Considering Methodism - A couple of questions.

[GracetotheHumble]

Hi, I am considering becoming a Methodist but I have a couple of questions.

1. Which Methodist denominations do not allow homosexuality and consider it sinful?

2. Are there any Methodist denominations that do not ordain women?

3. What is the Methodist teaching concerning eschatology?

4. What can you tell me specifically about being a Methodist - please share your testimony.

 

[GraceSeeker]

GracetotheHumble, I'm going to answer these questions using the wordage that you have used. You might find more nuance if I were to write otherwise, but I don't want to avoid the question you've asked by changing the wordage to answer one I'm more comfortable with.

1. Which Methodist denominations do not allow homosexuality and consider it sinful?

The United Methodist denomination allows homosexuality among its members, but not the practice of it among its clergy, and considers the practice of it incompatible with the teaching of the Christian scriptures. We do not officially use the term "sin" with regard to it any differently than we do any other activity that is incompatible with Christian teaching.

Free Methodists and Wesleyan Churches tend to be more conservative on this issue than the UMC, but I don't know their official positions.

2. Are there any Methodist denominations that do not ordain women?

To my knowledge, all of the major Methodist denominations do ordain women. I'm always learning that there are smaller splinter groups that I have never heard of before. Perhaps among these that number in the couple of dozen congregations there may be one or more that does not. I don't know.

3. What is the Methodist teaching concerning eschatology?

The Christ will come again to raise the living and the dead, and when he does he will reconcile the world to himself in all things, and then rule it forever.

4. What can you tell me specifically about being a Methodist - please share your testimony.

That's really too long for just a part of a post. So, briefly, I was raised a Methodist, the son of a pastor. Until the age of 16 it was just something that I did without much thinking involved. Then, through the sharing of a lovefeast, I had my eyes awakened to the reality that Christ's death on the cross wasn't just an interesting bit of history, it was something that involved me. I became aware that I believed that if I had been the only person in the world that Christ had needed to die for to redeem me from my sins, that he would have done so. And in that moment I realized not just that he loved me, but that I also loved him and wanted to live my life for him. And that is what I have been doing ever since.

Methodism is about a disciplined, pragmatic approach to life in the service of God. We allow a lot of latitude for people who think differently than we do personally to also be part of us as long as they are going in the same direction that we are -- that is all honor Jesus as Lord, and living as servants of his here and not yet Kingdom.

 

[GracetotheHumble]

GracetotheHumble, I'm going to answer these questions using the wordage that you have used. You might find more nuance if I were to write otherwise, but I don't want to avoid the question you've asked by changing the wordage to answer one I'm more comfortable with.


The United Methodist denomination allows homosexuality among its members, but not the practice of it among its clergy, and considers the practice of it incompatible with the teaching of the Christian scriptures. We do not officially use the term "sin" with regard to it any differently than we do any other activity that is incompatible with Christian teaching.

Free Methodists and Wesleyan Churches tend to be more conservative on this issue than the UMC, but I don't know their official positions.

To my knowledge, all of the major Methodist denominations do ordain women. I'm always learning that there are smaller splinter groups that I have never heard of before. Perhaps among these that number in the couple of dozen congregations there may be one or more that does not. I don't know.


The Christ will come again to raise the living and the dead, and when he does he will reconcile the world to himself in all things, and then rule it forever.

That's really too long for just a part of a post. So, briefly, I was raised a Methodist, the son of a pastor. Until the age of 16 it was just something that I did without much thinking involved. Then, through the sharing of a lovefeast, I had my eyes awakened to the reality that Christ's death on the cross wasn't just an interesting bit of history, it was something that involved me. I became aware that I believed that if I had been the only person in the world that Christ had needed to die for to redeem me from my sins, that he would have done so. And in that moment I realized not just that he loved me, but that I also loved him and wanted to live my life for him. And that is what I have been doing ever since.

Methodism is about a disciplined, pragmatic approach to life in the service of God. We allow a lot of latitude for people who think differently than we do personally to also be part of us as long as they are going in the same direction that we are -- that is all honor Jesus as Lord, and living as servants of his here and not yet Kingdom.

Thank you for your response. I have decided to shy away from Methodism because I don't believe in entire sanctification (Christian Perfection).

 

[GraceSeeker]

Thank you for your response. I have decided to shy away from Methodism because I don't believe in entire sanctification (Christian Perfection).

