Consensus on the phony books of the Bible?

[Aijalon]

The apostle Paul wrote that "all Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."(2 Tim 3:16, 17) This includes the book of Mark as one of the 27 inspired books of the Christian Greek Scriptures.

Mark (or John Mark, Acts 12:12), wrote the book bearing his name, but he received the information apparently from the apostle Peter. )

\

Mark was not considered inspired scrpture by Paul. This is simply not true. The Scriptures were considered by Paul to be those written by Moses and the Prophets. The Tanakh.

Mark wasn't considered "inspred" until centuries later when it was decided by a council to cannonize certain books. I don't deny that Paul was an apostle, but since he never gave us a list of books that were inspired, we cannot just assume that a book is inspred because WE consider it "scripture" in our "Holy Bible".

For a book to be inspred it would need to be commissioned directly from God, and words provided by God. Only the old testament prophets could do this. Mark was apparently not a prophet.

 

[Canterbury Trail]

Mark wasn't considered "inspred" until centuries later when it was decided by a council to cannonize certain books.

They were canonised because they were held to be inspired not vice versa. I am not sure Paul had access to the Gospel of Mark, though of course he would have access to the oral traditions that lay behind it.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

You can add the book of Daniel to the phony book list. ...

I recently read a book on Daniel, which made the claim, that the fourth beast of Daniel’s visions is Islam; he just missed out the Roman Empire. This is because Rome didn’t trample on the residue of Persia, media, Babylon, which remained as Parthia etc. separate from the Roman Empire. And Rome wasn’t diverse from the rest; well not really, they still had the same sort of gods and government. But what to make of the ten horns of the fourth beast? This is what Wikipedia says:
There is general agreement among modern scholars that the four beasts represent Babylonia, Medes, Persia, and Alexander's Greek empire. The ten horns represent the kings from Alexander on through the Seleucid kingdom:

• Alexander the Great
• Seleucus I Nicator,
• Antiochus I Soter,
• Antiochus II Theos,
• Seleucus II Callinicus,
• Seleucus III Ceraunus,
• Antiochus III the Great,
• Seleucus IV Philopator, (assassinated by the following)
• Heliodorus,
• Seleucus IV’s infant son Antiochus (puppet for Heliodorus).

The last three "horns" had to fall to make way for the "little horn" Antiochus IV Epiphanes and his arrival on the throne, effectively by usurpation. Daniel 7:25 is a reference to the persecutions of Antiochus, his suppression of the Jewish religion, and his attempt to force the Jews to adopt the Greek customs.
It was under Seleucid persecution (167-164 B.C.) that the book of Daniel was probably completed, using stories in its first half known from earlier years. The book's inaccurate description of the end of the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes and his death, and its failure to mention the success of the Maccabean revolt, indicate that the book was finished before 164 B.C. Also, its prophesies of the end of the age in a matter of years (12:6-13) are not fulfilled. But the Jews under persecution were meant to be strengthened by the book's stories and visions, assuring them that God will deliver the faithful. With the coming Messianic age, whatever the time frame, the book of Daniel's ultimate message is: the righteous, though afflicted, through the sovereignty of God will gloriously get out of it.

 

[Soulgazer]

They were canonised because they were held to be inspired not vice versa. I am not sure Paul had access to the Gospel of Mark, though of course he would have access to the oral traditions that lay behind it.

Paul was long dead when "Mark" was starting to be composed.

 

[Soulgazer]

You can add the book of Daniel to the phony book list. ...

I recently read a book on Daniel, which made the claim, that the fourth beast of Daniel’s visions is Islam; he just missed out the Roman Empire. This is because Rome didn’t trample on the residue of Persia, media, Babylon, which remained as Parthia etc. separate from the Roman Empire. And Rome wasn’t diverse from the rest; well not really, they still had the same sort of gods and government. But what to make of the ten horns of the fourth beast? This is what Wikipedia says:
There is general agreement among modern scholars that the four beasts represent Babylonia, Medes, Persia, and Alexander's Greek empire. The ten horns represent the kings from Alexander on through the Seleucid kingdom:

• Alexander the Great
• Seleucus I Nicator,
• Antiochus I Soter,
• Antiochus II Theos,
• Seleucus II Callinicus,
• Seleucus III Ceraunus,
• Antiochus III the Great,
• Seleucus IV Philopator, (assassinated by the following)
• Heliodorus,
• Seleucus IV’s infant son Antiochus (puppet for Heliodorus).

The last three "horns" had to fall to make way for the "little horn" Antiochus IV Epiphanes and his arrival on the throne, effectively by usurpation. Daniel 7:25 is a reference to the persecutions of Antiochus, his suppression of the Jewish religion, and his attempt to force the Jews to adopt the Greek customs.
It was under Seleucid persecution (167-164 B.C.) that the book of Daniel was probably completed, using stories in its first half known from earlier years. The book's inaccurate description of the end of the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes and his death, and its failure to mention the success of the Maccabean revolt, indicate that the book was finished before 164 B.C. Also, its prophesies of the end of the age in a matter of years (12:6-13) are not fulfilled. But the Jews under persecution were meant to be strengthened by the book's stories and visions, assuring them that God will deliver the faithful. With the coming Messianic age, whatever the time frame, the book of Daniel's ultimate message is: the righteous, though afflicted, through the sovereignty of God will gloriously get out of it.

