Conservative/Liberal Anglican Discussion/Split from "Real Reason..."

[Simon_Templar]

The problem being that such "liberals" DO think they are "in line" with the truth of Jesus Christ and his teaching.

Can we tone down the animosity in here, btw? Whatever perspective we come from, we do it because we believe it is the truth. We are sincerely trying to seek Christ in what we say and do. Can we honor that? If not, we are regressing to name-calling and being less than who Christ wants us to be.

here again we come up against the fateful issue of differentiating between a person and their beleifs, or their actions etc etc.

To be honest, there are some liberals that really really anger me. I'd be too much the politician and not enough the honest man I want to be if I said that in those instances I don't feel some sort of frustration at least, animosity at worst towards the person.

However, the issue is not that I dislike liberals as people. As in any situation, with any group, people are people. Let me tell you, there are plenty of conservatives that I can barely tolerate. I'm a charismatic and there are many charismatics whom I am embarrased to be associated with.

The issue is not how I feel about you as people. The issue is that I am convinced to the core that your beliefs are wrong, are offensive to God, and destructive of both society and indidividual people.
I'm sorry, but I don't and can't respect that.

I would worry about this kind of blunt statement being offensive, but so far in this thread alone I've essentially been called a bigot and told that I want to hurt people in the name of Christ. I'm not playing the persecuted saint here because as you may have noticed, I responded in kind. The point is, if we are going to lay our cards on the table, I'm ok with that. I'm not offended that Kiwi thinks I'm a bigot or the rest of his opinions.

What I do find offensive is that the same people who feel free to call me a bigot, and someone who hurts people in the name of Christ (I get the feeling we are imagined as some sort of grand inquisition), then have the hypocrisy to imagine themselves to be tolerant, and the gall to play the offended innocent when their own beliefs are judged.

 

[Aymn27]

wow where do i start???
i want to quote most of you but cant be bothered to copy and paste loads so heres a few thoughts instead....

no the priest dont ask if your lib or con but infact to take communuin at that church is statement in its self you are stating publically you are in communuin with that priest and church and views if not why go there?? and if you wanna say thats not so then why no just go to any bleeding church from any demonination? just a thought .... thats why i pick my church and vicar carefully for i dont wanna follow heretics as such....

also yes i agree do you wanna heal or hurt but i see the church like a badly disease ridden tree with grafts stuck on to it and there are some who say leave it allone just let it sort it self out let just let luck decide if it lives or dies...... but i on the other hand like many wanna give it a good prune and dicard all the newly added grafts and cut out all the disease..........and then after time it will grow and flurish

anyway i just think like this... i believe in god and jesus and the bible and the holy ghost
i believe in love and truth and kindness

but one thing i always cling to is half truths are lies so only the full truth must be preserved

where were you when I was looking for a wife

great post!

 

[Aymn27]

here again we come up against the fateful issue of differentiating between a person and their beleifs, or their actions etc etc.

To be honest, there are some liberals that really really anger me. I'd be too much the politician and not enough the honest man I want to be if I said that in those instances I don't feel some sort of frustration at least, animosity at worst towards the person.

However, the issue is not that I dislike liberals as people. As in any situation, with any group, people are people. Let me tell you, there are plenty of conservatives that I can barely tolerate. I'm a charismatic and there are many charismatics whom I am embarrased to be associated with.

The issue is not how I feel about you as people. The issue is that I am convinced to the core that your beliefs are wrong, are offensive to God, and destructive of both society and indidividual people.
I'm sorry, but I don't and can't respect that.

I would worry about this kind of blunt statement being offensive, but so far in this thread alone I've essentially been called a bigot and told that I want to hurt people in the name of Christ. I'm not playing the persecuted saint here because as you may have noticed, I responded in kind. The point is, if we are going to lay our cards on the table, I'm ok with that. I'm not offended that Kiwi thinks I'm a bigot or the rest of his opinions.

What I do find offensive is that the same people who feel free to call me a bigot, and someone who hurts people in the name of Christ (I get the feeling we are imagined as some sort of grand inquisition), then have the hypocrisy to imagine themselves to be tolerant, and the gall to play the offended innocent when their own beliefs are judged.

Simon Simon - this is quite possibly the bestest post I have ever read on CF....it nails my feelings/perspective down perfectly!

And btw - even though I think you libs are absolutely 100% theologically in error - I really really love the dickens out of you guys/gals!

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear Finella,
You wrote "also yes i agree do you wanna heal or hurt but i see the church like a badly disease ridden tree.."

But even though I don’t see the church like that overall, I see Jesus Christ as the truth and the healer rather than the church.

 

[Finella]

Dear Finella,
You wrote "also yes i agree do you wanna heal or hurt but i see the church like a badly disease ridden tree.."

But even though I don’t see the church like that overall, I see Jesus Christ as the truth and the healer rather than the church.

Uh, I never said that friend. I would never say such a thing.

And again, everyone, I am (and many liberals are) misunderstood. I do not claim my beliefs out of convenience or out of tolerance, I do see Christ in them -- and not by twisting anything, but by sincerely studying and contemplating and praying with God.

