Considering converting.

[23rd]

I've been a Pagan for about 11 years now, before that I was agnostic. Attended a fundamentalist Christian school. They weren't very nice (big understatment) people and I didn't feel very welcome there. So,

Lately, it's not been feeling as .. right or as fulfilling as it has in the past. I used to feel spirtually connected, now I don't. My anxiety is getting worse and I'm finding myself almost "scared" of my Gods.

My fiance is Catholic and like a light in my life. He's never spoken to me about converting, but he makes me want to.. His faith is really inspiring to me.

Thing is, I have tried to convert to Christianity in the past - during my lapse of faiths with Paganism, but I've always gone back to it..

Is it even possible to fully convert from Paganism? :s I'm sure I've done a lot of things that are forbidden - a lot, actually. I've had a lot of bad thoughts about the church over the years, been really angry at Christian God for the hurt of the people in school, etc. I'm kinda scared that he won't want anything to do with me now.

How would one go about converting? :s

Thanks, sorry if this was long and/or made no sense.

 

[teaspill]

I don't have any advice to offer regarding how to convert as I've only recently converted myself, but I came from a pagan background, so I just want to say this:

Converting from devout paganism to Christianity is an on-going battle and it's very, very challenging. I don't think it's possible to fully convert away from everything that is pagan. There is a such a thing, despite it being heavily debated and being highly disapproved of among many people, as Christo-paganism. This will be very challenging for you; in the end, your heart will lead you in the right direction. I wish you the best of luck attempting to convert to Christianity - paganism to the antithesis of paganism is a huge step to take.

Also, God will forgive you for these "forbidden" things that you've done. I'm sure you've seen the quote from the Bible that all have sinned; that's not just pagans, that's everybody. God loves you, and he'll never throw a hissy fit and want nothing to do with you. It might be hard to let yourself receive his attention while you struggle with relinquishing paganism, but once you do, his love will be there. He's waiting and patient.

I would love to hear about your journey from paganism to Christianity, if that is indeed the decision that you end up making. If you'd like to talk to or befriend somebody who was very recently a pagan and who still has a heavy pagan influence in her life, you're always welcome to hit me up! A person needs plenty of support during these sorts of decision, in my opinion.

[in brackets because it's off-topic; would you mind revealing which pantheon you follow? I'm curious.]

 

[JasperJackson]

23rd,

Firstly, praise God that you are possibly considering becoming a Christian!
Secondly, I'm sorry to hear that you had bad experiences at your Christian school. But I hope that you are discerning enough to realize that Christianity should primarily be judged on the basis of Jesus and not its followers. It is unfortunate.

I have a couple of notes first before getting to converting...
1. You said you're "scared" of your pagan Gods. The Bible is clear that there is only one true God. There are other beings however that have real, supernatural powers, and they are demons. This is what the pagan Gods are. Now you may find that offensive, but this is what the Bible says. This may help explain why you are scared of them.
2. You do not need to be scared of these demons, or satan, because of the work Jesus did for you on the cross. Part of this work included conquering satan and his demons so you do not need to be beholden to them anymore.
3. You mentioned that you're also scared that God will not want anything to do with you. The truth is that God is love. God cannot love you anymore than he already does and he promises to not love you any less either. But this love is not something you have earned, it is by pure grace that God loves you, or I, or anyone. And it needs to be grace because we can't earn our way to God because of our sin. Thankfully, God has demonstrated his love for us through Jesus' death and resurrection, and that anyone who believes in him and that act on the cross can have ALL their sins forgiven and thus be reconciled to God.

As for conversion, you need to fill out form I-45612. Joking, of course...
To become a Christian, you must simply have faith. Just believe and accept the work that Jesus has done for you. Once you've done that, commence that relationship with God. Pray. Start with thanking him for your salvation through Jesus. Then confess your sins. Don't just be general, but name your sins, be specific. This may be painful but is important for you to be able to accept forgiveness from God and move on. Ask God help you overcome temptations in your life, and to overcome the pagan Gods/demons.

Finally, just a warning... don't expect your conversion to be a huge, emotional experience. Yes, it may be that, but the Bible doesn't promise that.
And finally finally, becoming a Christian does completely "wipe the slate clean" of all your sins. Jesus takes ALL your sins upon himself. However, you will still sin from time to time. You just need to continue in confessing sins and asking God to help you overcome them. This is the Christian life.

