Conservative commits suicide following backlash for harassing a drag queen

Zoii said:

So what are you telling me. You refuse not to follow the OP and that your going to continue your LGBTI commentary despite my efforts to keep you and others on the OP. I just don't get what's so tough about respecting this OP. If homosexuality and liberalism had you riled up, can't you find another thread to contribute to?

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See my prior post.

Zoii said:

If homosexuality and liberalism had you riled up, can't you find another thread to contribute to?

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You are way of base on who did the riling....worse yet, you know that was not true.

Zoii said:

If this is your way of saying your going to respect the OP.... Then thank you. Now come on... I'm sure you have thoughts about the strategies used by religions.... Good or not good

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No, it was a prior post that indicated such, and that all depends.

I've already said my piece on the OP, and you know how that turned out, so..

Zoii said:

Firstly, I went to some trouble to NOT turn this into a debate about homosexuality/transgenderism.

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I did not mention homosexuality in my post, not once.

I discussed the hidden agenda of those using the platform of Drag Queen Story Time to promote their agenda to children and exactly who a sizable percentage of those doing so actually are.

Zoii said:

But you have done your level best to tell me all the reasons why you should ignore the OP and voice the very thing this OP is NOT about.

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Did you or did you not cite Drag Queen Story Time and the fact a Drag Queen was reading stories in your OP? The only honest answer to that question is yes. The only answer to that question is yes.

Zoii said:

As I've mentioned frequently here - This OP is about how religious groups can better sell their message - You chose to ignore that in favour of grabbing a soapbox to, yet again, decry homosexuality.

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Again, I did not mention homosexuality in my post even one time. How could you not know that? Therefore, why the misrepresentation? Or, perhaps, are you attempting to state all Drag Queens are also homosexuals?

Zoii said:

Don't get me wrong, your view is fair enough - this is a christian site - but there's many threads where you can do that. The specific example provided was purely to provide a background example of how things turned out badly for all concerned - was there a better way.

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As someone else has already illustrated, the only connection between the protest cited in the OP article and the suicide cited in the OP article is that one event occurred after the other. There is no evidence at all presented in the OP article to support the claim the young man committed suicide because of his involvement in the protest of a Drag Queen. That claim is only wishful thinking on the part of some people.

Zoii said:

So please stick to the OP - Im not going to allow you or anyone else to go off topic unchallenged and turn this into a sexual or political debate.

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Simple question, Zoli. Are these your words from your OP or not?

Zoii said:

This story is about a group of Australian conservatives (I do not know if they have a religious persuasion or not) who decided to go to a library event where a drag queen was reading a story to children.

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You can claim this wasn't the primary issue expressed in your OP, but it was an issue expressed in your OP. By default that renders it fair game for response. My central point, which obviously you failed to grasp, was "the religious," as you call them, and in particular Christians, are not tasked with being doormats and mutely accepting any and all forms of deviancy but rather just the opposite.

To phrase it alternatively, "the religious" and in particular Christians and Christianity are not at fault for potentially hurting the feelings of a Drag Queen himself in the act of promoting deviancy to children. "The religious" and in particular Christians and Christianity are not to blame for the fact this young man took his life.

In addition, those who wrote the OP article do not know why he took his life, nor do they care. The OP article was written in further attempt to promote an agenda.

Zoii said:

Secondly - You google the net in attempt to make a correlation between Transgenerism and paedophilia...

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Not true. I cited specific examples of where Drag Queens performing Drag Queen Story Time were actually discovered to have criminal records which included pedophilia.

By doing so, whose feelings do you believe I am hurting?

Zoii said:

...and cited an example where a symbol was "liked" on social media.

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For a symbol to have any value as a symbol, it must convey the same meaning every time it is employed. The specific symbol referenced in the article I posted has a very specific meaning for those comprising a very specific group.

If you were to enter someone's house or perhaps a business downtown and see a cross hanging upside-down on the wall, would this not give you pause to consider whether you really needed to be there?

Zoii said:

I'm sure youre intelligent enough to know your logic is false - If you were ethical and consistent in your argument, you would have found that more then 10000 percent greater numbers of straight/non-trans men who were pedophiles...

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10,000 percent. Really? I suppose you can provide a citation for that.