Pretty much all of the Old Testament. Not phony, but with a big HOWEVER.

There is no one alive today, no matter what claims are made, that knows how to read it. Because what you read is a Key to the memorized text; In the Old way, one priest would follow along silently with the written while the separate memorized text was recited; The written is full of idiot traps--- non events, failed prophesy, topsy turvy depictions etc, each a clue to the Oral.

The Jewish faith has been trying to reconstruct the keys since the early middle ages, but it's been lost since 70AD.

 

[WisdomTree]

Man, you will open a can of worms. I studied Christian history under the tutelage of a couple Doctorates; it's best just to find a belief you are comfortable with and let the rest go.

Can of worms indeed.

 

[dollarsbill]

Pretty much all of the Old Testament. Not phony, but with a big HOWEVER.

There is no one alive today, no matter what claims are made, that knows how to read it. Because what you read is a Key to the memorized text; In the Old way, one priest would follow along silently with the written while the separate memorized text was recited; The written is full of idiot traps--- non events, failed prophesy, topsy turvy depictions etc, each a clue to the Oral.

The Jewish faith has been trying to reconstruct the keys since the early middle ages, but it's been lost since 70AD.

Since the NT is based on the OT that doesn't speak well of the NT.

 

[Unix]

I just had a recollection & remembered having read that Scripture passage as a child and believed it - which sums up to that I've had that belief most of my life.

(1) He taught that we are saved entirely by grace and faith, whereas Jesus in the Revelation tells us that in the final judgment we are all judged according to our works.
[...]
Therefore, I have ripped Paul's writings from my Bible.

 

[dollarsbill]

Therefore, I have ripped Paul's writings from my Bible.

Then you need to rip out Luke, Acts, Peter too. That doesn't leave much.

2 Peter 3:14-16 (NASB)
14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

That presents a big problem.

Revelation 22:18-19 (NASB)
18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

There was no "Bible" When Revelation was written so I think it is hard to tell what "book" he is talking about.

 

[dollarsbill]

There was no "Bible" When Revelation was written so I think it is hard to tell what "book" he is talking about.

A very risky assumption.

 

[Azadok2day]

Welcome

Paul claimed the title of "apostle" for himself, without the corroborating accounts of multiple first-hand witnesses, as required by Torah and Messiah (Deu 17:6, 19:5; Num 35:30, Mt 18:16, Jn 8:17, Jn 5:31).

Messiah praised the congregation at Ephesus for rejecting false apostles (Rev 2:2). Ephesus was the capital of the Roman province of Asia. Paul, by his own admission, was rejected by all believers in Asia (2Ti 1:15).

A failed/false prophecy is attributed to Paul (compare Acts 27:10 & 27:44).

Paul brought a message that stated that the Law was done away with (Gal), and that the Law was burdensome. YHWH, Messiah, and the Apostle John believed otherwise (Deu 30:8,10,11; Mt 5:18; 1Jn 5:3). YHWH and Messiah commanded us to test all those who claim to speak for Him, by comparing their message to the Torah/the Law (Deu 13:1-5, Deu 18:20-22, 1Jn 4:1-3, Mt 7:15,20). Those with a message that contradicts Torah was to be rejected (e.g. Isa 8:20). We are warned us that tares and wheat will grow together until the end (Mt 13:24-30, 36-42; Jer 8:8), and that false prophets will come representing Him (Mt 24:5,24). YHWH allows this to test our love for Him (Deu 13:1-5).

There are much, much more on this subject ... those were some highlights

I think it may have been written by Paul, but that really doesn't matter. The message of Hebrew contradicts Torah, and I reject it for that reason alone.

There is absolutely no problem with what you cited in acts 27:10 and the outcome acts 27:44 Paul warned them in 27:10 to heed his advice and told them what would happen if they did not , 27:44 confirms this . Maybe you are reading a newer bible but my KJV is clear on the issue .

OP it is by faith that we believe in Jesus and that being said you must also have faith the God the father who knew the end from the beginning would make sure we the lay people of the body of Christ would have in our hands exactly what God wanted us to have for salvation and understanding what He expects of us.

The 1611 bible is exactly that and what I mean by that is the manuscripts chosen to write that bible . God has also provided us with some outstanding scholars to help us along the way for instance Strong and his concordance , Smith and his bible dictionary EW Bullinger and his works the companion bible , numbers in scripture and others .

This to make sure the most subtle one Lucifer does not decieve you . The depths Satan goes to , to draw us away from God has no limits , this started before this earth age and into the sixth day creation of man thru to the garden of Eden where God created Adam and Eve who all living would come thru being the start of Christs birthline, because one is dead if they are not in Christ. And all the controversy between Satan and God continues to this day at an accelerated pace.

Cursed be the man who puts his faith in man , trust and have faith that God the father gave us the proper bible in 1611, for if it was not I believe he would have had another written in 1612 .