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Conservative/Liberal Anglican Discussion/Split from "Real Reason..."

Discussion in 'Scripture,Tradition,Reason-Anglican & Old Catholic' started by kiwimac, Mar 6, 2007.

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  1. kiwimac

    kiwimac Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian Supporter

    +1,379
    New Zealand
    Utrecht
    Married
    AU-Greens
    The sooner the right-wing secedes the better. If folk wish to be prejudiced in the name of religion they can go elsewhere to do it. I hear Nigeria is lovely at this time of the year.
     
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  2. Simon_Templar

    Simon_Templar Not all who wander are lost

    +998
    Catholic
    Single
    Yes, and the sooner the apostates get fed up with the communion the better. If new agers and gnostics insist on poluting the christian faith, they can do it elsewhere.
     
  3. AveMaria

    AveMaria Anglo-Catholic Tat Queen

    +192
    Anglican
    US-Democrat
    Christ have mercy.

    Sometimes, I feel like all we can do in STR is sling mud at each other . . .

    Y'know, there's a whole lot of room in the Anglican Big Tent between "Fascist" and "New Ager". And I suspect the majority of us do fall somewhere in the middle. But I guess it's easier to label people as the other.
     
  4. DeoJuvante

    DeoJuvante Senior Member

    601
    +52
    Catholic
    AU-Greens
    That's how I feel sometimes. I mean, why should we continue to pander to a right wing who has made it clear that they consider the church to have no place for our theology and never will.
     
  5. AngCath

    AngCath Well-Known Member

    +139
    Anglican
    YES!

    i know it's hard sometimes to belong to a Communion that does not have a Confession by which to check your personal "anglicanness" but that's what I see as a strength.
     
  6. karen freeinchristman

    karen freeinchristman More of You and less of me, Lord! Supporter

    +444
    Anglican
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Bravo! A self-professed conservative with this kind of thinking is really to be high-fived! :) :wave: :clap:
     
  7. plaid_pixie

    plaid_pixie New Member

    101
    +1
    Christian
    the thing is this. the christian faith doesn't change. i hold the same views as anastasia amd perpetua, monica, and ann. that is the same faith that bishop lawrence professes. but it is not the same as that professed by bishops robinson, griswold, and schori. THAT is my problem.
     
  8. kiwimac

    kiwimac Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian Supporter

    +1,379
    New Zealand
    Utrecht
    Married
    AU-Greens
    My basic line in the sand is this.

    Will you hurt or heal in the name of Christ?

    If you are going to hurt, go elsewhere.
     
  9. Simon_Templar

    Simon_Templar Not all who wander are lost

    +998
    Catholic
    Single
    I agree completely. This is what many conservatives have been saying as well. The communion right now is living in a state of denial. Division, or schizm, or whatever you want to call it exists whether we acknoledge it or not.

    The fact is that you guys consider my consider my beliefs to be unacceptable. I, as you point out, feel the same way about yours.

    We are divided. Even if we went to the same parish and took comunion side by side, we would still be divided.
     
  10. Simon_Templar

    Simon_Templar Not all who wander are lost

    +998
    Catholic
    Single
    Then I guess you'll be leaving soon?
     
  11. AngCath

    AngCath Well-Known Member

    +139
    Anglican
    Taking communion together is more important than I think you are implying here.
     
  12. longhair75

    longhair75 Finally back Home Supporter

    +816
    Catholic
    Married
    When I take Communion, the priest does not ask me if I am a conservative or a liberal.
     
  13. Timothy

    Timothy Mad Anglican geek at large

    +352
    Anglican
    Single
    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    The big question is deep down, do we still acknowledge that we are one Body? Our liturgy affirms: "We break this bread to share in the Body of Christ, though we are many, we are one body, because we all share in one bread."
     
  14. norbie

    norbie Veteran

    +59
    Anglican
    Married
    This is a very sad statement. Remember 'one bread one body'.
    Shouldn't you talk together and shake hands BEFORE you receive the Hl.Communion?
    Your Brother in Christ,
    Norbie
     
  15. Finella

    Finella Veteran

    +191
    Anglican
    Married
    Oy.
     