What you are attempting to say is according to FBI statistics non-hispanic white males comprise, on average, 80% of those convicted for either pedophilia or other sexual offenses related to children. However after calling me unethical what you further imply is that somehow Drag Queens can't be white males. Or if they are they can't be guilty of any sexual offenses related to children. And you think my logic is false.

Zoii said:

...using your logic you'd say all pastors are paedophiles...

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I made no such claim. Your statement is false.

Zoii said:

...or all men are paedophiles.

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I made no such claim. Your statement is false.

Zoii said:

...A drag Queen reading to kids = paedophile. Thats a very unethical argument - and you know it.

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I made no such argument. Your statement is false.

Zoii said:

...why not return to the OP and argue - was there a better way to achieve the group's ends...

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Why cite "the religious" as the only people possibly at fault? And again, the use of the term "the religious" is a poorly crafted metaphor employed to promote a leftist trope. Read the OP article you yourself posted. The only actual sympathy expressed is for the Drag Queen who goes by the name Diamond Good-Rim.

I am truly curious. Would you take your children to hear stories read by Drag Queen, or indeed anyone, promoting themselves as Diamond Good-Rim?

Zoii said:

...is blockade/protest indeed a right way to go about things in some circumstances.

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I actually addressed this issue prior, however to restate my position by rephrasing. If Christians are not willing to defend Christian values, what purpose do those values actually serve?

Sistrin said:

Not true. I cited specific examples of where Drag Queens performing Drag Queen Story Time were actually discovered to have criminal records which included pedophilia.

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what was your motive for doing this?

Quartermaine said:

what was your motive for doing this?

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Because there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Because Christians are not tasked to be doormats submissively accepting whatever behavior someone chooses to flaunt in their collective face.

Because as sad as the young man's death is, no evidence exist his suicide was directly related to the protest of Diamond Good-Rim.

Because Diamond Good-Rim. Are you kidding me?

Because in this instance neither Christians nor "the Religious," whoever the OP may have meant by employing that phrase, have any need to bow and scrape and genuflect because someone may have hurt someone's feelings.

Because the question of what could "the religious" have done differently in this situation is by default an assertion "the religious" are to blame for whatever slight the writer of the OP article is wailing about.

Sistrin said:

10,000 percent. Really? I suppose you can provide a citation for that.

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I'm sure Zoii just guessed but she has the right of it

the percentage of LGBT child molesters is 0.04% (Jenny, C; Roesler, Thomas A.; Poyer, Kimberly L. “Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals?” Pediatrics)

If you tease out the math you get that it is close to to 10000%

I made no such claim. Your statement is false.



I made no such claim. Your statement is false.



I made no such argument. Your statement is false.

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Zoii didn't say you did. what she said was "Using your logic" so it is your defense that is false[/quote][/QUOTE]

Sistrin said:

Because there are none so blind as those who will not see.

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what a load of self righteous garbage

Because Christians are not tasked to be doormats submissively accepting whatever behavior someone chooses to flaunt in their collective face.

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But drag queens are supposed to be doormats?

How dare they or anyone protest a bunch of nutbags barging in to a reading program and attacking and denouncing and generally doing nothing but disrupting the lives of children.

Because as sad as the young man's death is, no evidence exist his suicide was directly related to the protest of Diamond Good-Rim.

Because Diamond Good-Rim. Are you kidding me?

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if i had to choose between my own children meeting Diamond or meeting you at the library - it would be an easy choice. Just like i would not choose for them to meet someone who tries to associate black people with rape.

Because in this instance neither Christians nor "the Religious," whoever the OP may have meant by employing that phrase, have any need to bow and scrape and genuflect because someone may have hurt someone's feelings.

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an apology to the kids for bad and rude behavior is bowing and scraping?

Because the question of what could "the religious" have done differently in this situation is by default an assertion "the religious" are to blame for whatever slight the writer of the OP article is wailing about.

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you mean the disruptive and hateful attack of a children's program

Michie said:

Friends remember ‘hero’ student found dead after protest against ‘drag queen’ event for kids

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disrupting a children's reading event makes you a hero?

Sistrin said:

If Christians are not willing to defend Christian values, what good are they.

