Confused Now About Tithing

[PollyAnna]

After reading a few posts on the forums on this site I decided to come in this forum to ask believers with the same faith as mine.

I have grown up in the Charismatic/WOF churches and continue to follow this faith.

One thing I have NEVER heard before coming here is that tithing is an OT law that we are not required to fulfill today. I do not understand this and do not see how this is true. Can someone fill me in here? Is this really the new belief or is it still believed in the charismatic realm that we are commanded to tithe?

What about the NT scriptures such as Luke 11:42 and Matt 23:23? Arent' those saying we are still to tithe?

 

[AlabamaMan]

Most charismatic churches I have been to, ask that you pay tithes. I am sure there may be some out there that don't.

 

[Bevlina]

No, the churches don't like people to know the fact that tithing belongs to the Old Testament law of religion where the Jews paid tithes in food - not money. I don't know when this was changed to money, but, it was. And, it is not Biblical. We are to give of ourselves to one another and to give to the poor. Jesus freed us from religion. Just read your Bible, using the Concordance and try to find where we, the Gentiles are asked to pay tithes, in money, to any church.
Remember, we are not Jews. If I see a need, I do the deed whether it be money, or of myself in person. I refuse to be tied to a few words in Malachi which churches have twisted to be used today. Read ALL of the words in Malachi. Note that God stated to bring the tithes into the storehouse. Mal3:8-12. Note that it states "so that there will be FOOD for my people" Tithing was done in food.
Today, many churches say this food is the Word of God. No. Jesus is the Word of God and the Holy Spirit now leads us as we are not under Jewish law. As Gentiles, we were never under ANY law! It was only the Jews who were under the law.
Under the Law of Grace, the Gentiles have been accepted as children of God. And, christianity began.
We, the gentiles are not obligated to tithe to anybody. Remember, WE were never under any law .
Take care lest any man decieves you Pollyanna.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Mark 12:41-44 ~And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even of all her living. She gave all that she had because she wanted a blessing from God money wise.

Luke 6:38 ~ Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete, (give) withal it shall be measured to you again.

Acts. 10:1-4 ~ There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms, (money) to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms, (money) are come up for a memorial before God.


We do not deal in "food" anymore, we use money. None of us can give a 10th of our crops, as most of us aren't farmers. Food doesn't build churches and Christian orphanages, food doesn't buy medical equipment, support missionaries, although you can send them food, but it doesn't support them monitarily being in foreign lands. Food doesn't pay for air time for ministries on tv, buy bibles for poor countries etc. Money is very important to God. If you have it, you better let go of it to support the work of God.
Malachi says that you are cursed with a curse if you don't tithe and give offerings..Mal.4:9 .

 

[Bevlina]

I agree. We give money to the poor Acts 10: 1-4. Paul carried money to give to those in need. But it doesn't state these were tithes.
You see Cornelius was a gentile?
I give wholeheartedly, but tithing was a Jewish law and I am like Cornelius. I am a Gentile. So, I give what I can afford to the poor.
The widow was obviously Jewish.
The curse was for the Jews. Not the Gentiles. We were never under any law to receive such a curse.

 

[PollyAnna]

Thank you for your responses to this. I am really thrown for a loop here (not hard to do with me). LOL

I don't see anywhere in these scriptures that God says these are "jewish" people.

Acts. 10:1-4 ~ There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

So is God saying this man is Italian?

One more question. The argument seems to be that we aren't bound to OT law, does this also mean we aren't bound by the 10 commandments since God gave those in the OT? If you throw out 1 law b/c it's in the OT don't we have to then throw out ALL the laws?

Thank you again for trying to help me wrap my mind around all of this.

I definitely agree with you By His Grace that we need to give money not food.

Mark 12:41-44 ~And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even of all her living. She gave all that she had because she wanted a blessing from God money wise.

Luke 6:38 ~ Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete, (give) withal it shall be measured to you again.

Acts. 10:1-4 ~ There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms, (money) to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms, (money) are come up for a memorial before God.


