Confused on something: Part II

[Jon0388g]

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown in the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." Revelation 20:10


This text stumps me. As Adventists we believe the Bible does not support eternal-torment in hell, and we take this verse as symbolic.

I can accept our belief from the many texts which support it, but this is the text which seems to be brought up by folk who oppose our view, and rightly so.

When we read Revelation 20, we take the most part to be literal, don't we? The righteous dead raised, judgment handed to them, reigning for one thousand years, the first and second resurrection etc etc. However, when we get down to vs 10, we seem to switch into symbolic mode.

Any thoughts on this?

Jon

 

[tall73]

Yes but I can't discuss it here without a violation

 

[TrustAndObey]

Jon, I am really rusty in the bible right now, which is my own fault, but I do remember doing a study on the word forever and coming to the conclusion that it means "until it is done."

Remember........wait, Tall, is this okay to talk about in here? Or would we be violating the annihilation rule on CF?

I thought you were talking about the violation on letting traditional Adventists answer questions, but I bet you're talking about the annihilation rule huh?

Jon, may I PM you?

 

[tall73]

yes, the annihilation rule.

Incidentally I pmed Jon the item I earlier sent to you.

 

[Jon0388g]

Jon, I am really rusty in the bible right now, which is my own fault, but I do remember doing a study on the word forever and coming to the conclusion that it means "until it is done."

Yup, I know of this too. However, we also add the disclaimer - "forever does mean literal eternity only when applied to God or God-related things." The real issue in this text is why we suddenly switch from a literal understanding to a figurative.

All this bearing in mind that the other texts in the Bible supporting the opposite far outweigh this one, so I'm not too worried

Jon, may I PM you?

Sure! No need to ask!

Jon

 

[TrustAndObey]

Yup, I know of this too. However, we also add the disclaimer - "forever does mean literal eternity only when applied to God or God-related things." The real issue in this text is why we suddenly switch from a literal understanding to a figurative.

All this bearing in mind that the other texts in the Bible supporting the opposite far outweigh this one, so I'm not too worried



Sure! No need to ask!

Jon

Well, forever meaning "until it is done" still applies to Godly things, because we all know they NEVER have an ending.

I think Tall sent you a paper that speaks VOLUMES and what I was going to say really just touches the surface.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hi Tall73,

Could you please explain a rule that would prohibit the gramatic derivation of a biblical pharse? In this case the aninilation rule. The correct understanding of this topic is vital for a correct understanding of the biblical identification of hell and the results of it and the lake of fire as spoken of in Rev.

 

[franny]

Jon, I am really rusty in the bible right now, which is my own fault, but I do remember doing a study on the word forever and coming to the conclusion that it means "until it is done."

Remember........wait, Tall, is this okay to talk about in here? Or would we be violating the annihilation rule on CF?

I thought you were talking about the violation on letting traditional Adventists answer questions, but I bet you're talking about the annihilation rule huh?

Jon, may I PM you?

What is the "annihilation rule"? I am new here. I thought this was a Christian Forum in this section for Seventh-day Adventists. Are we not allowed to discuss our beliefs?

Please tell me I am wrong.

 

[franny]

yes, the annihilation rule.

Incidentally I pmed Jon the item I earlier sent to you.

Did you ever pastor in Texas?

 

[TrustAndObey]

What is the "annihilation rule"? I am new here. I thought this was a Christian Forum in this section for Seventh-day Adventists. Are we not allowed to discuss our beliefs?

Please tell me I am wrong.

Franny, big hugs and welcome to the forum!

Unfortunately you're not wrong. We are not allowed to discuss "annihilation" even in the Adventist subforum. However, Tall has gotten some moderators to agree to hear us out, and we're trying to get that rule changed.

See his "Your Input Needed" thread for the link to that page so you can jump into the discussion!

And again, WELCOME!

 

[Sophia7]

Discussion of annihilationism is currently prohibited in all areas of CF (including our own congregational forum) except for Unorthodox Theology and Liberal Theology, according to Rule 3.5:

3.5 Controversial Topics to Be Discussed Only in Certain Forums

A. You will not post content regarding the following subjects anywhere on CF except in Ethics & Morality, Liberal Theology, Christian Philosophy, or any subforums in the Congregation or Recovery* categories:

drug use
gambling
polygamy
extramarital or premarital sexual activity
homosexuality
transsexuality
abortion

*You will not make posts promoting or endorsing any of these subjects in Recovery forums.

B. Controversial doctrines listed below must be discussed in the Unorthodox Theological Doctrines or Liberal Theology forums only:

Full Preterism
Open Theism
Universalism or Universal Salvation
Annihilationism
Freemasonry

Moderators, senior mods, supervisors, etc., have no authority to change the rules. That has to be done by the executive committee, which is made up of the staff members in the following positions:

Executive Committee (Directors)

A Pastoral/Ministerial team consisting of Ordained Ministers from different churches and denominations who provide spiritual oversight, covering and leadership for Christian Forums. Since October 2006 the CEO and webmaster has handed over the authority and responsibility of the day-to-day executive management of Christian Forums to the Executive Committee. The Executive Committee will be responsible and have authority to draft/modify Christian Forums rules and policies and manage all Christian Forums staff.

• Operations Director
• Ecumenical Director and Site Chaplain
• Catholic Affairs Director
• Protestant Affairs Director
• Orthodox Affairs Director

They are currently considering revising the policy, and my husband (while he was on staff) and I have spent a lot of time in staff discussions arguing in favor of a change. Now he is advocating for it in the Discuss Rules forum.