Confusion, confusion, confusion.

[Boltwave]

I'm not sure if anyone took a good look at this website the last time I posted it but you'll find a page on it ( http://www.jesusneverexisted.com ) about these "multiple Jesuses", and apparently they all seem to have certain characteristics that come together to fit the Christ persona, in addition, if modern science contradicts what the foundations of Christianity are, then it is no more than a myth, where does the truth lie?

So how do we really know if we are not just some worthless slime that came from worthless inanimate material? I don't see how evolution fits in the slightest to Christianity, it totally contradicts it, evolution doesn't seem like it needs any sort of intervention, especially with this "random natural selection", so what on earth does this succumb too and why do certain Christians go around picking and choosing just to justify external theories and concepts?

 

[seajoy]

And if you look to your own reason, instead of God Almighty, you will always be confused.

for you, Boltwave.

 

[Macca]

I'm not sure if anyone took a good look at this website the last time I posted it but you'll find a page on it ( http://www.jesusneverexisted.com ) about these "multiple Jesuses", and apparently they all seem to have certain characteristics that come together to fit the Christ persona, in addition, if modern science contradicts what the foundations of Christianity are, then it is no more than a myth, where does the truth lie?

So how do we really know if we are not just some worthless slime that came from worthless inanimate material? I don't see how evolution fits in the slightest to Christianity, it totally contradicts it, evolution doesn't seem like it needs any sort of intervention, especially with this "random natural selection", so what on earth does this succumb too and why do certain Christians go around picking and choosing just to justify external theories and concepts?

Interesting questions, but my personal opinion (from a lot of study) is that Jesus (Saviour) Christ (anointed one of God) did actually existed, and did all the things the Bible says He did; and that He is who He says He is.
Every culture on earth has a religion of some sort, we were designed to worship God.
We did not come from slime we were created in the image of God as the Bible says.
I'm sure there will be many who pooh pooh this, but they did the same to Jesus.

 

[Rafael]

I've pointed this out before, that the devil will always send out false prophets and Messiahs and has always done so. He has tried to prevent the birth of Jesus by having the infants killed, and is the "father of lies" being the "prince of this world". He seeks to destroy and represents all that is opposite of God, as contrast and choice to God's light and love. Is there any wonder that he would not provide many counterfeits to the real truth? No, any enemy who truly hates would do anything to defeat his enemy, and that is what the devil seeks to do.

Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

John 12:31 The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out.

Mt 7:15 ¶ “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves.

Why not read and absorb the word of God in a clean environment that is free from bias. Reading about it from sources already prejudice will only confuse. Read a newr translation and ask God's Spirit of truth to help you understand as you read.
Actually, it is evidence that Jesus is true; that so many false Messiahs have followed, as that is exactly what He Himself said would happen and what the apostles warned of.

Mt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

2Pe 2:1 ¶ But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

 

[ebia]

I'm not sure if anyone took a good look at this website the last time I posted it but you'll find a page on it ( http://www.jesusneverexisted.com )

Sorry, but it doesn't look like a serious site but rather an over-the-top attempt to prove something written by somebody with a serious agenda. About as much intellectual integrity as the extreme "Christian Apologetics" sites and not worth reading.

about these "multiple Jesuses", and apparently they all seem to have certain characteristics that come together to fit the Christ persona, in addition, if modern science contradicts what the foundations of Christianity are, then it is no more than a myth, where does the truth lie?

Modern science is not in conflict with Christianity.

So how do we really know if we are not just some worthless slime that came from worthless inanimate material? I don't see how evolution fits in the slightest to Christianity, it totally contradicts it, evolution doesn't seem like it needs any sort of intervention, especially with this "random natural selection", so what on earth does this succumb too and why do certain Christians go around picking and choosing just to justify external theories and concepts?

This makes no sense, but the majority of Christians don't have a problem with the theory of evolution. God created us, evolution and other scientific theories explain the processes of how he did it. God is in the natural as well as the miraculous; in the normal as well as the exceptional.

Please note that Christianity is founded on faith in Christ, not in a modernist literalist interpretation of Genesis.

 

[Boltwave]

Jesus spoke of the accounts of Genesis and Noah to be literal, he said "in the days of Noah" not in "the days of Cro Magnum and a hominid named Lucy."

 

[United]

Jesus spoke of the accounts of Genesis and Noah to be literal, he said "in the days of Noah" not in "the days of Cro Magnum and a hominid named Lucy."

