Confronting the Proof-Texting of John 20:22

[Hermeneutico]

John 20:22 as a proof text for conversion indwelling is hermeneutically weak:

Here is what the text clearly states...

1. Jesus breathed on His disciples.

2. Jesus told them to receive the Holy Spirit.

That is it!!

This passage does not specify the following:

1. Whether or not the disciples received the Holy Spirit at the time Jesus breathed on them.

2. Whether or not they spoke in tongues at that time, if they did receive the Holy Spirit.

So, we need to look at evidence outside of this text to determine what happened here.

Problems:

1. He immediately included the phrase, "as my Father hath sent me, so send I you," before he breathed on them. Why don't we see the disciples leaving to go and do the work? Luke, the parallel passage answers this question: He is breathing as a symbolic act of prophecy referring to the Day of Pentecost:
"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem. until ye be endued with power from on high" (Luke 24:49)

Making John 20:22 contradict the parallel passage in Luke is hermeneutically unsound.

2. According to Vincent's Word Studies, the fact that there is a missing article in front of "Holy Spirit" in the Greek points to this "breathing time" to the Day of Pentecost:

"The article is wanting. the gift bestowed was not that of the personal Holy Spirit, but rather an earnest of that gift... (Vincent's Word Studies, John 20:22)."

3. If the disciples received the Spirit at this moment, then Thomas never received it. Thomas was not there:

"But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came (verse 24)."

4. The Holy Spirit is only to come one time, not two:

"When the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me (John 15:26)."

5. The timing of the above promise that Jesus was to receive from the Father is clearly stated:

"Therefore, being by the right hand of god exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear (Acts 2:33)."

In other words, there was no "secret" coming of the Holy Spirit. There was only one coming, and it took place on the Day of Pentecost.

5. Jesus had to be glorified first, which includes full ascension:

"If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water (But his spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given: BECAUSE that Jesus was not yet glorified)(John 7:37-39)."

When does this take place? When one enters into glory (Luke 24:26), one is glorified (1 Timothy 3:16). Peter further clarifies the timing of the glorification in Acts 3:13, which is post ascension.

The consistent interpretation of John 20:22 is that Jesus' words and actions did not impart the Holy Spirit but were prophetic and symbolic actions in anticipation of the Day of Pentecost (which Jesus and the Gospel writers consistently taught throughout ALL the Gospels). Nowhere does Jesus nor the Gospel writers teach TWO comings of the Holy Spirit. The Gift of the Holy Spirit is THE GIFT OF THE SPIRIT HIMSELF, which is the INDWELLING.

When does this take place in clear Scripture? This gives us the timing.

"So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed." (John 17:1–6)

On the road to Emmaus, the Lord said, "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory? (Luke 24:26). Thus, after Jesus is raised from the dead, he has not yet entered into his glory in his post-resurrection body.

If it is argued that this, his body is glorious because it has been raised from the dead. We are reminded of John 1:14, of which the apostles testify, "we beheld his glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

This text speaks of his earthly ministry. However, it is doubtful that it has any reference to his physical outward appearance. His political and social rank was inglorious, despised, and the cause of rejection.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

1. Whether or not the disciples received the Holy Spirit at the time Jesus breathed on them.
2. Whether or not they spoke in tongues at that time, if they did receive the Holy Spirit.

My understanding:
1. I do not see a problem with Jesus Christ of Nazareth making His Home in the Apostles, the indwelling of His Spirit before his ascension. In the beginning God breathed into Adam the breath of life, this included His Spirit dwelling in him. The fall caused His Spirit to depart. Now Jesus Christ of Nazareth is giving His Spirit back. It is not too impossible for Him to impart His Spirit by the same breath on His Apostles prior to the day of Pentecost. One can be considered an intimate regeneration and the other( day of Pentecost ) can be the corporate. Both came in the form of " moving air" wind and breath , no difference.
2. The issue seems to be tongues. I understand this would be a stumbling block for Pentecostals as it is seen as proof. Tongues is a gift. Regeneration is the proof of conversion and we can see that through the fruits of His Holy Spirit. Additionally, it is certainly possible that they did speak in tongues but it was not recorded or consider this , they did not because all present were believers. Blessings.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

 

[Hermeneutico]

I do not see a problem with Jesus Christ of Nazareth making His Home in the Apostles, the indwelling of His Spirit before his ascension. In the beginning God breathed into Adam the breath of life, this included His Spirit dwelling in him. The fall caused His Spirit to depart. Now Jesus Christ of Nazareth is giving His Spirit back. It is not too impossible for Him to impart His Spirit by the same breath on His Apostles prior to the day of Pentecost. One can be considered an intimate regeneration and the other( day of Pentecost ) can be the corporate. Both came in the form of " moving air" wind and breath , no difference.