  16. Conservative and liberal means little. If a conservative is in line with the truth of Jesus Christ and His NT teaching then thats good, if a liberal is in line with the truth of Jesus Christ and His NT teaching then thats good.
    Sadly with the Anglican communion many are not in line and I note they seem to be labelled 'liberal'
     
  17. Finella

    Finella Veteran

    +191
    Anglican
    Married
    The problem being that such "liberals" DO think they are "in line" with the truth of Jesus Christ and his teaching.

    Can we tone down the animosity in here, btw? Whatever perspective we come from, we do it because we believe it is the truth. We are sincerely trying to seek Christ in what we say and do. Can we honor that? If not, we are regressing to name-calling and being less than who Christ wants us to be.
     
  18. Simon_Templar

    Simon_Templar Not all who wander are lost

    +998
    Catholic
    Single
    Do you want my honest answer?

    In either case I'm going to give it. Honestly no, I don't believe we are one body anymore. Which is what I was getting at in my statement regarding still being divided even if we take communion together.
    I'm not down playing the importance of the eucharist, I'm saying I believe that even if we take communion together, and claim to be in one body it is essentially a lie. We are not.

    While I believe that RCC and Orthodox are wrong in the standards they apply to exclude people from communion, their statement is essentially correct that it is common belief which is the basis of true communion, and the eucharist can only truly follow where there is a certain shared basis of belief.
     
  19. Dear Finella,
    The problem with liberals is that their arguments can so often be seen to be opposite of what the Bible actually says. One can only interpret what the Bible says if we are objective and acknowledge what it actually says in the first place.
    I am amused that you find my comments ‘animosity’ as I am not intending it to be such. I am only stating what I can see from logic and common sense. The current schismable issue illustrates this, it is not the only one. As to scripture there are passages which state and indicate women should not be in positions of leadership, and passages which suggest they were. As to same-sex practice there are only passages that exclude it and clearly condemn it.
    The other problem is liberals keep claiming the unity of the same church organisation, conservatives point out it is faith and belief that unites the true church. There is the mismatch
    So it isn’t actually whatever perspective we come from, that is just the liberal point of view, What you said is incorrect. "We are sincerely trying to seek Christ in what we say and do. Can we honor that? If not, we are regressing to name-calling and being less than who Christ wants us to be"
    No we cant honour that, as the one thing I bleieve Christ does not want us to be, is liberal. I attempt to honour God not compromise His word. I am saying many liberals are clearly not seeking Christ when they fundamentally dispute what the NT records and holistically shows us even before one gets a chance to interpret it
    I don’t consider it name calling to point this out, it is the liberal theology I reject outright, not the people who hold it.
    An in conclusion Christ wants us to be more like Him by following and obeying what he taught, which is love, and includes restoring brothers from sin and rebuking disbelief and clear false teaching.

    Your position on this is not the same as mine please don’t suggest I follow it.
     
  20. holyshe

    holyshe Member

    440
    +7
    Anglican
    Married
    wow where do i start???
    i want to quote most of you but cant be bothered to copy and paste loads so heres a few thoughts instead....

    no the priest dont ask if your lib or con but infact to take communuin at that church is statement in its self you are stating publically you are in communuin with that priest and church and views if not why go there?? and if you wanna say thats not so then why no just go to any bleeding church from any demonination? just a thought .... thats why i pick my church and vicar carefully for i dont wanna follow heretics as such....

    also yes i agree do you wanna heal or hurt but i see the church like a badly disease ridden tree with grafts stuck on to it and there are some who say leave it allone just let it sort it self out let just let luck decide if it lives or dies...... but i on the other hand like many wanna give it a good prune and dicard all the newly added grafts and cut out all the disease..........and then after time it will grow and flurish

    anyway i just think like this... i believe in god and jesus and the bible and the holy ghost
    i believe in love and truth and kindness

    but one thing i always cling to is half truths are lies so only the full truth must be preserved
     
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