I'll be praying for you,
JJ

 

[Dragons87]

I haven't much to add, except that you are now safe in Jesus' hands, and as long as you want to, he will lead you to green pastures of rest and strength!

I am praying for you.

 

[drich0150]

If your looking to convert to Catholicism, and you husband to be is Catholic then I think it would be best through him to do so. If your relationship can't stand up to you converting over to his system of beliefs then you have bigger problems than what your faith used to be.

 

[seashale76]

Is it even possible to fully convert from Paganism?

Absolutely! Many saints of the Church have done just that.

How would one go about converting?

Conversion is more than a mental assent to believe something. You must be baptized and you must live out your faith/your life in Christ in the Church. If you wish to convert, I would definitely begin by contacting your fiance's priest and telling him your concerns.

 

[Quoth]

Is it even possible to fully convert from Paganism?

Absolutely! Many saints of the Church have done just that.

How would one go about converting?

Conversion is more than a mental assent to believe something. You must be baptized and you must live out your faith/your life in Christ in the Church. If you wish to convert, I would definitely begin by contacting your fiance's priest and telling him your concerns.

I just wanted to note that not all Christians believe the same things concerning requirements for salvation, and some do not consider baptism a necessary thing. However, I do agree with seashale76 in that it is adviseable for you to speak with your fiance's priest or another Christian minister you trust.

 

[Coralie]

23rd,

I was in a very similar position to you once. Take comfort, there's a way out.

Regarding your anxieties:

Once you turn to Christ, you will have nothing to fear. The fear you're feeling now is probably with good reason. The pagan forces you're dealing with are, on one level or another, self-serving; they want something from you, even if it's at your expense.

The Living God is not like that. He created you and He knows what's best for you. He is the only one who can heal and protect you. You need to run to Him. Go and talk to your fiance's priest; he will know which way you need to turn from here.

As seashale says, there are countless people who converted from paganism to Christianity, and many of these people became recognised saints for their incredible contribution to the Church, which often included martyrdom. St. Justin Martyr comes to mind. The fact that ex-pagans would die for their new faith shows that they really took their conversion to heart! It was truly a complete conversion!

I also want to point out that there is absolutely no sin that God will not forgive you for. On the contrary, the worse your sins, the more He longs for you and the more He will rejoice at your return. The Church is strictly for sinners only! Jesus said in Mark 2:17: "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Read this parable, where Jesus explains how God feels when a lost soul returns to Him (and you are returning to Him; He made you, so you belong with Him):

Luke 15:11-22
11Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. 12The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.

13"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
17"When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' 20So he got up and went to his father.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.[a]'
22"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate."

Please go and see your fiance's priest. He has probably helped many, many people who are in your position, or worse.

And please keep us updated on your progress. You can PM me if you want to talk more about paganism vs Xianity--or anything at all, for that matter.

 

[JasperJackson]

But at the same time, onthegallow, you should probably make yourself aware of the rules for each discussion board - just so you don't waste your time!

 

[23rd]

Thank you all for your responses, particularly the former Pagans - it was good to hear how some people have made the change.

I appreciate your post onthegallow. I have experienced Christians, Muslims, Pagans, etc in the past who were rude and judgemental. But I figure there's just bad and good in every faith.

As for Pagan gods being demons, can I ask where it specfically says that? I was under the impression that it varied from translation to translation - with one calling them "devils" and the other calling them "idols".

My main interest in converting is that I have long been a admirer of Jesus and his teachings. The bible throws up some small issues for me. In particular, the story of Satan..

I thought in the book of Job God sent Satan to test Job's faith? That ha-satan, in the bible, was a title given to a number of angels that God used? I know they're supposed to have had some falling out at one point, but last time I read the bible (I study theology), I noticed that it wasn't in there, yet it's in the Koran - or so I've been told. I've not yet read the Koran - it's on the list of things to read, as well as some more in-depth bible study. But where is the account of satan being a devil and etc to be found (I know it was argued that it was in Isaiah, but that was later found to be a mistranslation and about a Babylonian King or so I studied)? I'd really like some insight, as I'm having a hard time with ths.