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I find this such a strange question. I don't see "defending" Christian values (by protesting, or attacking people who hold different values to me, and behave accordingly) as something that should be a priority for Christians at all.

The world will be the world; let it. We don't have to try to make non-Christians conform to our values, and inevitably we do a world of damage when we try. Our priority should be the mission of God, which is not about trying to force others to conform to a standard of behaviour, but about proclaiming the good news of the kingdom.

This is where I think Zoii's question has merit. Why do we think we have to "defend" Christian values? And what are the best ways to do that, if we do think it's imperative?

Zoii said:

As I've mentioned frequently here - This OP is about how religious groups can better sell their message -

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Zoii, the confrontational and belligerent attitude is part of their message.

I will have to break the statement down for clarity.

Paidiske said:

I find this such a strange question. I don't see "defending" Christian values...as something that should be a priority for Christians at all.

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Then why bother to profess Christianity? If you do not perceive Christian values as worth defending when they come under assault, then what is the value of practicing them?

If, whenever you are challenged by anyone promoting an agenda at odds with your values, you simply fold under the pressure quite soon no one will take you seriously. As an example, from a December 2018 article published by NBC News concerning the Satanic Temple of Chicago erecting a monument during the Christmas season, quote:

"When Chicago's Satanic Temple announced the design on Instagram last month, the group said they were "bringing a message to the Illinois state capital that religious freedom means freedom of representation for ALL religions... not just the ones that don't offend Christians."

Ask the logical question. If the Temple members were truly concerned with religious freedom, why single out Christians for mockery and disdain? The answer is because mocking and attacking Christianity is exactly their point. In response to such are Christians simply to remain mute, meekly stare at the ground as they walk by, refuse to challenge the issue in fear they might, heaven forbid, offend someone over at the Satanic Temple of Chicago?

We live in the world we live in, true. But hiding from it isn't an effective strategy and if your beliefs are not worth defending then there isn't any point in holding them.

Paidiske said:

...by protesting, or attacking people who hold different values to me, and behave accordingly...

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Christians are not allowed to protest? In the case of the individuals cited as the protesters in the OP article they were not identified as Christians but rather members of the Liberal National Club, which apparently in Australia means Conservatives. However to maintain the narrative I do not condone attacking people but then I also do not consider chanting "drag queens are not for kids" an attack. I wouldn't go to a library and stand around chanting slogans but if our local library hosted a Drag Queen Story Time event, I would lodge my complaint through the appropriate channels. Why? Because according to my values drag queens are not for kids.

I have to wonder. If you had lived in Chicago during the time that statue was erected, would you have taken your children down to see it because...inclusion? Diversity? We must honor other people's beliefs regardless of how destructive they may be? If you knew someone in your neighborhood embraced the values associated with drunken orgies, would merrily accept an invitation to their next party?

You don't have to answer any of these questions, as they are only posed to illustrate my point. For Christian values to have any meaning as Christian values, one must be willing to practice and defend them. Otherwise what is the point.

Paidiske said:

The world will be the world; let it.

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Yeah because apathy and appeasement always work.

Paidiske said:

We don't have to try to make non-Christians conform to our values...

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Your choice of language is telling. Who said anything about making anyone conform to Christian values? My passion is commonly misconstrued as arrogance. It is conviction. As a father, particularly now, it is my primary responsibility to protect my children as best I can from the negative influences of those promoting deviance in all of its forms. And I do not accomplish that by blaming some amorphous group tagged as "the religious" but rather by being proactive.

Seriously, if any of you do not understand the hidden agenda and the embedded message of someone adopting the stage-name Diamond Good-Rim, I can't explain it to you here. But I can say it has nothing to do with the promotion of reading books or stories.

Paidiske said:

Our priority should be the mission of God, which is not about trying to force others to conform to a standard of behavior, but about proclaiming the good news of the kingdom.

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I did not advocate for inquisition style witnessing.

Paidiske said:

Why do we think we have to "defend" Christian values?

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The bottom line is this. Because there is a war going on, and it isn't any of the ones discussed in the daily news.

Sistrin said:

Ask the logical question. If the Temple members were truly concerned with religious freedom, why single out Christians

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Because Christians are the people putting their religious displays on government property at Christmastime.

Sistrin said:

If Christians are not willing to defend Christian values, what good are they.