We do not deal in "food" anymore, we use money. None of us can give a 10th of our crops, as most of us aren't farmers. Food doesn't build churches and Christian orphanages, food doesn't buy medical equipment, support missionaries, although you can send them food, but it doesn't support them monitarily being in foreign lands. Food doesn't pay for air time for ministries on tv, buy bibles for poor countries etc. Money is very important to God. If you have it, you better let go of it to support the work of God.
Malachi says that you are cursed with a curse if you don't tithe and give offerings..Mal.4:9 .

 

[waas_MI]

Folks
I heard what you say. Let me clear this mess.

1. Some people like to get away from TITHING by saying that we are not under the law but saved by Grace. ---To the most part we are not under the law. But jesus said ( In Matthew 5:17 ) that he didn't come to abolish the law. This means the law is still valid. Well then you have no excuse. If you want a blessing in return TITHE.
If you are giving less than 10% of your income ask God to show you
how much should be given to the church.

2. Some people like to get away from TITHING saying that it belongs to the
old testement. Come on! There is no church that reads only the new testament and disagree with the old.

3. The real definition of TITHING comes in MALACH 3:10. This means you must give 10% of your income ( any money that comes to you. This includes the paycheck, money from a yard sale, money by selling your home, car...etc )

4. The TITHE must be given to the church or place of worship that you attend every Sunday. You should not give your tithe to your bestfriend
who needs money to buy a car. That can be dealt in a separate way.

5. I hope this explains.The best way for you to settle this is by asking God how much he wants us to give him ? He will direct you to the answer.

 

[Bevlina]

When were the Gentiles under the Law of Moses?

 

[look]

I agree with the Wof view point on tithing.

In my experience, whenever I stopped tithing, I would lose my job within a few months!
After being without work for awhile, I would ask God to forgive me for stealing His tithe and I would tithe 10% of what I usually make and within a week, someone would call me to work, offering me the same or more than my last payrate...

I learned from that example that if I didn't want to lose my job (curse!!!), I need to give God His tithe. Or go to the poor house. In my case, there is no other option...Can't argue with that...

 

[Bevlina]

You didn't answer my question. When were the Gentiles under the Law of the O.T.? I am willing to learn about it!

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

I agree. We give money to the poor Acts 10: 1-4. Paul carried money to give to those in need. But it doesn't state these were tithes.
You see Cornelius was a gentile?
I give wholeheartedly, but tithing was a Jewish law and I am like Cornelius. I am a Gentile. So, I give what I can afford to the poor.
The widow was obviously Jewish.
The curse was for the Jews. Not the Gentiles. We were never under any law to receive such a curse.

Hi Bevlina. We as Gentiles have been grafted into the Jewish tree. We are the Spiritual house of Israel. What goes for them as far as tithing, goes for us. The book of Malachi is for us now as far as tithing goes. The bible as a whole is for all of us, except we do not live under the old Jewish laws in the OT, because Jesus fullfilled all of the laws on the cross. In this light, since Jesus fullfilled all of the old laws on the cross, including tithing, do you think that it is a good idea to give money to help support the gospel? BHG.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

You didn't answer my question. When were the Gentiles under the Law of the O.T.? I am willing to learn about it!

The Gentiles weren't under the law, but when Jesus died and fullfilled the law, we accepted Him, we became grafted in to the Jewish tree, and so it stands to reason that we do what was commanded of the Jews, and that was to tithe. God is no respector of persons. He expected the Jews to tithe, so it is the same with us
Read the parable of the sower in the bible.... Matt. 13:24-30. It has to be good ground that your money goes into, otherwise the weeds, (devil) will choke it out.