Thanks~

 

[Coralie]

Hon I'm glad you got something out of the posts.

Re: pagan gods being demons: I (personally) don't know if they're demons or not, since I'm not God; whatever they are, though, they're not on God's side. That means you should flee from them. Only God has your best interests at heart. That's the short answer. There is a much longer, more interesting answer, of course.

Re: the satan questions, I suggest you talk to the priest, honestly. It's going to be extremely difficult to have complex theological discussions on a message board (let's face it, it always ends up being a peeing contest, y'know?).

What I have time for right now is this:

ha-satan, as you know, = the Accuser in English. I will use that word for clarity's sake.

The Accuser was part of St Job's story. The Lord allowed the Accuser to test Job, so that the glory of a truly righteous, God-surrendered man would be revealed to the world for all time.

You will not find a sentence that says "the Accuser is the same person as the Devil" anywhere in the Bible. The phrase "the Devil" is an Anglo construction, analogous to Greek "slanderer" (="accuser"). Note also that Jesus used "Beelzebub" ("Lord[/Baal] of Flies") as a synonym for the accuser of the Old Testament. Other synonyms are also used.

Here's a wikipedia cut n paste re: origins of the Accuser/Satan:

The popularly held beliefs that Satan was once a prideful angel who eventually rebels against God are mostly based on inference (e.g., Ezekiel 28). In mainstream Christianity he is called "the ruler of the demons" (Matt. 12:24), "the ruler of the world" and "the god of this world". (2 Cor. 4:4). The Book of Revelation describes how Satan will be cast out of Heaven, down to the earth, having "great anger" and waging war against "those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus". Ultimately, Satan is thrown into the "lake of fire" (Revelation 20:10), not as ruler, but as one among many, being tormented day and night for all eternity.

If these don't help, please list your questions as clearly as possible and we can try again.

PLEASE NOTE: being a Christian is a community activity, not a purely individual one. You need to talk to experienced Christians IRL in order to work all of these questions out. Don't try to do this on your own, you will be vulnerable during this time.

 

[Coralie]

It also just occurred to me that I myself may not even understand your questions re: Satan.

I.e., I may not understand how you understand the idea/concept of Satan, or evil for that matter.

So I apologise if my post was useless.

(This is why you need to talk to someone face-to-face!)

 

[23rd]

Thank you~ :3 I appreciate the fact that it's difficult to convey certain things over the internet and I understand the issue of people getting defensive for whatever reason when the subject of theology comes up. But I do appreciate your answering me. I will, of course, have a discussion with a priest as well to see if I can clear things up.

But as you ask - right nowfor me, as a Pagan theology student and my personal understanding of the scriptures (but as I said, I am not a Christian, so I could be seeing this wrong), Satan (ha-satan) was a title given to an angel - "the adversary" - that God used to challenge people or in the case of David and the census used for evil.

I am having a really hard time seeing Satan as an evil entity with demons burning in the pits of hell when - after putting the bible into the historical, political, social context of the times that it was written - I can't find where it says "Satan and God fell out and now he's burning in a pit of fire and brimstone and when you die, unless you believe in Christian God aka YHWH, you're going to burn with him". In fact, when I last read/studied the bible, the mentions of hell were few and far between.. and then that's debatable on the translation. Unless I'm missing something?

Perhaps I need to read further into Jewish mythology - is it common that most Christian also read the Jewish books?

 

[Coralie]

Thank you~ :3

You're so welcome hon.

right nowfor me, as a Pagan theology student and my personal understanding of the scriptures (but as I said, I am not a Christian, so I could be seeing this wrong), Satan (ha-satan) was a title given to an angel - "the adversary" - that God used to challenge people or in the case of David and the census used for evil.

Ooooh OK, now I see where you're coming from. Yeah, talking to the priest will help. The Bible isn't all there is, you see; the interpretation is also important. There is a traditional interpretation that was passed down from Jesus to his Apostles to the present day--for the sake of your intellectual integrity you'll want to learn that. Otherwise you risk inventing your own version of Xianity.

