Consequence of Sin

ArmyMatt

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Why according to orthodoxy do infants die?

because they are mortal, which all men inherited from Adam in the Fall along with corruption and an inclination to sin. it has nothing to do with legalism or any guilt because of Adam's sin.
 
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JM

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because they are mortal, which all men inherited from Adam in the Fall along with corruption and an inclination to sin. it has nothing to do with legalism or any guilt because of Adam's sin.

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that HAD NOT SINNED after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband." Romans 5, 6 & 7

Is Paul not saying that due to Adam's sin/breaking of a commandment, penal/criminal judgement has fallen upon all of Adam's prosperity and they are considered law breakers guilty of Adam's sin? According to your answer Matt, "death is the consequence of sin..." doesn't that leap to a conclusion that excludes "for the wages of sin is death?" In Romans we read that they HAD NOT SINNED after the similitude of Adam's transgression yet all of humanity still receives Adam's punishment. How is it possible that humanity inherited the punishment for Adam's crime? Is it fair to say that all of humanity in Adam fell into sin and all of humanity in Christ will be saved? If that is fair to say, why?

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners..."

How did Adam's commandment breaking (not to eat of the fruit of the tree) make us "sinners," allowing babies to die without actual sin, making us guilty of sin?

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

According to Orthodoxy how did "death pass upon all men, for that all have sinned?"

Thanks,

jm
 
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prodromos

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Is it a consequence in the same way that breaking the law leads to jail time?
It is a consequence in the sense that you are breaking communion and moving away from the source of all life. I don't think it has anything in common with crime and punishment, but that's just me. They are loaded terms which produce a distorted view of God IMO.
 
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JM

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It is a consequence in the sense that you are breaking communion and moving away from the source of all life. I don't think it has anything in common with crime and punishment, but that's just me. They are loaded terms which produce a distorted view of God IMO.

Gotcha. Thanks.
 
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ArmyMatt

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According to your answer Matt, "death is the consequence of sin..." doesn't that leap to a conclusion that excludes "for the wages of sin is death?"

a consequence is not necessarily a bad thing, it's just whatever follows. the consequence of study and hard work is a good grade. and a wage is something desired. when we sin, we show we want the end state of sin, which is death.

In Romans we read that they HAD NOT SINNED after the similitude of Adam's transgression yet all of humanity still receives Adam's punishment. How is it possible that humanity inherited the punishment for Adam's crime?

we didn't inherit the punishment for Adam's crime. a baby who is born with HIV because his dad slept around is not punished for the disease, but he must live with HIV.

Is it fair to say that all of humanity in Adam fell into sin and all of humanity in Christ will be saved? If that is fair to say, why?

in the sense that Christ is risen and death is overthrown, yes, all of humanity is saved. BUT, for those that desire sin or what leads to death (ie a hardened heart against God), that very salvation God offers is the torment, and in that sense, no, not all of humanity in Christ will be saved.

How did Adam's commandment breaking (not to eat of the fruit of the tree) make us "sinners," allowing babies to die without actual sin, making us guilty of sin?

sin means to miss the mark, and the mark is God. anything that falls short of that is sin. sin is not just doing wrong in God's eyes. so a baby that dies and is not personally sinful, still needs the Savior.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

According to Orthodoxy how did "death pass upon all men, for that all have sinned?"

we sin because we die. our fear of death is what causes is to sin, which is what causes us to die eternally. Christ came and undid that cycle. now, because of Christ, death can lead to life in Him, if we die to ourselves we can live unto Him, which is eternal.
 
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JM

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we didn't inherit the punishment for Adam's crime. a baby who is born with HIV because his dad slept around is not punished for the disease, but he must live with HIV.

You mean...the HIV was inherited by the baby whose father sinned, like sin was inherited by the children of Adam? That's a good example.

Thank you Matt. Steller!

jm
 
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ArmyMatt

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You mean...the HIV was inherited by the baby whose father sinned, like sin was inherited by the children of Adam? That's a good example.

Eastern definition of sin? yes. Western definition of sin? no.

so death was inherited (like the HIV) because of the father's sin (Adam disobeying, the dad sleeping around). the kid will be guilty if he passes on the HIV to others.

Thank you Matt. Steller!

no problem
 
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