Conservative commits suicide following backlash for harassing a drag queen

[Zoii]

Before I begin, allow me to exclude elements that we can all accept - That is:

• This site, and a large proportion of individuals (of all religious persuasions) do not condone homosexuality. Indeed many non-religious people revile homosexuality.
• Equally, there is an increasing proportion of individuals that have an opposing opinion. We all know that so please - DONT GET CHILDISH AND RESORT TO A " HOMOSEXUALS ARE BAD VS NO THEY ARE NOT" debate. We know one another's position so it doesn't need a debate for the one millionth time here.

This story is about a group of Australian conservatives (I do not know if they have a religious persuasion or not) who decided to go to a library event where a drag queen was reading a story to children.

NOW - Before you jump in and say ARGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH, the children attended with the full knowledge and consent of their parents who had no issue with it.

Apparently the conservatives disrupted the event and there was some minor confrontation. There was some backlash against those individuals and the principal instigator in particular.

This principal instigator later took his life. Testimonies about his character talked of the young man being a kind and thoughtful individual.

Whats this thread about? - Australia has seen several cases of this ilk. A very prominent sportsman was dismissed for reviling people he did not approve of on religious grounds. He was dismissed from his contract. Now there's this example.

My question is - Are those of religious persuasion, being adequately educated on how to "Sell" there religious message. How well are they being counselled. For when you weigh up the cost - What good was achieved by this young person - What good was achieved by the famous rugby player. What good has come out of it all - Indeed it'd seem that all that was gained was upset, anger, negatives. Was there a better way that would entice people to listen, instead of causing disharmony.

Head of Liberal National Club who mobbed drag queens reading to kids dies

 

[SkyWriting]

Before I begin, allow me to exclude elements that we can all accept - That is:

• This site, and a large proportion of individuals (of all religious persuasions) do not condone homosexuality. Indeed many non-religious people revile homosexuality.
• Equally, there is an increasing proportion of individuals that have an opposing opinion. We all know that so please - DONT GET CHILDISH AND RESORT TO A " HOMOSEXUALS ARE BAD VS NO THEY ARE NOT" debate. We know one another's position so it doesn't need a debate for the one millionth time here.

This story is about a group of Australian conservatives (I do not know if they have a religious persuasion or not) who decided to go to a library event where a drag queen was reading a story to children.

NOW - Before you jump in and say ARGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH, the children attended with the full knowledge and consent of their parents who had no issue with it.

Apparently the conservatives disrupted the event and there was some minor confrontation. There was some backlash against those individuals and the principal instigator in particular.

This principal instigator later took his life. Testimonies about his character talked of the young man being a kind and thoughtful individual.

Whats this thread about? - Australia has seen several cases of this ilk. A very prominent sportsman was dismissed for reviling people he did not approve of on religious grounds. He was dismissed from his contract. Now there's this example.

My question is - Are those of religious persuasion, being adequately educated on how to "Sell" there religious message. How well are they being counselled. For when you weigh up the cost - What good was achieved by this young person - What good was achieved by the famous rugby player. What good has come out of it all - Indeed it'd seem that all that was gained was upset, anger, negatives. Was there a better way that would entice people to listen, instead of causing disharmony.

Head of Liberal National Club who mobbed drag queens reading to kids dies

I find that people who protest anything have thin skin and fragile egos.
They tend to form groups because as individuals they can't stand up for themselves.

 

[Zoii]

I find that people who protest anything have thin skin and fragile egos.
They tend to form groups because as individuals they can't stand up for themselves.

Well - no I can't agree with that - I don't think (as an example) the mass demonstration concerning the Vietnam War was about fragile egos, I think it was a socio-cultural movement. My point being that, not all who demonstrate are frail individuals - many have legitimate concerns they are voicing. In this case though, it was an attempt to show people that homosexuality was wrong (Im presuming on religious grounds but I don't know that for sure) and was there a better way - did their action really achieve anything or in fact was it all one big negative.

 

[bèlla]

Running roughshod over others is acceptable to some for the sake of the gospel. They have a false liberty that God never gave.