In theory, there is no problem; however, if one says that this is the time the Apostles (and not all of them -Thomas was not there) were indwelt with the Holy Spirit, that view inserts something into the text that does not exist. This methodology has created a myriad of false doctrines in many areas of theology. In this case, it creates a contradiction with many clear passages in the Gospels, Acts, and Epistles and adds to Scripture an idea that the entire context does not teach either. To me, that is not acceptable.

The issue seems to be tongues. I understand this would be a stumbling block for Pentecostals as it is seen as proof. Tongues is a gift.

Scripture indeed affirms that there is a specific gift of speaking in tongues. Scripture affirms that there is a specific gift of faith. Yet, Scripture also affirms that there is faith apart from the gift of faith, and there is speaking in tongues apart from the GIFT of speaking in tongues. Those that do not acknowledge that fact fail to acknowledge distinctions, nor do they understand the difference in linguistic usages of polysemy vs. monosemy.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

In theory, there is no problem; however, if one says that this is the time the Apostles (and not even all of them. Thomas was not there) were indwelt with the Holy Spirit, that is inserting something into the text that does not exist. This methodology has created a myriad of false doctrines. In this case, it creates a contradiction with many clear passages and adds to Scripture and the idea that the entire context does not teach. To me, that is not acceptable.



Scripture indeed affirms that there is a specific gift of speaking in tongues. Scripture affirms that there is a specific gift of faith. Yet, Scripture also affirms that there is faith apart from the gift of faith, and there is speaking in tongues apart from the GIFT of speaking in tongues. Those that do not acknowledge that fact fail to acknowledge distinctions, nor do they understand the difference in linguistic usages of polysemy vs. monosemy.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[retired firefighter]

John 20:22 as a proof text for conversion indwelling is hermeneutically weak:

Here is what the text clearly states...

1. Jesus breathed on His disciples.

2. Jesus told them to receive the Holy Spirit.

That is it!!

This passage does not specify the following:

1. Whether or not the disciples received the Holy Spirit at the time Jesus breathed on them.

2. Whether or not they spoke in tongues at that time, if they did receive the Holy Spirit.

So, we need to look at evidence outside of this text to determine what happened here.

Problems:

1. He immediately included the phrase, "as my Father hath sent me, so send I you," before he breathed on them. Why don't we see the disciples leaving to go and do the work? Luke, the parallel passage answers this question: He is breathing as a symbolic act of prophecy referring to the Day of Pentecost:
"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem. until ye be endued with power from on high" (Luke 24:49)

Making John 20:22 contradict the parallel passage in Luke is hermeneutically unsound.

2. According to Vincent's Word Studies, the fact that there is a missing article in front of "Holy Spirit" in the Greek points to this "breathing time" to the Day of Pentecost:

"The article is wanting. the gift bestowed was not that of the personal Holy Spirit, but rather an earnest of that gift... (Vincent's Word Studies, John 20:22)."

3. If the disciples received the Spirit at this moment, then Thomas never received it. Thomas was not there:

"But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came (verse 24)."

4. The Holy Spirit is only to come one time, not two:

"When the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me (John 15:26)."

5. The timing of the above promise that Jesus was to receive from the Father is clearly stated:

"Therefore, being by the right hand of god exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear (Acts 2:33)."

In other words, there was no "secret" coming of the Holy Spirit. There was only one coming, and it took place on the Day of Pentecost.

5. Jesus had to be glorified first, which includes full ascension:

"If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water (But his spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given: BECAUSE that Jesus was not yet glorified)(John 7:37-39)."

When does this take place? When one enters into glory (Luke 24:26), one is glorified (1 Timothy 3:16). Peter further clarifies the timing of the glorification in Acts 3:13, which is post ascension.

The consistent interpretation of John 20:22 is that Jesus' words and actions did not impart the Holy Spirit but were prophetic and symbolic actions in anticipation of the Day of Pentecost (which Jesus and the Gospel writers consistently taught throughout ALL the Gospels). Nowhere does Jesus nor the Gospel writers teach TWO comings of the Holy Spirit. The Gift of the Holy Spirit is THE GIFT OF THE SPIRIT HIMSELF, which is the INDWELLING.

When does this take place in clear Scripture? This gives us the timing.

"So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed." (John 17:1–6)

On the road to Emmaus, the Lord said, "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory? (Luke 24:26). Thus, after Jesus is raised from the dead, he has not yet entered into his glory in his post-resurrection body.