I am having a really hard time seeing Satan as an evil entity with demons burning in the pits of hell when - after putting the bible into the historical, political, social context of the times that it was written - I can't find where it says "Satan and God fell out and now he's burning in a pit of fire and brimstone and when you die, unless you believe in Christian God aka YHWH, you're going to burn with him". In fact, when I last read/studied the bible, the mentions of hell were few and far between.. and then that's debatable on the translation. Unless I'm missing something?.

I'm on right page with you now. Let's break this down a little.

OK: Hell first.

Jesus was certainly not silent on the subject of Hell. Again, be aware that there's a tradition of interpretation supporting the Bible. The pit of fire, Gehenna, Sheol, and Hades were all words Jesus used to describe the fate of those who turned from God.

True, they're probably metaphorical--after all, how would we ever understand the nature of complete separation from God? to be cut off from the very source of life and love?--but He uses those words for a reason; He wants listeners to understand the consequences of turning away from God--not wanting to "scare them into the Kingdom", but because it's only fair that He elucidate the consequences of rejection somewhere along the line.

Now: demons/Satan in Hell.

I'm Eastern Orthodox. Here's a loose EO cosmology of Hell (although this isn't dogma--we tend not to dogmatize much beyond the Nicene Creed):

- God is all-powerful, all-good, all-love.

- When we die, we enter the presence of God.

- If we've spent our lives rejecting God (or good, if we've never heard of God), living lives of pride and selfishness, the pure presence of God will be unbearable. It will feel like a pit of fire, like Gehenna, like a grave--suffocating and unbearable. "All we wanted our whole lives was our own way; now we have to spend eternity with the God who knows better than us, while angels and saints worship him!1!!" Etc.

- If we spend our lives loving God and trying to obey him, repenting regularly, moving towards him, learning to love Him and others, learning to be humble: then His pure presence will be heavenly. We want to be there. It will be the ultimate, blissful freedom. It's a fulfillment of everything; the culmination of all that is good; finally meeting the One who we've spent our lives reaching out for.

NOTE: We EO (and Catholics) don't believe that all non-Xians go to Hell. Ask your priest about "invincible ignorance" and he will explain.

We believe that only God is the Judge, and all we frail human beings can do is trust in Him. Being an Xian is about surrendering to God, not about who is in the Heaven club and who isn't. It's a grievous sin to pronounce a fellow human being "damned"--WE SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.

- Satan and his rebel angels fall into the "rejecting God" group, of course. Hence, His pure presence is unbearable. They flee from Him. When Jesus comes again and all is finished, they will be forced into His presence, and it will be unbearable for them.

(This is hugely simplified.)

Perhaps I need to read further into Jewish mythology - is it common that most Christian also read the Jewish books?

Well, it's not common, except among scholars. Do be careful; after all, Jesus did set out to correct a lot of Jewish misconceptions about the nature/character of God, which means He also, unavoidably, corrected their cosmology.

If you want to get a good picture of Christian thought, I've got a suggestion; the ante-Nicene Church fathers (i.e., the guys who were discipled by the Apostles, and were the only source of Xian teaching before the Bible was assembled). You can find a fantastic library of their works here: Early Church Fathers | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Out of interest, although he was post-Nicene, St John Chrysostom wrote extensively on Satan and the nature of evil, using Scriptural references throughout. I've actually read a collection of those works, it's very interesting and illuminating. You may want to check that out.

Let me know if anything I've written doesn't make sense, and I'll try improve on it for you. Feel free, also, to print this out and take it to the priest, and ask him to correct it/expand upon it. Might be a good starting point.

 

[23rd]

Thank you - that's really, really helpful. I think that I was trying to imagine something more literal, but metaphorically, it makes much more sense. Where do Christians believe Satan is today, then? If hell is not a real literal place, does that mean Satan lives on earth, as Jesus saw in Luke 10:18?

 

[Coralie]

I'm so glad I kind of answered your question. I know I keep saying this, but please also run all this past your priest--I am not a theology grad by any means. I just tend to remember what I've read.

In answer to your q:

I would consider your interpretation of Luke 10:18 to be pretty much spot-on (I'm referring to the first bit of course).

Satan is a spiritual being, and he's head of a hierarchy of fallen angels. He and his cohorts operate on the whole physical earth--ground, sky, air, among men and women--what we call "Earth".