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I find this such a strange question. I don't see "defending" Christian values (by protesting, or attacking people who hold different values to me, and behave accordingly) as something that should be a priority for Christians at all.

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That's too bad, I don't find it the least bit strange, but I do find it strange anyone would find defending Christian values as "strange", especially something as rotten as this (disclaimer, this is not all directed at you, Paidiske, you only brought to a head what others seem to have been conveying)

Why is is so hard to understand some Christians are going to put their foot down at Drag Queens teaching kids, or socializing with them at all, and that we don't care what the "Jesus is all about Lovey Dovey, and don't hate anything, not even evil, every one and their sinful ways are welcome in and never confront anyone for being "who they are", attitudes.

Just coddle those Drag Queens, treat them with the love of Jesus, and the respect they deserve. Don't tell them they are wrong. Treat them with the utmost of kindness and let them mix with our children. Show them we accept them just as they are, while teaching the same to our children, because that's what Jesus would want?

No. Some of you simply do not get it. You all love the world, the deplorable, and welcome it in with open arms if you want, but I'll pass. That's what some of you seem to be saying, and that would be the last thing Christ would want us to do..let the cancer in and nurture it.

I'm guessing this would be one of the times Christ would be furious, flipping tables over and running screaming drag queens out with a whip.

Sistrin said:

Then why bother to profess Christianity? If you do not perceive Christian values as worth defending when they come under assault, then what is the value of practicing them?

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The value of practicing Christian values is living a life of integrity, one which is life-giving, loving, and joyful.

Here's the thing, though; I don't see other people - non-Christians - living their lives not in accordance with my values as an "assault" on my values. I believe they deserve the same space to live their values with integrity as I would claim for myself.

Sistrin said:

If, whenever you are challenged by anyone promoting an agenda at odds with your values, you simply fold under the pressure quite soon no one will take you seriously.

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If they're trying to dictate how I (or others) live, then I have a problem. If they're simply wanting to live their own life according to their own values, then I should have good enough boundaries to let them be (which I don't see as "folding under pressure"). I do not find that people fail to take me seriously for taking this approach.

Sistrin said:

Ask the logical question. If the Temple members were truly concerned with religious freedom, why single out Christians for mockery and disdain?

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Because Christianity has often denied others religious freedom.

Sistrin said:

In response to such are Christians simply to remain mute, meekly stare at the ground as they walk by, refuse to challenge the issue in fear they might, heaven forbid, offend someone over at the Satanic Temple of Chicago?

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We might say or do things which offend others, but I don't think we have the right to refuse them the open practice of their religion, either.

Sistrin said:

Christians are not allowed to protest?

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Not exactly what I said. I said I saw no need to protest to "defend Christian values," when that seems to mean imposing Christian values on others.

Sistrin said:

I have to wonder. If you had lived in Chicago during the time that statue was erected, would you have taken your children down to see it because...inclusion? Diversity? We must honor other people's beliefs regardless of how destructive they may be? If you knew someone in your neighborhood embraced the values associated with drunken orgies, would merrily accept an invitation to their next party?

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Taken my child to see it, as the purpose of our being there? Probably not. But I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid it, and if we had been there, and seen it, I would explain that it is part of another religion, and to try to explain something of that religion.

We have to live in the world alongside all sorts of other people; I see it as my role as a parent to equip my child to understand and be a good neighbour to people of all faiths and none.

Sistrin said:

Your choice of language is telling. Who said anything about making anyone conform to Christian values?

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Wanting to stop others from doing drag queen story time, because you don't agree with it, is trying to make those others conform to your Christian values.

Sistrin said:

The bottom line is this. Because there is a war going on, and it isn't any of the ones discussed in the daily news.

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My neighbours are not my enemies in a war. They are, at worst, walking wounded who deserve love, respect and care. "For our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."

Paidiske said:

The value of practicing Christian values is living a life of integrity, one which is life-giving, loving, and joyful.

Here's the thing, though; I don't see other people - non-Christians - living their lives not in accordance with my values as an "assault" on my values. I believe they deserve the same space to live their values with integrity as I would claim for myself.

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Some Christians confuse acceptance with affirmation. When we start forcing Christians to go to Drag Queen Story Hour, then maybe they will have something to complain about.