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Conservative=Regressive

stamperben

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You are not Conservative. Not by a long shot. You are Regressive. Not only are you regressive, you are social Darwinists as well.

The Rebirth of Social Darwinism
What kind of society, exactly, do modern Republicans want? I’ve been listening to Republican candidates in an effort to discern an overall philosophy, a broadly-shared vision, an ideal picture of America.

They say they want a smaller government but that can’t be it. Most seek a larger national defense and more muscular homeland security. Almost all want to widen the government’s powers of search and surveillance inside the United States – eradicating possible terrorists, expunging undocumented immigrants, “securing” the nation’s borders. They want stiffer criminal sentences, including broader application of the death penalty. Many also want government to intrude on the most intimate aspects of private life.

They call themselves conservatives but that’s not it, either. They don’t want to conserve what we now have. They’d rather take the country backwards – before the 1960s and 1970s, and the Environmental Protection Act, Medicare, and Medicaid; before the New Deal, and its provision for Social Security, unemployment insurance, the forty-hour workweek, laws against child labor, and official recognition of trade unions; even before the Progressive Era, and the first national income tax, antitrust laws, and Federal Reserve.

They’re not conservatives. They’re regressives. And the America they seek is the one we had in the Gilded Age of the late nineteenth century.

It was an era when the nation was mesmerized by the doctrine of free enterprise, but few Americans actually enjoyed much freedom. Robber barons like the financier Jay Gould, the railroad magnate Cornelius Vanderbilt, and the oil tycoon John D. Rockefeller, controlled much of American industry; the gap between rich and poor had turned into a chasm; urban slums festered; children worked long hours in factories; women couldn’t vote and black Americans were subject to Jim Crow; and the lackeys of rich literally deposited sacks of money on desks of pliant legislators.

Most tellingly, it was a time when the ideas of William Graham Sumner, a professor of political and social science at Yale, dominated American social thought. Sumner brought Charles Darwin to America and twisted him into a theory to fit the times.

Few Americans living today have read any of Sumner’s writings but they had an electrifying effect on America during the last three decades of the 19th century.

To Sumner and his followers, life was a competitive struggle in which only the fittest could survive – and through this struggle societies became stronger over time. A correlate of this principle was that government should do little or nothing to help those in need because that would interfere with natural selection.
Survival of the fittest. That's what is read over and over again in so many posts here.
Listen to today’s Republican debates and you hear a continuous regurgitation of Sumner. “Civilization has a simple choice,” Sumner wrote in the 1880s. It’s either “liberty, inequality, survival of the fittest,” or “not-liberty, equality, survival of the unfittest. The former carries society forward and favors all its best members; the latter carries society downwards and favors all its worst members.”

Sound familiar?

Newt Gingrich not only echoes Sumner’s thoughts but mimics Sumner’s reputed arrogance. Gingrich says we must reward “entrepreneurs” (by which he means anyone who has made a pile of money) and warns us not to “coddle” people in need. He calls laws against child labor “truly stupid,” and says poor kids should serve as janitors in their schools. He opposes extending unemployment insurance because, he says, ”I’m opposed to giving people money for doing nothing.”

Sumner, likewise, warned against handouts to people he termed “negligent, shiftless, inefficient, silly, and imprudent.”

Mitt Romney doesn’t want the government to do much of anything about unemployment. And he’s dead set against raising taxes on millionaires, relying on the standard Republican rationale millionaires create jobs.

Here’s Sumner, more than a century ago: “Millionaires are the product of natural selection, acting on the whole body of men to pick out those who can meet the requirement of certain work to be done… It is because they are thus selected that wealth aggregates under their hands – both their own and that intrusted to them … They may fairly be regarded as the naturally selected agents of society.” Although they live in luxury, “the bargain is a good one for society.”
You practice Darwinism and are regressive in your views. You are not out to conserve anything but the status quo of the rich getting richer and the others getting poorer because you feel they don't have the ability to succeed. You have no compassion for those who are not rich and well taken care of.
Other Republican hopefuls also fit Sumner’s mold. Ron Paul, who favors repeal of Obama’s healthcare plan, was asked at a Republican debate in September what medical response he’d recommend if a young man who had decided not to buy health insurance were to go into a coma. Paul’s response: “That’s what freedom is all about: taking your own risks.” The Republican crowd cheered.