 

[Trish1947]

I really dont pay much attention to what the laws were in the OT. But Jesus was pretty plain about it, and that's enough for me to pay attention to it. Jesus didn't say how much though, and as I read the O.T., the Jews at the time we're pretty wrapped up in titheing right down to the last mite. They went over board and we're more concerned about how much, and wheather a money gift to their parents was considered a tithe or not. Interpreting and negating Gods intent of the law to give cheerfully and freely. Dont try to dissect the meaning of the how much or whats acceptable. Paul said as the Lord has prospered you, so let him give, and what he has proposed in his heart let him so give. The Lord loves a cheerful giver. But, make sure your willing to be cheerful about it. Not begrudeingly. Now I'm not saying that eventually you might not have enough faith to give a tenth of what you have, but that, like any thing else with your walk with the Lord comes as he has prospered you, in your faith and increase. You have to start somewhere, how about what you propose in your heart? That is totally acceptable to God, but like the Lord said, hold true to the weighter matters of the law, like mercy, faith, love, without letting the other (giving) undone.

 

[Georgius]

Those are some EXCELLENT points Trish! I think that remembering we are called to be cheerful givers is very important.

Really, from what I have learned in studying the Word, the reason for tithing the first tenth of what you receive is to protect against attacks. So financial blessing doesn't occur until we are sowing seed beyond that initial tithe. Personally my goal is to someday be at the point where I can give 90% and live off the 10%! I believe my God is a God of blessing and has prepared for me things greater than I can possibly imagine and dream for myself, so I am pretty excited.

However, as a successful businessman already, I can say that things were much harder and there is a definite uphill battle to increase my income before I began tithing. In fact, I was forced to begin erroding my moral stands to do it! It was only after I began tithing that doors started opening and my household became peaceful to the point where I was being blessed without having to live outside God's Word to do it. This is just my personal experience.

However, I want to bring to the Light another piece of Scripture that hasn't been talked about yet. Luke 16:9-13

9***And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
10***He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11***If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12***And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13***No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

For me, this was VERY clear, I think it is rather obvious that everything I have is NOT mine at all really but God's. I am very grateful and thankful for everything he gives me (this is one of the reasons we say 'grace' before eating meals btw, which again is not something specifically commanded by Jesus). You see, Jesus did not cover every single letter of law (like how much to give to the Church for spreading the Word) because he was trying to get across the ATTITUDE that we need to have. He came fulfilling the Law which was NOT abolished. Rather, he expanded upon what we knew of it previously (the whole concept of adultery and the such being committed in the heart as well is in reality etc.).

So lets look at this section real quick shall we? It follows the parable of the unjust steward. The key verse for me is verse 10. Here God says that if we are faitful in how we deal with unrighteous mammon (mammon may be read money btw) THEN we will surely be faithful in things that are important indeed! You see, the dealings with money aren't really important to God because do NOT worry God has plenty of money However, it is rather just the SMALLEST way you can show your Faith. By being willing to give cheerfully 10% or more of your income you are showing Faith that God is your source and that no earthly matter supplies you with the things you need. Acting in Faith is always good because first off you will be blessed with more Faith by the Grace of God for doing so that you may do greater things in Faith.

Finally, sitting around worrying about paying your bills (and saying things like 'I can't afford such and such') is not how we are called to believe God takes care of us. Check out Phillipians 4 for more information on how we are to "be careful for nothing"

What better way to spend your money (granted by God) than to spread his Word so others might be as blessed as you? Seriously. If you KNEW God was going to pay your bills next month what would you do on Sunday when the collection bucket came around? Believe, expect and walk in Faith brothers and sisters. God bless you all.

 

[themuzicman]

Tithing originated with Abraham, not the Mosaic law. Melchezedek was a royal high priest of God, to whom Abraham paid the first tithe.

Jesus, in turn, is a priest in the order of Melchezedek, as we see in Hebrews, and tithes are even mentioned as being first paid to Melchezedek, there.

Thus, tithes are a part of the priestly order of Melchezedek and Christ.

Michael

 

[Trish1947]

Those are some EXCELLENT points Trish! I think that remembering we are called to be cheerful givers is very important.

Really, from what I have learned in studying the Word, the reason for tithing the first tenth of what you receive is to protect against attacks. So financial blessing doesn't occur until we are sowing seed beyond that initial tithe. Personally my goal is to someday be at the point where I can give 90% and live off the 10%! I believe my God is a God of blessing and has prepared for me things greater than I can possibly imagine and dream for myself, so I am pretty excited.