Yes, this can be a stumbling block to some. Interesting that you never asked about that however in your questions above. What do you think we mean by the concept?

 

[GracetotheHumble]

What do you think we mean by the concept?

I have found this link to provide a pretty good summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_perfection

 

[GracetotheHumble]

I don't believe in the ordination of women which is another reason I have decided against Methodism.

Also the UMC's liberal stance on homosexuality makes me shy away from that denomination.

 

[GracetotheHumble]

I'm starting to really like the LCMS, there is not much there that I disagree with.

The only problem is that there are not very many people my age in the congregation and since I am single and looking for a wife this is a stumbling block.

But as far as the theology of the LCMS goes I think that I am in agreement, alas it seems though that I am always looking for something more....a deeper relationship with Christ so to speak....and more of a tight knit fellowship with other believers my age.

 

[GracetotheHumble]

I do respect the Methodical life that John Wesley lived though. I read a biography about his life and it was inspiring.

 

[GraceSeeker]

If you feel more at home with the LCMS, by all means God-speed and God bless. But don't get your theology from Wiki. I'm not saying that I never use it; I do. But, I also recognize that it has limitations. For instance: "Confessional Lutherans reject the teaching of Christian Perfectionism, the Augsburg Confession of 1530 condemns 'those who contend that some may attain to such perfection in this life that they cannot sin.' "

But the question must be asked is this what Methodists really understand to be entire sanctification? Or is such a statement rejecting something that nobody actually holds to?

Notice, even Wiki doesn't speak of the Methodist understanding of sanctification as if it means that a person CANNOT sin: "Perfection is the process of sanctification which is both an instantaneous and a progressive work of grace. It may also be called entire sanctification, in which the heart of the believer is cleansed from inbred sin by the infilling of the Holy Spirit."

 

[GracetotheHumble]

If you feel more at home with the LCMS, by all means God-speed and God bless.

Like I said, I'm pretty happy with their theology and the more I study the more convinced I become that the LCMS is the most correct church I've found. Fellowship is a big issue for me though and most the members of my church are elderly. I'm in my late 30's and I find myself wishing that I had friends there my age. I also find myself wishing for something deeper in my walk with Christ. Perhaps I would like to get involved with prison ministry but I don't really see that opportunity.

But don't get your theology from Wiki. I'm not saying that I never use it; I do. But, I also recognize that it has limitations. For instance: "Confessional Lutherans reject the teaching of Christian Perfectionism, the Augsburg Confession of 1530 condemns 'those who contend that some may attain to such perfection in this life that they cannot sin.' "

But the question must be asked is this what Methodists really understand to be entire sanctification? Or is such a statement rejecting something that nobody actually holds to?

Notice, even Wiki doesn't speak of the Methodist understanding of sanctification as if it means that a person CANNOT sin: "Perfection is the process of sanctification which is both an instantaneous and a progressive work of grace. It may also be called entire sanctification, in which the heart of the believer is cleansed from inbred sin by the infilling of the Holy Spirit."

Yes, I understand that the teaching of entire sanctification doesn't rule out the possibility of continuing to sin.

I think the wiki article gives a brief synopsis but I agree it should not be the only source of study. Do you have any links to articles of entire sanctification?

 

[John Johnston]

I could write a long time on "entire sanctification". But sanctification is a life long process. We are not "entirely sanctified" until we stand before our Lord. I don't like "entire & perfection" being used with sanctification. We are not perfect in this world. We can still sin even if we are "sanctified". My belief is that "sanctification" is a life long process and we are not "entirely" sanctified in this life.

One pastor put it like this. (As well as I can express what he said).
We are like a 100 room house. Once we ask the Lord to sanctify us He begins in the first room and cleans that room. Once He is done with that room He goes to the next room and cleans that one. He continues on room by room "cleaning or sanctifying" us until we die. At that point all the other rooms are cleaned at once and we are entirely clean or entirely sanctified. We are not perfect until we make it to heaven. That is the best I can remember the story.
I know that I have heard people railing on Nazarenes because we think we are perfect when we are sanctified. I think some Nazarenes think they are perfect and can't sin anymore. I don't believe that.

To me my belief is sanctification is a life long work in us by the Lord. We are becoming more and more like Him and the work is done when we stand before Him.

That is my belief.
John

 

[GraceSeeker]

So, John, you believe that it is impossible for God to sanctify us in this life?