In other words, if the young man died for lack of health insurance, he was responsible. Survival of the fittest.


Social Darwinism offered a moral justification for the wild inequities and social cruelties of the late nineteenth century. It allowed John D. Rockefeller, for example, to claim the fortune he accumulated through his giant Standard Oil Trust was “merely a survival of the fittest.” It was, he insisted “the working out of a law of nature and of God.”


Social Darwinism also undermined all efforts at the time to build a nation of broadly-based prosperity and rescue our democracy from the tight grip of a very few at the top. It was used by the privileged and powerful to convince everyone else that government shouldn’t do much of anything.
But America did reject this in the past and will reject it again. I say good riddance to your regressive social Darwinism.
 

chaz345

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Virtually nothing mentioned in the above bears any resembalance to the beliefs of anyone I know that self identifies as Conservative. It's the mirror image of someone saying that Liberals are Communists who want what happened to the USSR to happen to the US.
 
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abysmul

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Virtually nothing mentioned in the above bears any resembalance to the beliefs of anyone I know that self identifies as Conservative. It's the mirror image of someone saying that Liberals are Communists who want what happened to the USSR to happen to the US.

It's quite common, at least in this day and age, to confuse Conservative with Republican and Socialist with Democrat.
 
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Harpuia

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Virtually nothing mentioned in the above bears any resembalance to the beliefs of anyone I know that self identifies as Conservative. It's the mirror image of someone saying that Liberals are Communists who want what happened to the USSR to happen to the US.

Funny. I can name at least two dozen in my own suburbs I used to live in as a child who would be in line with about 90% of what Reich wrote.

It's quite common, at least in this day and age, to confuse Conservative with Republican and Socialist with Democrat.

I don't think Conservative is as extreme on the right as Socialist is on the left though... Reactionary or Plutocracy would be a better word to describe it.
 
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PHenry42

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And what's funny is, despite their advocacy of Social Darwinism, most of them reject actual Darwinism as atheistic and evil :p

Ever notice that Reich doesn't actually say anything to refute Sumner's arguments?

Kinda like Conservatives who throw around "Communism!!!1!11" as a buzzword don't actually say anything to refute Communist arguments, don't you think? ;)
 
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Dog Is Fake

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And what's funny is, despite their advocacy of Social Darwinism, most of them reject actual Darwinism as atheistic and evil :p



Kinda like Conservatives who throw around "Communism!!!1!11" as a buzzword don't actually say anything to refute Communist arguments, don't you think? ;)
Because they couldn't define communism if their lives depended on it.
 
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NightHawkeye

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Because they couldn't define communism if their lives depended on it.
Communism is a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of a classless, moneyless, revolutionary and stateless socialist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production. This movement, in its Marxist-Leninist interpretations, significantly influenced the history of the 20th century, which saw intense rivalry between the "socialist world" (socialist states ruled by Communist parties) and the "western world" (countries with market economies and Liberal democratic government), culminating in the Cold War between the Eastern bloc and the "Free World".

In Marxist theory, communism is a specific stage of historical development that inevitably emerges from the development of the productive forces that leads to a superabundance of material wealth, allowing for distribution based on need and social relations based on freely associated individuals.[1][2] The exact definition of communism varies, and it is often mistakenly, in general political discourse, used interchangeably with socialism; however, Marxist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the road to communism. Leninists revised this theory by introducing the notion of a vanguard party to lead the proletarian revolution and to hold all political power after the revolution, "in the name of the workers" and with worker participation, in a transitional stage between capitalism and socialism.

Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Whaddaya think, Dog?

Perhaps I should also add: Godless totalitarian state which cyclically exterminates large numbers of citizens.

.
 
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morningstar2651

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Communism is a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of a classless, moneyless, revolutionary and stateless socialist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production. This movement, in its Marxist-Leninist interpretations, significantly influenced the history of the 20th century, which saw intense rivalry between the "socialist world" (socialist states ruled by Communist parties) and the "western world" (countries with market economies and Liberal democratic government), culminating in the Cold War between the Eastern bloc and the "Free World".