However, as a successful businessman already, I can say that things were much harder and there is a definite uphill battle to increase my income before I began tithing. In fact, I was forced to begin erroding my moral stands to do it! It was only after I began tithing that doors started opening and my household became peaceful to the point where I was being blessed without having to live outside God's Word to do it. This is just my personal experience.

However, I want to bring to the Light another piece of Scripture that hasn't been talked about yet. Luke 16:9-13

9***And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
10***He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11***If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12***And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13***No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

For me, this was VERY clear, I think it is rather obvious that everything I have is NOT mine at all really but God's. I am very grateful and thankful for everything he gives me (this is one of the reasons we say 'grace' before eating meals btw, which again is not something specifically commanded by Jesus). You see, Jesus did not cover every single letter of law (like how much to give to the Church for spreading the Word) because he was trying to get across the ATTITUDE that we need to have. He came fulfilling the Law which was NOT abolished. Rather, he expanded upon what we knew of it previously (the whole concept of adultery and the such being committed in the heart as well is in reality etc.).

So lets look at this section real quick shall we? It follows the parable of the unjust steward. The key verse for me is verse 10. Here God says that if we are faitful in how we deal with unrighteous mammon (mammon may be read money btw) THEN we will surely be faithful in things that are important indeed! You see, the dealings with money aren't really important to God because do NOT worry God has plenty of money However, it is rather just the SMALLEST way you can show your Faith. By being willing to give cheerfully 10% or more of your income you are showing Faith that God is your source and that no earthly matter supplies you with the things you need. Acting in Faith is always good because first off you will be blessed with more Faith by the Grace of God for doing so that you may do greater things in Faith.

Finally, sitting around worrying about paying your bills (and saying things like 'I can't afford such and such') is not how we are called to believe God takes care of us. Check out Phillipians 4 for more information on how we are to "be careful for nothing"

What better way to spend your money (granted by God) than to spread his Word so others might be as blessed as you? Seriously. If you KNEW God was going to pay your bills next month what would you do on Sunday when the collection bucket came around? Believe, expect and walk in Faith brothers and sisters. God bless you all.

I agree with you totally, I'm telling you, when I dont give it takes no time at all for me to get in big financial trouble. I can leterally see it all going down hill one thing after another. I know who my supplier is... After many years of learning this lesson again and again, it finally dawned on me.. The Lord is serious about giving. I would love to tithe my husbands whole salary, But I cant get away with that, without receiving alot of problems in my life over it. So I did the next best thing, I figured half the salary was mine, so I give the half of mine, to keep peace.

 

[Bevlina]

The Gentiles weren't under the law, but when Jesus died and fullfilled the law, we accepted Him, we became grafted in to the Jewish tree, and so it stands to reason that we do what was commanded of the Jews, and that was to tithe. God is no respector of persons. He expected the Jews to tithe, so it is the same with us
Read the parable of the sower in the bible.... Matt. 13:24-30. It has to be good ground that your money goes into, otherwise the weeds, (devil) will choke it out.