If it is argued that this, his body is glorious because it has been raised from the dead. We are reminded of John 1:14, of which the apostles testify, "we beheld his glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

This text speaks of his earthly ministry. However, it is doubtful that it has any reference to his physical outward appearance. His political and social rank was inglorious, despised, and the cause of rejection.

did it come that easy for you ?

 

[Hermeneutico]

did it come that easy for you ?

Sticking to the text, Jesus's breathing has nothing to do with conversion. When this text is compared with its parallel reading in Luke, it is obvious that Jesus was Prophetically Breathing in view of the Day of Pentecost.

 

[Mr. M]

John 20:22 as a proof text for conversion indwelling is hermeneutically weak:

Here is what the text clearly states...

1. Jesus breathed on His disciples.

2. Jesus told them to receive the Holy Spirit.

That is it!!

This passage does not specify the following:

1. Whether or not the disciples received the Holy Spirit at the time Jesus breathed on them.

2. Whether or not they spoke in tongues at that time, if they did receive the Holy Spirit.

So, we need to look at evidence outside of this text to determine what happened here.

Problems:

1. He immediately included the phrase, "as my Father hath sent me, so send I you," before he breathed on them. Why don't we see the disciples leaving to go and do the work? Luke, the parallel passage answers this question: He is breathing as a symbolic act of prophecy referring to the Day of Pentecost:
"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem. until ye be endued with power from on high" (Luke 24:49)

Making John 20:22 contradict the parallel passage in Luke is hermeneutically unsound.

2. According to Vincent's Word Studies, the fact that there is a missing article in front of "Holy Spirit" in the Greek points to this "breathing time" to the Day of Pentecost:

"The article is wanting. the gift bestowed was not that of the personal Holy Spirit, but rather an earnest of that gift... (Vincent's Word Studies, John 20:22)."

3. If the disciples received the Spirit at this moment, then Thomas never received it. Thomas was not there:

"But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came (verse 24)."

4. The Holy Spirit is only to come one time, not two:

"When the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me (John 15:26)."

5. The timing of the above promise that Jesus was to receive from the Father is clearly stated:

"Therefore, being by the right hand of god exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear (Acts 2:33)."

In other words, there was no "secret" coming of the Holy Spirit. There was only one coming, and it took place on the Day of Pentecost.

5. Jesus had to be glorified first, which includes full ascension:

"If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water (But his spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given: BECAUSE that Jesus was not yet glorified)(John 7:37-39)."

When does this take place? When one enters into glory (Luke 24:26), one is glorified (1 Timothy 3:16). Peter further clarifies the timing of the glorification in Acts 3:13, which is post ascension.

The consistent interpretation of John 20:22 is that Jesus' words and actions did not impart the Holy Spirit but were prophetic and symbolic actions in anticipation of the Day of Pentecost (which Jesus and the Gospel writers consistently taught throughout ALL the Gospels). Nowhere does Jesus nor the Gospel writers teach TWO comings of the Holy Spirit. The Gift of the Holy Spirit is THE GIFT OF THE SPIRIT HIMSELF, which is the INDWELLING.

When does this take place in clear Scripture? This gives us the timing.

"So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed." (John 17:1–6)

On the road to Emmaus, the Lord said, "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory? (Luke 24:26). Thus, after Jesus is raised from the dead, he has not yet entered into his glory in his post-resurrection body.

If it is argued that this, his body is glorious because it has been raised from the dead. We are reminded of John 1:14, of which the apostles testify, "we beheld his glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

This text speaks of his earthly ministry. However, it is doubtful that it has any reference to his physical outward appearance. His political and social rank was inglorious, despised, and the cause of rejection.

They were being restored, for they surely had quenched the Spirit in their lives.
Mark 14:50 Then they all forsook Him and fled.

They were no longer bound together in love, but in fear, and hardness of heart.
Mark 16:14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief
and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

John 20:19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut
where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews,
Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

 

[Blade]

"Whether or not the disciples received the Holy Spirit at the time Jesus breathed on them."

Amen. We forget that Christ said He has to go or else the sweet sweet holy Spirit will not come. Christ prayed to the Father for what promise? Did not Christ aka God tell us in Luke 11 13 to ask Him and He will give the holy spirit to them that ask?

 

[Hermeneutico]

"Whether or not the disciples received the Holy Spirit at the time Jesus breathed on them."

Amen. We forget that Christ said He has to go or else the sweet sweet holy Spirit will not come. Christ prayed to the Father for what promise? Did not Christ aka God tell us in Luke 11 13 to ask Him and He will give the holy spirit to them that ask?