In Marxist theory, communism is a specific stage of historical development that inevitably emerges from the development of the productive forces that leads to a superabundance of material wealth, allowing for distribution based on need and social relations based on freely associated individuals.[1][2] The exact definition of communism varies, and it is often mistakenly, in general political discourse, used interchangeably with socialism; however, Marxist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the road to communism. Leninists revised this theory by introducing the notion of a vanguard party to lead the proletarian revolution and to hold all political power after the revolution, "in the name of the workers" and with worker participation, in a transitional stage between capitalism and socialism.

Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Whaddaya think, Dog?

Perhaps I should also add: Godless totalitarian state which cyclically exterminates large numbers of citizens.

.

Cool - you can copy and paste from Wikipedia.

Can you actually explain it in your own words, or is knowledge regurgitation the extent of your comprehension of Communism?
 
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stamperben

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Cool - you can copy and paste from Wikipedia.

Can you actually explain it in your own words, or is knowledge regurgitation the extent of your comprehension of Communism?
He also knows how to view YouTube videos and post them here.
 
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Harpuia

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I had mentioned my belief of economic systems in a video I made a couple weeks ago. As far as I understand it, the difference between capitalism, socialism, and communism is merely how much money is given to the government to redistribute back to the government's constituents, which is how communism gets its equal share. The fault of it being that leaders tend to get corrupt and... well... take more than they should under a communistic society... >>

But that was just my opinion. I got slammed for it a while back because it's apparently not what communism is. That it's classless. Classless but still needs someone to lead. Unless you're doing a true communal style where everyone is in charge of the money and everyone divides it up equally with everyone supervising (and even that could result in some oligarchy if say, some people don't show up), there's still someone leading or someone that has to take charge of it.
 
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Redac

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I had mentioned my belief of economic systems in a video I made a couple weeks ago. As far as I understand it, the difference between capitalism, socialism, and communism is merely how much money is given to the government to redistribute back to the government's constituents, which is how communism gets its equal share. The fault of it being that leaders tend to get corrupt and... well... take more than they should under a communistic society... >>

But that was just my opinion. I got slammed for it a while back because it's apparently not what communism is. That it's classless. Classless but still needs someone to lead. Unless you're doing a true communal style where everyone is in charge of the money and everyone divides it up equally with everyone supervising (and even that could result in some oligarchy if say, some people don't show up), there's still someone leading or someone that has to take charge of it.

I'm pretty sure that in actual communism money does not exist.
 
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Harpuia

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I'm pretty sure that in actual communism money does not exist.

Or resources. Resources make a currency too.

Just because I can eat apples doesn't mean I can't pay you in apples.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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PHenry42 said:
Kinda like Conservatives who throw around "Communism!!!1!11" as a buzzword don't actually say anything to refute Communist arguments, don't you think? ;)

Tu quoque, anyone?

At least Communism is a topic most people are familiar with, since Communism dominated most of the twentieth century's history. If you're going to bring up an obscure academic like Sumner, and blame him for everthing wrong that happened in his time, I would expect his arguments to be better addressed than that. Especially since the intustrialization of the late nineteenth century which Reich identifies with Sumner, ugly though it sometimes was, made possible the cushy lives we enjoy in this country today.

PHenry42 said:
And what's funny is, despite their advocacy of Social Darwinism, most of them reject actual Darwinism as atheistic and evil :p

Curious as to what you mean by actual Darwinism. If you mean evolution, it's a misnomer. Darwin was not by a long shot the first to propose that humans evolved from the animal kingdom. Darwin's contribution to biology was the observation that the better suited an organism is to its environment, the more likely it is to live long enough to reproduce, thereby passing their traits to the next generation. This is indisputable; it is something we observe. Arguably the social implications of this are stronger than what it says about the origins of the various species of life. forms.

You can "reject" the laws of nature, if you like. Nature has a funny way of reasserting herself though. She doesn't care what the law says, or what public opinon holds, but sooner or later she always finds a way to be heard.
 
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