Hi Boltwave,

There are christians such as myself who take a literal interpretation of Genesis & still accept evolution.

 

[seajoy]

Jesus spoke of the accounts of Genesis and Noah to be literal, he said "in the days of Noah" not in "the days of Cro Magnum and a hominid named Lucy."

Gotta agree with you there. That's why, we too, must take the bible literally.

 

[EmbracingHim]

I'm not sure if anyone took a good look at this website the last time I posted it but you'll find a page on it ( http://www.jesusneverexisted.com ) about these "multiple Jesuses", and apparently they all seem to have certain characteristics that come together to fit the Christ persona, in addition, if modern science contradicts what the foundations of Christianity are, then it is no more than a myth, where does the truth lie?

So how do we really know if we are not just some worthless slime that came from worthless inanimate material? I don't see how evolution fits in the slightest to Christianity, it totally contradicts it, evolution doesn't seem like it needs any sort of intervention, especially with this "random natural selection", so what on earth does this succumb too and why do certain Christians go around picking and choosing just to justify external theories and concepts?

Boltwave,

We don't have to go to this website to know there will be imposters of Christ. The scriptures tell us this and they are created by those that oppose God for the purpose of confusion. God, although is not the author of confusion.

His words can be subjected to scientific scutiny and not proved false. In fact, secular historians prove that Jesus existed and died as stated. Secular scientists prove the flood existed (although they state ice sheets...they admit some areas were water, while others were ice). Science itself fails when offering hypothesis (such as the big bang theory) that can 'not' by any means be proved.

Belief is 'belief' -- but God gave us the Holy Bible and sends us the Holy Spirit so we are not alone. It is our choice to believe or not, because God desire purity of heart and love chosen of our free will (just as we desire this from others who claim to know and love us).

Thus far I have found nothing the secular world has produced to be confusing, but it was not always so. I've grown in the truth over the years and see more and more clearly the ridiculousness of the hypotheses against God and as well as the state of the world today.

God Bless and prayers that all confusion is laid to rest in Christ.

 

[ebia]

Jesus spoke of the accounts of Genesis and Noah to be literal, he said "in the days of Noah" not in "the days of Cro Magnum and a hominid named Lucy."

Sorry, but those sorts of phrases work fine whether you are refering to literal history, or a shared story about your past, or whether (like Jesus) you are living in a pre-modern culture that doesn't distinguish between the two.

You are buying into a modernist-creationist world view that can't distinguish between fact and truth.

 

[Boltwave]

Sorry, but those sorts of phrases work fine whether you are refering to literal history, or a shared story about your past, or whether (like Jesus) you are living in a pre-modern culture that doesn't distinguish between the two.

You are buying into a modernist-creationist world view that can't distinguish between fact and truth.

Interesting, if you don't mind do you care to explain exactly how that works?

 

[ebia]

Interesting, if you don't mind do you care to explain exactly how that works?

I'm struggling to see how it's not self-evident. If I want to use a shared story - one well known to both of us - to illustrate a point it would be perfectly normal for me to refer to it in the same way whether the story is literal history, myth, legend, saga, fiction, or whatever.

I'm not good at inventing examples on the spot, but say I want to use Bilbo's party at the beginning of The Lord of the Rings to illustrate something I might say something like "When Bilbo put his ring in the envelope for Frodo..." Nothing in the text of what I said would indicate that the story to which I'm refering is fictional.

In addition the distinction between myth and 'real' history was still just beginning to emerge in Jesus' time. Ancient people didn't distinguish between the two because for them what mattered was not the factual accurace of their stories but the messages those stories taught. To read Genesis as literal history is to read it as a genre that did not exist at the time it was written.

 

[ArcticFox]

I'm not sure if anyone took a good look at this website the last time I posted it but you'll find a page on it ( http://www.jesusneverexisted.com ) about these "multiple Jesuses", and apparently they all seem to have certain characteristics that come together to fit the Christ persona, in addition, if modern science contradicts what the foundations of Christianity are, then it is no more than a myth, where does the truth lie?

These stories are not problematic for the Christian religion.

Most of them are purposely 'adjusted' to look more Christian; information is purposefully left out, or purposefully presented in a specific way to make it LOOK like a Christ-like character. You can tell that the goal of the website is to prove that Jesus never existed, so they are going to use whatever evidence they have. Part of that process is presenting only the side that makes one's argument look good.

I once heard a VERY powerful argument about a myth that was remarkably similar to the story of Christ. I then pursued the story. It turned out that vital information had been left out, and the information was presented out of order and was slightly skewed so that it would purposefully look more like Christ's story.