Ephesians 6:12: For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

1 Peter 5:8: Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

Satan will be "in Hell" (as it were) once the Final Judgement is complete. Right now, if he does have a "seat" (like, a palace in some kind of underworld, or suchlike), we don't know about it. What we do know is that he is present among us, deceiving and accusing men and hoping to lead them away from God.

 

[Trustguard]

I am glad you are considering Christ’s claims on your life.
First, may I suggest you ask God to open your eyes and ears, because He is the One that enables you to see and hear. Satan has been blinding your eyes and holding you captive to do his will. Only God can eliminate the barriers that keep you from the narrow path that leads to life. Once you belong to Him, no one can snatch you back, because God is greater than Satan. He longs for you to come in repentance and be reconciled with Him, and give you peace. He wants you to know the pleasures that are in His right hand forever. He wants you to see Him in His glory, experience the blessing of his saving grace and tender mercies and His faithfulness.

Okay, now I hope you have a copy of an excellent Bible translation, such as the New King James, New American Standard or English Standard Versions.
Please read Exodus 20:3-5 and Isaiah 45:18-25. You may already be familiar with where things are, but just in case, I’m putting some hints in here about some of these books I mention. The above references are both found in the Old Testament. Exodus is the second book of the Bible. Isaiah is further in and comes after Song of Solomon and before Jeremiah.
Revelations 9:20-21 is a portion of Biblical prophecy of future judgment that sheds light on who is behind man-made gods. It says:
"The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts."

Satan (Lucifer) and the other rebel angels were kicked out of heaven. See Luke 10:18 (the third Gospel book in the New Testament), and Revelations 12:7-12 (the last book of the Bible). Satan took the form of a serpent in the Garden of Eden but also in the New Testament it says he disguises himself as an angel of light. He was allowed access to heaven to speak to God illustrated in the book of Job. Satan is called the prince of the power of the air and the god of this world in Scripture. He is like a roaring lion, the Bible says, seeking whom he may devour. He comes to steal and to kill and to destroy. But Christ came that you might have life, and might have it abundantly.

If you would be converted, you must confess your sins (See Romans 3:23, I John 1:9 in the New Testament.), turning away from practicing them, hating sin, receive Christ Jesus, and give your life completely to the Lord, who shed His blood on the cross for sins and took the punishment for them on Himself. Romans 10:9-11 says:
“that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

God makes all things new. No longer would you be in the domain of darkness if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Please take a look at II Corinthians 5:17 and I Thessalonians 5:5-11.
Colossians 1:13-14 says: “For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.”

The place of eternal punishment, for those who reject the Lord and are objects of His wrath, is a fearful real place. The story Jesus told of the rich man and Lazarus spoke of the separation between the place of torment called Hades and Paradise where Lazarus was in Abraham‘s bosom. See Luke 16:19-31.

Hell is a place of outer darkness. It is dark because God is not there. In heaven, there will be no need for a sun because God is the light there.
On the final judgment day, the people who have rejected Christ’s sacrifice for their sins, rejecting their Creator, will be sent to an eternal punishment of fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (See the first Gospel in the New Testament, Matthew 25:31-46.) There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (the later presumedly because rebellion against God is still in their hearts) in this endless second death. The worm never dies there. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Demons have no love for you and are much more powerful than you. While you have not yielded your life to Christ, there is real danger to you from these evil beings and you have legitimate grounds for concern. But God is greater and more powerful than the gods that are scaring you.

Only God can deliver you through His Son, Jesus Christ, the only High Priest that you need to go through to come to the Father God. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by Me." John 14:6 Once you belong to Him and God willing, you will, you are able to boldly approach the throne of grace because Christ always lives to make intercession for you and He is why you are able to do this. The Holy Spirit also will intercede for you will groanings to deep to be uttered.

Once you become a Christian, seek to find a Bible believing fellowship where there are those who will encourage you to love and good deeds and encourage you in your walk of faith. Read your Bible every day. Listen to excellent Bible teachers online to help on your journey- free to listen to sermons on gty - an org website and desiring God- also an org website. Pray without ceasing to the Lord, Who is Sovereign and completely in charge. He is good. I have prayed for you.