Thankyou His Grace,
I have read the parable of the sower, but I can't connect that with tithing. Not when Paul chided Peter for acting like a gentile when he was a Jew as in Acts.
You must forgive me. I have been a christian for a long time, but, I have never had any man teach me. I was a catholic & left the church when I was 15-16 years old & have been on my own with the Bible ever since.
I don't wish to sound impertinent and I am certainly not attempting to provoke.
It's just that Jesus gave us Paul as our apostle and I have searched and searched through the tithing. Nowhere can I find that the gentiles are told to tithe 10%. The Jews are, but not us.
I send money to people who are helping those in 3rd world countries, and I certainly help any person who lives near me. But, I also can't see where Paul had churches built. The Body of Christ is the Church.
Also, I note that Paul wasn't a rich man. He gave the money he had been entrusted with to those in need within the christian community for which it was intended.
People seemed to meet in homes or wherever. When one studies original christianity it's a different world to the christianity we know of today.
If I gave my 10% of money to a church today, I know that church has people who take care of the debit & credit. And, the profit of many is staggering.
The mormons demand their 10%. That church is very rich.
I don't think the catholics demand the 10% anymore. But, that's a very rich church too.
There is alot of money to be made in religion. And, churches are tax exempt I believe.
But, getting away from that, it's best to study what our own apostle has to say about things. Paul. He was entrusted with the gentiles by our Saviour.
And he was originally a pharisee! (what a turnabout!!) I can't read where he gave the 10% to Peter who was the apostle to the Jews.
Nor did he give 10% to James that I can find.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Thankyou His Grace,
I have read the parable of the sower, but I can't connect that with tithing. Not when Paul chided Peter for acting like a gentile when he was a Jew as in Acts.
You must forgive me. I have been a christian for a long time, but, I have never had any man teach me. I was a catholic & left the church when I was 15-16 years old & have been on my own with the Bible ever since.
I don't wish to sound impertinent and I am certainly not attempting to provoke.
It's just that Jesus gave us Paul as our apostle and I have searched and searched through the tithing. Nowhere can I find that the gentiles are told to tithe 10%. The Jews are, but not us.
I send money to people who are helping those in 3rd world countries, and I certainly help any person who lives near me. But, I also can't see where Paul had churches built. The Body of Christ is the Church.
Also, I note that Paul wasn't a rich man. He gave the money he had been entrusted with to those in need within the christian community for which it was intended.
People seemed to meet in homes or wherever. When one studies original christianity it's a different world to the christianity we know of today.
If I gave my 10% of money to a church today, I know that church has people who take care of the debit & credit. And, the profit of many is staggering.
The mormons demand their 10%. That church is very rich.
I don't think the catholics demand the 10% anymore. But, that's a very rich church too.
There is alot of money to be made in religion. And, churches are tax exempt I believe.
But, getting away from that, it's best to study what our own apostle has to say about things. Paul. He was entrusted with the gentiles by our Saviour.
And he was originally a pharisee! (what a turnabout!!) I can't read where he gave the 10% to Peter who was the apostle to the Jews.
Nor did he give 10% to James that I can find.

Also, I note that Paul wasn't a rich man. He gave the money he had been entrusted with to those in need within the christian community for which it was intended.

Have to disagree with you here Bevlina. Paul had been rich and poor....Phillipians 4:12 I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. "Abound" means quite well off. Paul wasn't poor in all instances.

I send money to people who are helping those in 3rd world countries, and I certainly help any person who lives near me.

If these places that you give to are Christian based organizations, then you are doing what is cammanded. The bible also says to love thy neigbor as thyself, so if you are helping them financially, that is good. It is commanded to give. When God says, Give, and it shall be given unto you, that is not a request, but a command. Otherwise, He would have said, "if you give". The way that I look at it, since God gave me His Son, the least I can do is give financially to His work, and not the worlds. The world organizations are going to perish. We are in a kingdom with no end.
Unless you are wealthy, and have no need of Gods blessings financially, then God Bless you, although He is the one that is keeping you from starving. Some of us depend on God for our needs financially, and appreciate those added blessings for our giving.

But, getting away from that, it's best to study what our own apostle has to say about things. Paul.

He said this: 2nd Cor. 9:6-7 ~ 6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him GIVE; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

 

[PollyAnna]

Thank you to everyone who participated in this thread. I am seeing just how controversial this topic is throughout the site and I appreciate your willingness to step forward and speak out your beliefs (and most importantly WHY).

I once again have peace in my heart about tithing. And one thing this has done for me is caused me to "study" the bible on this topic. I'm not good at the studying and tend to just read the bible, rather than study it. I am learning so much through this so it has been a growing experience for me. And I am certain this can be a helpful discussion for others seeking information on this topic.

Thank you again, your insights have been eye-opening.

 

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