I would encourage you to look deeply at the story of Christ and the evidence for it. We cannot prove every argument wrong, especially arguments that don't lend themselves to proof in any way. However, we can present what we know, and from that base our beliefs.

We can't major in all of the counterfeits, but we can deeply study the real thing. It's like finding counterfeit bills. These professionals are not taught about every possible fake that exists, but they are made to study, in-depth, the authentic bill so that they can spot a fake. They are, of course, shown the obvious signs of the most frequently encountered fakes.

In the same way, Christian apologetics focuses mainly on knowing deeply the authentic religion (Christianity), and to know the mistakes of a few of the most common contenders (Islam, Christ-less Judaism, post-modernism, etc).

Because these myths are so small and minor, it's not the best use of time to study them in-depth. However, if you do, you'll find they have a LOT of things very different from the story of Christ.

 

[Calminian]

I'm not sure if anyone took a good look at this website the last time I posted it but you'll find a page on it ( http://www.jesusneverexisted.com ) about these "multiple Jesuses", and apparently they all seem to have certain characteristics that come together to fit the Christ persona, in addition, if modern science contradicts what the foundations of Christianity are, then it is no more than a myth, where does the truth lie?

Hi BW. One thing to keep in mind regarding science, is that Christ was a miracle worker. A miracle could be described as a violation of science. Christians believe that God created an ordered universe that is deterministic and follows patterns that can be observed and predicted. Thus science works! But the God who created the world is not subject or confined to those processes. Thus, if God exists it makes sense He would would be able to do things that are not scientifically explainable. I find this to be evidence for God, not against Him. Just some thoughts to ponder.

 

[Boltwave]

I'm struggling to see how it's not self-evident. If I want to use a shared story - one well known to both of us - to illustrate a point it would be perfectly normal for me to refer to it in the same way whether the story is literal history, myth, legend, saga, fiction, or whatever.

I'm not good at inventing examples on the spot, but say I want to use Bilbo's party at the beginning of The Lord of the Rings to illustrate something I might say something like "When Bilbo put his ring in the envelope for Frodo..." Nothing in the text of what I said would indicate that the story to which I'm refering is fictional.

In addition the distinction between myth and 'real' history was still just beginning to emerge in Jesus' time. Ancient people didn't distinguish between the two because for them what mattered was not the factual accurace of their stories but the messages those stories taught. To read Genesis as literal history is to read it as a genre that did not exist at the time it was written.

Hmmm.....that sounds pretty thoughtful, thanks for the insight.

 

[salida]

Boltware--

I'm a scientist and a christian. True science doesn't contradict the Bible at all. Evolution? What kind are you talking about? True evolution is called microevolution - its when a species adapts to their environment and it can this can be documented continuously. For example, birds beaks can grow if the seeds around them are larger and get smaller if the seeds around them are smaller.

Macroevolution - Is when there is a canine family, cat family, etc. These families can't cross for example a cat can't turn into a dog. Or a fish can't evolve into a cat. Its scientifically impossible.

And the myth that something can come from nothing. Ha, this is scientifically also impossible. Science is mentioned in the Bible. Most secular scientists believe that intellect design is how creation got started. The farce is that public schools are way behind teaching a false evolution that only the liberals like. And its being taught as fact when its not at all unlike intellect design. What about the tax payers and students who are being robbed and should at a minimum get taught intellect design and evolution side by side?

The only Jesus that exists is the Jesus of the Bible. Since Jesus is God and the Bible is the Word of God they can't be separated.

 

[phoenixgw]

1. Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John are four witnesses pointing their fingers at a star (Jesus). When you see the "star," you don't need the fingers anymore. Discover Jesus for yourself, if you dare.

The bible that we read is like the backside of a tapestry. We observe some assemblance of order, but as a whole, it seems disjointed and incomplete. Every once in a while, some of us are privileged enough to see the other side of the tapestry. God the Creator is weaving perfection out of our imperfections.

2. Evolution is actually a collection of theories, not just the one that suggests we somehow mutated into what we are today. Another theory that is bundled with evolution is "natural selection," or survival of the fittest (or the luckiest). When academics is studied alongside faith in the supernatural, people will come up with all sorts of patchwork theories to explain the world that they live. Enquiring minds want to know, & if they don't know, they'll make something up--it's human nature.


I will pray that the light of our creator guides you on your faith journey, friend.