 

[23rd]

Satan (Lucifer) and the other rebel angels were kicked out of heaven. See Luke 10:18.

Luke 10:18 doesn't say that anyone was "kicked out" of heaven. All it says is that Satan came to earth. Jesus saw Satan fall to earth. That's what it says. Do you not think that maybe it might be possible that God himself sent Satan - the accuser, his angel - to earth to make sure that Jesus died on the cross?

As he says in Isaiah 45:7: I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. It makes me think he'd be quite capable of such.

By the way, Lucifer was a minor Roman deity, nothing to do with Satan. Unless, of course, you believe John Milton's works to be scripture.

The place of eternal punishment, for those who reject the Lord and are objects of His wrath, is a fearful real place. The story Jesus told of the rich man and Lazarus spoke of the separation between the place of torment called Hades and Paradise where Lazarus was in Abraham‘s bosom. See Luke 16:19-31.

Hades is a borrow from Greek mythology. Hades was the Greek God of the underworld, who also resides in a place called Hades. To the ancient Greeks, he was the one who decided whether the soul would end up in a good place or a bad place. None of the Gods really liked him, per say, but he wasn't evil. This does, however, beg the question why Lazarus is reciting Greek mythology?

In a similar way, this reminds me of the God Zeus fighting with a "bad angel" (or deity, I forget) named Tartarus and casting him down into a sort of.. hell. If I recall correctly, it was a few levels below Hades - a place reserved for the wickedest people. This is written in the mythology. However, no one will tell me where Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven is written in the bible...

Only God can deliver you through His Son, Jesus Christ, the only High Priest that you need to go through to come to the Father God. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by Me." John 14:6 Once you belong to Him and God willing, you will, you are able to boldly approach the throne of grace because Christ always lives to make intercession for you and He is why you are able to do this. The Holy Spirit also will intercede for you will groanings to deep to be uttered.

"Father" God is debatable. There is scripture in the Bible that hints God is genderless, or both. In fact, if I remember correctly from what I've read of Hebrew, isn't the Holy Spirit supposed to be the female?

Once you become a Christian, seek to find a Bible believing fellowship where there are those who will encourage you to love and good deeds and encourage you in your walk of faith. Read your Bible every day. Listen to excellent Bible teachers online to help on your journey- free to listen to sermons on gty - an org website and desiring God- also an org website. Pray without ceasing to the Lord, Who is Sovereign and completely in charge. He is good. I have prayed for you.

This last paragraph I find a bit offensive. I have to become a Christian and go to church to be capable of loving people and doing good deeds? I have plenty of love now as a Pagan and I help people now - that's not the reason I'm considering converting.

 

[Coralie]

Hey 23rd. I was going to answer Trustguard's post, and then answer your answer to his post, but then realised I was just going to complicate things!

I just wanted to let you know I'm still hanging around here. Did you have any more things pop into your head last night or today that you'd like to discuss? If so, let me know, I'll be online for the next few hours.

If not, hope you have a good day anyway, and that you get to chat to a priest or another IRL Xian sometime soon. I used to live in the UK, wish I still did because we could meet up and have a chat ourselves!

 

[JasperJackson]

Hi 23rd,

Another verse that is helpful on the fall of satan is Isaiah 14:12-15, which talks of Lucifer (aka Morning Star) being cast down to earth, then the grave (aka hell).

In terms of the eternity of hell and it being a real place, see Matthew 25:41.

Yes, there are many different terms for hell, including Hades. While Christians believe the Bible is "God-breathed" we also acknowledge that it was "penned" by different people. Luke, who mentions Hades, was written by a doctor with a Greek background, for Greek people. So I think he used the term hades to try and relate to their understanding, but also to correct their understanding. Yes he was quoting Jesus, but he was also translating Jesus' words from Aramaic to Greek.

Finally, yes you CAN love as a pagan. I'm not Trustguard but I don't think she was implying that you couldn't. The thing is that when we become a Christian God changes our hearts and our desires. We no longer desire sin. We desire to love more and more. But you mention this is not the reason you are considering converting. Why are you considering converting? To be frank, if it's not to have your sins forgiven by Jesus so that you can be reconciled with God then it is for the wrong reasons.

Still praying for you.

JJ