~Bella

 

[Gene2memE]

Look at it this way.

Australia is a (relatively) permissive and strongly secular society (we're also the least trusting Western country when it comes to religious authority). Although there is a very strong belief that religious views should be respected, and a traditionalist element (which now increasingly identifies with US-style Evangelical protestantism and 'conservatism') Australians also are very strongly skeptical of religious authority figures telling us what we can and cant do.

So, doing something like publicly stating certain classes of people deserve eternal punishment for certain characteristics or behaviours, or harassing a voluntary, non-demonstrative book reading (making children cry in the process), is not going to endear you to the wider population.

Younger Australians - who now count 'No religion' as their majority religious view - generally think religion is only a private individual’s right to believe what they wish. Anyone who uses religion to actively discriminate against someone is going to get discriminated against themselves (hello, paradox of tolerance). Younger Australians also tend to be more active on social media - and increasingly politically - than their older counterparts.

So, the answer is - if you want to sell Aussies on religions, be aware that ANYTHING you say is going to be treated with both distrust and skepticism. Particularly if what you are saying promotes some form of discriminatory or exclusionary behaviour, or denigrates other Aussies.

If you want to "entice people to listen", do it by being the most Christ-like Christians you can. New Testament, rather than Old Testament.

 

[Hank77]

Well - no I can't agree with that - I don't think (as an example) the mass demonstration concerning the Vietnam War was about fragile egos, I think it was a socio-cultural movement. My point being that not all who demonstrate as frail individuals - many have legitimate concerns they are voicing. In this case though, it was an attempt to show people that homosexuality was wrong (Im presuming on religious grounds but I don't know that for sure) and was there a better way - did their action really achieve anything or in fact was all one big negative.

I don't think we have enough information to know if any good came out of it, we only know the negative.

 

[Zoii]

Look at it this way.

Australia is a (relatively) permissive and strongly secular society (we're also the least trusting Western country when it comes to religious authority). Although there is a very strong belief that religious views should be respected, and a traditionalist element (which now increasingly identifies with US-style Evangelical protestantism and 'conservatism') Australians also are very strongly skeptical of religious authority figures telling us what we can and cant do.

So, doing something like publicly stating certain classes of people deserve eternal punishment for certain characteristics or behaviours, or harassing a voluntary, non-demonstrative book reading (making children cry in the process), is not going to endear you to the wider population.

Younger Australians - who now count 'No religion' as their majority religious view - generally think religion is only a private individual’s right to believe what they wish. Anyone who uses religion to actively discriminate against someone is going to get discriminated against themselves (hello, paradox of tolerance). Younger Australians also tend to be more active on social media - and increasingly politically - than their older counterparts.

So, the answer is - if you want to sell Aussies on religions, be aware that ANYTHING you say is going to be treated with both distrust and skepticism. Particularly if what you are saying promotes some form of discriminatory or exclusionary behaviour, or denigrates other Aussies.

If you want to "entice people to listen", do it by being the most Christ-like Christians you can. New Testament, rather than Old Testament.

A very well written reply

So, if I hear you correctly, they could have joined in that event, promoting Jesus loves everyone, and maybe parked the queen-bashing element in front of the kids. That sort of thing?
OR as in Folau's case - Jesus loves you kids, Great to see you on the rugby field today. Your welcome any time at our church - instead of - Your dad whose atheist is going to hell.

Is this what you mean?

 

[Zoii]

I don't think we have enough information to know if any good came out of it, we only know the negative.

Well a confrontation in front of the kids. Kids upset. Parents upset. Drag Queens upset. LNP reps upset. Principal instigator commits suicide. If there's an up-side then it is maybe drowned in that sea of terrible outcomes.

 

[raindog75]

Yeah. You save all that good stuff until you've got 'em in the fold...(sarcasm)

 

[dzheremi]

This is sad on many levels. It's really easy to not bother other people. There could've been so many other ways to try to make a point if you wanted to say that you have problems with the drag queen program, like talking to the people who put it on or sent their kids to it about what they are trying to accomplish.