Yes indeed.

 

[Dan Perez]

John 20:22 as a proof text for conversion indwelling is hermeneutically weak:

Here is what the text clearly states...

1. Jesus breathed on His disciples.

2. Jesus told them to receive the Holy Spirit.

That is it!!

This passage does not specify the following:

1. Whether or not the disciples received the Holy Spirit at the time Jesus breathed on them.

2. Whether or not they spoke in tongues at that time, if they did receive the Holy Spirit.

So, we need to look at evidence outside of this text to determine what happened here.

Problems:

1. He immediately included the phrase, "as my Father hath sent me, so send I you," before he breathed on them. Why don't we see the disciples leaving to go and do the work? Luke, the parallel passage answers this question: He is breathing as a symbolic act of prophecy referring to the Day of Pentecost:
"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem. until ye be endued with power from on high" (Luke 24:49)

Making John 20:22 contradict the parallel passage in Luke is hermeneutically unsound.

2. According to Vincent's Word Studies, the fact that there is a missing article in front of "Holy Spirit" in the Greek points to this "breathing time" to the Day of Pentecost:

"The article is wanting. the gift bestowed was not that of the personal Holy Spirit, but rather an earnest of that gift... (Vincent's Word Studies, John 20:22)."

3. If the disciples received the Spirit at this moment, then Thomas never received it. Thomas was not there:

"But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came (verse 24)."

4. The Holy Spirit is only to come one time, not two:

"When the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me (John 15:26)."

5. The timing of the above promise that Jesus was to receive from the Father is clearly stated:

"Therefore, being by the right hand of god exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear (Acts 2:33)."

In other words, there was no "secret" coming of the Holy Spirit. There was only one coming, and it took place on the Day of Pentecost.

5. Jesus had to be glorified first, which includes full ascension:

"If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water (But his spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given: BECAUSE that Jesus was not yet glorified)(John 7:37-39)."

When does this take place? When one enters into glory (Luke 24:26), one is glorified (1 Timothy 3:16). Peter further clarifies the timing of the glorification in Acts 3:13, which is post ascension.

The consistent interpretation of John 20:22 is that Jesus' words and actions did not impart the Holy Spirit but were prophetic and symbolic actions in anticipation of the Day of Pentecost (which Jesus and the Gospel writers consistently taught throughout ALL the Gospels). Nowhere does Jesus nor the Gospel writers teach TWO comings of the Holy Spirit. The Gift of the Holy Spirit is THE GIFT OF THE SPIRIT HIMSELF, which is the INDWELLING.

When does this take place in clear Scripture? This gives us the timing.

"So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed." (John 17:1–6)

On the road to Emmaus, the Lord said, "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory? (Luke 24:26). Thus, after Jesus is raised from the dead, he has not yet entered into his glory in his post-resurrection body.

If it is argued that this, his body is glorious because it has been raised from the dead. We are reminded of John 1:14, of which the apostles testify, "we beheld his glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

This text speaks of his earthly ministry. However, it is doubtful that it has any reference to his physical outward appearance. His political and social rank was inglorious, despised, and the cause of rejection.

You are right about THE // HO as it is NOT in the Greek text and I have a small book called the THE GIVER AND HIS GIFTS by E W BULLNGER and explains why the Greek THE // HO is not needed in John 20:22 and would be to long to show it .

#1 Jon 20:22 reads , WHEN HE HAD SAID // EIPON is in the Greek AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , PARTICIPLE in the NOINARIVE CASE in the SINGULAR .

#2 THIS // TOUTO is a DEMONSTRATIVE PRONOUN , ACCUSAIVE CASE , in the NEUTER in the SLINGULAR .

#3 HE BREATHED ON // EMPHYSAO is in the AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , in the INDICATIVE MOOD in the SINGLUR

#4 UNTO THEM // AUTOS , is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN , in the DATIVE CASE in the PLURAL

#5 RECEIVE YE // LAMBANO is in the Greek AOTIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , IMPERATIVE MOOD , in the PLURAL .

#6 HOLY // AGIOS is in the ACCUSAIVE CASE , in the SIGNULAR means it only happen ONE TIME .

#7 SPIRIT // PNEUMA is also in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in the SINGULAR .


So , your thoughts on verse 23 where it says , "and whose so ever ( SINS ) YE retain , THEY ARE RETAINED ?

The Greek words , THEY ARE RETAINED // KRATEO is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , in the INDICATIVE MOOD which means it a FACT . and is in the PLURAL and the means it will happen again !!

dan p