wouldn't call a friend of Israel either. China wants to be a super power. They want to knock us down a peg or two so they are going to support whoever is against us. The enemy of your enemy is your friend kind of thing.

The UN. Real friend and ally of Israel. See the above paragraph about China. The UN wants to be a super power too.

The USS Liberty is one that was implimented but failed because the IDF could not sink it.

Flat out, I've read both sides of that issue. I honestly don't know who to believe. Like I said, I don't trust my government as far as I can throw it. Let me ammend that. I don't trust any government as far as I can throw it. Same token though, if you asked any eyewitness about what happened, how it happened, etc...If you have 5 witnesses, you will have 5 stories.

But let's say for the sake of argument, the Israeli government ordered the Liberty sank. Why would they do that? Maybe its because Israel felt that the US government was sticking it's nose where it didn't belong. I believe that in 1948 the UN, the US, the Brits, everybody should have kept their nose out of other peoples business. Period. End of subject because the constant cease fires and DMZ's and treaties and you name it has only drug this mess out and more people have died over the last 60 years than would have died if Israel had been allowed to do their thing.

These wars we keep frivolously entering into, cheered on by Christians in direct oppostion to Christ's teaching, are largely frauds.

Back to the Christian thing then. Paraphrasing, "No man shows greater love than when he dies for a friend."

It is done to drive nations into perpetual debt and it has worked.

Back to the government thing. The US has no business sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. In the case of Israel, Jews lived in that area for God knows how long. Jews were living there before 1881. Jews were living there after 1881. Palestine was the name given by the Romans to Israel. Palestinians was the name given by the Romans to the people who lived in Israel. In other words, Jews.

One can argue back and forth whether or not the Jews and the "Palestinians" had a right to their own country. Both parties were given their own country, right or wrong. The "Palestinians" wanted it all and they chose throw their lot in with an Egyptian.

There is simply no understanding of what I say unless you look into the 19th century. I used to agree with your position, however my predilection for Ancient and Mideval history in the past had me missing this badly until recently. The 19th century is as much a history about banking as any other issue

Rothschilds right? Got it. Anyway...*sigh*

Matt 5 9: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. 10: Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11: Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Now will you sobery reason this out?

I have. My question to you again is what is your solution to the problem? How many people are you willing to let die?

 

[gwynedd1]

Something I hate to do but put this to the side for the moment.



There are Muslim influenced newspapers in India. India is having their own problems with Muslims right now.

China, I wouldn't call a friend of Israel either. China wants to be a super power. They want to knock us down a peg or two so they are going to support whoever is against us. The enemy of your enemy is your friend kind of thing.

The UN. Real friend and ally of Israel. See the above paragraph about China. The UN wants to be a super power too.

Flat out, I've read both sides of that issue. I honestly don't know who to believe. Like I said, I don't trust my government as far as I can throw it. Let me ammend that. I don't trust any government as far as I can throw it. Same token though, if you asked any eyewitness about what happened, how it happened, etc...If you have 5 witnesses, you will have 5 stories.

ABC had that in the news but their headline was "Hezbollah Rockets"

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2219766

What does the tiny little text say?

"A U.N. officer, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation, said an artillery shell fired by Israel made "a direct hit on the U.N. position overlooking Zarit." The post is part of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon."

This is not the media in the US
http://www.easybourse.com/Website/dy...NewsRubrique=2

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin...9y6&n=81164994
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/art/200...non_border.htm

Who has objective media here?

We may question many things however this has proved beyond any doubt that US media is corrupted by bias. They cannot be trusted. I do not need to guess here.

But let's say for the sake of argument, the Israeli government ordered the Liberty sank. Why would they do that? Maybe its because Israel felt that the US government was sticking it's nose where it didn't belong. I believe that in 1948 the UN, the US, the Brits, everybody should have kept their nose out of other peoples business. Period. End of subject because the constant cease fires and DMZ's and treaties and you name it has only drug this mess out and more people have died over the last 60 years than would have died if Israel had been allowed to do their thing.

If you look at anything in Isolation it will be more difficult to see the obvious, however the Levon Affair shows the pattern of a false flag. I view it as a pretext to attack Eygypt. Any other explanation is weak. There was no justification that is certain and Israel has only covered it up.

Back to the Christian thing then. Paraphrasing, "No man shows greater love than when he dies for a friend."

Back to the government thing. The US has no business sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. In the case of Israel, Jews lived in that area for God knows how long. Jews were living there before 1881. Jews were living there after 1881. Palestine was the name given by the Romans to Israel. Palestinians was the name given by the Romans to the people who lived in Israel. In other words, Jews.

One can argue back and forth whether or not the Jews and the "Palestinians" had a right to their own country. Both parties were given their own country, right or wrong. The "Palestinians" wanted it all and they chose throw their lot in with an Egyptian.

The 1967 borders would be a start. I know that is not what they want. I linger in the forums and many paste in Ezekiel prophesies about the distruction of Damascus and Tyre. This is not in a Christian context natually

Rothschilds right? Got it. Anyway...*sigh*

I have. My question to you again is what is your solution to the problem? How many people are you willing to let die?

We should have let the people on the Lusitania die and jailed Woodrow Wilson and JP Morgan for a start. They would have saved more than a 100 million lives.

If you really want to assult my argument, and many others, then you would do well to address the Rothschilds. That is how I went from a staunch Zionist, raised from my father who tuned into The 700 club, "Today in Bible Prophecy with Charles Taylor, Hal Linsey etc. etc .

I believe that the Rothschilds dynasty controls half the worlds wealth in the range of 300-400 trillion dollars. You will not find this in the news because they own the news. That is why history pre-1930s though it may bore some people is the only way to grasp what has happened. We know what happened in Russia. We know what would have happended if the Nazis won. I think the money behind these groups has never left us.

Now what do you think JFK was talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvaZ9pXvYTg&search=illuminati

 

[romanov]

ABC had that in the news but their headline was "Hezbollah Rockets"

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2219766

What does the tiny little text say?

"A U.N. officer, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation, said an artillery shell fired by Israel made "a direct hit on the U.N. position overlooking Zarit." The post is part of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon."

This is not the media in the US
http://www.easybourse.com/Website/dy...NewsRubrique=2

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin...9y6&n=81164994
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/art/200...non_border.htm

Who has objective media here?

We may question many things however this has proved beyond any doubt that US media is corrupted by bias. They cannot be trusted. I do not need to guess here.



If you look at anything in Isolation it will be more difficult to see the obvious, however the Levon Affair shows the pattern of a false flag. I view it as a pretext to attack Eygypt. Any other explanation is weak. There was no justification that is certain and Israel has only covered it up.


The 1967 borders would be a start. I know that is not what they want. I linger in the forums and many paste in Ezekiel prophesies about the distruction of Damascus and Tyre. This is not in a Christian context natually



We should have let the people on the Lusitania die and jailed Woodrow Wilson and JP Morgan for a start. They would have saved more than a 100 million lives.

If you really want to assult my argument, and many others, then you would do well to address the Rothschilds. That is how I went from a staunch Zionist, raised from my father who tuned into The 700 club, "Today in Bible Prophecy with Charles Taylor, Hal Linsey etc. etc .

I believe that the Rothschilds dynasty controls half the worlds wealth in the range of 300-400 trillion dollars. You will not find this in the news because they own the news. That is why history pre-1930s though it may bore some people is the only way to grasp what has happened. We know what happened in Russia. We know what would have happended if the Nazis won. I think the money behind these groups has never left us.

So you agree with me we should let Isreal do as they see fit. Let them end it or be distroyed, whatever is God's will.