I do not accuse anyone of bigotry (where did I do that?). I understand wanting to have standards in our religion. I have major problems with abuses of power and the lifting of the almighty dollar above God's will. I do not advocate "everything goes" in our church, please do not label me with that. TEC is not perfect, and it never will be, but you are right -- we must strive to be the community we are called to be.

All I am asking is for some level of respect among us because, believe it or not, we DO have some beliefs in common. Probably more than we'd like to admit. But if you'd rather cut people off, fine. I can't make you respect or love anyone.

 

[holyshe]

where were you when I was looking for a wife

great post!

lmao more than likely indoors doing his ironing (how i hate ironing)
it is so hard with my right hand tied to the sink!!!

how these conservation christians treat us women is terrible!!!! lmao at least i am allowed out the house
alone now!! mind you it is to get his paper!!!! rofl lmso

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear Finella,
I acknowledge that didnt you say that but I thought you implied it.. please accept my apologies there.But my question is if Jesus Christ, the truth, the life and the way heals, what is the significance of the church in your comment?

My point is that too much liberal theology does not objectively address what the Biblical text states even before one gets a chance to interpret it, but addresses it subjectively with the opposite to what the text says. I call that disbelief. This is what brings the Anglican communion to impared relationship and the brink of schism.

I hear liberals say they believe, and the when I test what they say against the truth of the Bible and Jesus Christ's teaching in the NT I see it ias merely disbelief of it.

I am also very keen that we respect each other as posters, but I am not going to equate that to accepting disbelief and compromise.
When you talk of love please remember I believe we are to love God first and then each other. One doesnt stop loving someone just because one doesnt accept their viewpoint.

 

[higgs2]

Hello Everyone! Here is your new thread for discussing conservative/liberal issues. Please treat each other with respect and charity and remember that we are brothers and sisters in Christ. If that seems difficult, then please take a moment to review the Christian Forums rules.

THese are off topic posts from Glen's thread about his bishop.

THanks for your cooperation!

Peace be with you,
Higgs2,moderator Theology and STR

 

[brightmorningstar]

The OP asks
The sooner the right-wing secedes the better. If folk wish to be prejudiced in the name of religion they can go elsewhere to do it. I hear Nigeria is lovely at this time of the year.
I think the flaw here is the liberals think there is a right wing, but those who the liberals are referring to do not think they are right wing at all but that they are the church itself. Its the liberals who believe in the inclusiveness of opposing views.
Those 'right wingers' do not necessarily consider liberals a wing of the church at all, but rather not of the church.
This is a worthwhile observation of what is happening.
Unlike the usual case in the history of the church, its components have split over matters of interpretation, here we have a whole new different theology which exists the same in many denominations/ministries/churches. But its the theology frequently identifed in the NT as false.

 

[holyshe]

The OP asks
The sooner the right-wing secedes the better. If folk wish to be prejudiced in the name of religion they can go elsewhere to do it. I hear Nigeria is lovely at this time of the year.
I think the flaw here is the liberals think there is a right wing, but those who the liberals are referring to do not think they are right wing at all but that they are the church itself. Its the liberals who believe in the inclusiveness of opposing views.
Those 'right wingers' do not necessarily consider liberals a wing of the church at all, but rather not of the church.
This is a worthwhile observation of what is happening.
Unlike the usual case in the history of the church, its components have split over matters of interpretation, here we have a whole new different theology which exists the same in many denominations/ministries/churches. But its the theology frequently identifed in the NT as false.

what???
cant believe what you wrote or i misunderstand you??
liberal views as far as i am concerned have invaded the church and now we traditionalist are being told to <edit> (no matter how polite you put it) and if we dont like it tuff go back to rome ?? how is that inclusiveness????????????? plz explain....

i mean i have been told i am a woman hater i am behind the times i dont know how to interprate scripture, i am a poor down trooden women with no self confidence!!!
i am told i am a puppet with a male pulling the strings!!!
i am told i am homophobic cause i sadi bishops shouldn't be practising gays! i am told i am brain washed .
it is so sad that these so called liberal i have come accross cant accept i believe something because after looking at all the facts i made an informed choose? i have loads of confidence and believe in womens rights i love life and my church i think all should find the light of christ !!
i believe in a structure of faith a church of no heretic views!

 

[No Swansong]

Then I guess you'll be leaving soon?

He's not Anglican.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear holyshe

Actually I haven’t explained it properly as you have misunderstood?

I agree with your appraisal. There is no such thing as inclusiveness of different religions. Liberals talk of inclusiveness. God’s inclusiveness is that Christ’s He died for all to be reconciled and to come to life abundant and everlasting. The church of Jesus Christ can be inclusive of people who don’t recognise who He is or what He teaches.

You wrote
“i believe in a structure of faith a church of no heretic views!”
AMEN!

 

[brightmorningstar]

I was baptised and confirmed in the Anglican church and I am serving in an Anglican church. I have asked for my icon to be changed. But I consider myself foremost Christian not Anglican. My Anglican church is multicultural, all ages, all social status and many nationalities, and its growing. But we dont have members from other Christian churches/organisatations as well who are members, we work with others as well, RC, Baptists, Charismatics and pentecostalists.
So dont talk to me about inclusiveness of sexual sin disguised as love. The chuch isnt inclusive of that.