 

[Leet]

While I disagree in this new wave of drag queens for storytime, how idiotical to storm in and protest, traumatizing the kids. This Wilson Gavin must have had previous mental health instability to have taken his own life imo.
:-(

 

[Nithavela]

I don't condone driving people to suicide, but this kind of behaviour towards homosexuals, transsexuals and the likes heavily contributes to those groups higher than normal suicide rates. There's no justice in any of this, just oppression that backfired and killed a propably disturbed individual.

 

[Zoii]

While I disagree in this new wave of drag queens for storytime, how idiotical to storm in and protest, traumatizing the kids. This Wilson Gavin must have had previous mental health instability to have taken his own life imo.
:-(

It seems yes he did have some struggles with depression - but how accurate that information is, I don't know. But he was a young person who made an ill-considered confrontation. The outcome for him was suicide.

You see it sometimes with people waving placards outside schools and frequently getting into angry confrontations. It makes me think that religious groups should consider better the strategies to sell their message and educate their parishioners.

My mum and dad are Buddhists. We turn up to church (they don't call it church - but whatever) and everyone brings along a meal. In the sermon (they don't call it a sermon either) they emphasize - hey if you are a good Christian - don't change it, stick with it because its working for you - they then say, hey instead lets discuss what being a decent person is about. Then afterwards we all go downstairs and have a massive meal.

Heck - awesome food always brings you back - No need to shout at anyone like these unfortunate young men did.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Australia is a (relatively) permissive and strongly secular society (we're also the least trusting Western country when it comes to religious authority).

Even still, who, as recently as ten years ago, had ever heard of drag queens reading to children in public libraries? It would have sounded like a sick joke.

Whats this thread about? - Australia has seen several cases of this ilk. A very prominent sportsman was dismissed for reviling people he did not approve of on religious grounds. He was dismissed from his contract.

Hmm. Australia doesn't sound so permissive after all...

 

[Zoii]

Even still, who, as recently as ten years ago, had ever heard of drag queens reading to children in public libraries? It would have sounded like a sick joke.



Hmm. Australia doesn't sound so permissive after all...

Lets suppose you are right - You read the newspaper and the headlines say " Australia voted least permissive nation in the world - Boris Johnson and Donald Trump shake hands and agree never to go there"

So - given now that I agree with you - was the approach by this group, a strategy you would espouse. What end did it achieve. What would you have done differently.

 

[Not David]

People on the left have protested organized events, even by entering buildings here in the US. I don't see why people on the right cannot do the same. If someone deals with depression, maybe that person should not be involved in protests.

I say that as someone who got insulted in Social Media by "a friend" for reporting stuff from my native country.

 

[Zoii]

People on the left have protested organized events, even by entering buildings here in the US. I don't see why people on the right cannot do the same. If someone deals with depression, maybe that person should not be involved in protests.

I say that as someone who got insulted in Social Media by "a friend" for reporting stuff from my native country.

And did you think that their protest/confrontation was successful and how would you measure that. Are these methods of "selling" your religious view, what you advocate?

 

[Zoii]

people on the left have protested organized events

I should also point out that the conservative political movement of Australia did not support his actions.

 

[Not David]

And did you think that their protest/confrontation was successful and how would you measure that. Are these methods of "selling" your religious view, what you advocate?

I don't know if it was successful, I have no data but I would guess barely anyone changed their minds.

I don't sell my religion. I tell people why it is right and if they want to believe good, if not whatever.

 

[Zoii]

I don't know if it was successful, I have no data but I would guess barely anyone changed their minds.

I don't sell my religion. I tell people why it is right and if they want to believe good, if not whatever.

I think given that the kids were really upset by the confrontation, so were the parents, the drag queens, and those protesting - everyone upset. Then it spilled out the doors and into social media. His party was upset, the library was upset - the principal protagonists committed suicide. Is that not enough to measure whether or not it was a successful strategy?

I would suggest that some benefits are better than others, particularly if you are seeking to influence people to your views...although I acknowledge you say you don't care if they believe you or not..... which makes me wonder why you bothered