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Conflicting morals

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Beanieboy

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To be a Christian, in my opinion, one must believe the simplest of things: Jesus loves me, this I know. That's all. That's what one "believes" - that Jesus does indeed love them. So many people fear God, as in are afraid of him. They believe that God could just as soon kick you into hell as save you. However, I am beginning to believe that so many of us feel that we deserve hell, and unless we accept God's love, which isn't much to ask, we put ourselves in our own kind of hell. I know that I am probably my own worst enemy.

However, once we truly believe that, once we believe that God truly loves us, and nothing can separate us from that, we become a new creation. We love others as ourselves.

Unfortunately, I think some people get stuck at the "Jesus loves me" part, but refuse to believe that Jesus loves us all. I personally have been told by some self proclaimed christians that God hates me, doesn't listen to my prayers, that I make God sick, etc. I have been told that my sin separates me from God, despite the fact that the bible says nothing, not even death, can separate me from the love of God.

At 45, it was the first time I had been told that (from God.) Basically, after a long session of prayer about a big problem that I have been struggling with, God told me that he loved me even before I was born. He said that my parents created my body, but he created my soul. I asked why he loved me, having a day of self deprecation, and he asked me why a parent loves their baby - they simply eat, sleep, babble, and cry and demand to be given so much. Yet, the parents care for the baby, who probably can't even comprehend the parents as separate beings. The parents must love the baby first, and in turn, the baby speaks one day, and tells them that he loves them as well. With that love instilled within them, they grow into children, and just as the parent gave them love, they love other children and make friends. Those children who do not love, who bully, who are selfish, are usually not given love, and don't love themselves, and so, cannot love their neighbor because they don't love themselves. However, those who have love internally, are given that love, are shown how much they are loved, and believe it, give their love freely. It becomes their nature.

In issues of socialism, an adult who loves can see the big picture. If we don't support education, it may benefit the children of wealthy parents, but the community as a whole will be less productive, and even the country. It will ultimately hurt the economy. If we don't offer everyone health care, the health of the nation is then at jeopardy, with disease spreading from those who are unable to afford health care.

There are those who I believe simply don't love themselves, and so they are unable to love others. They replace that emptiness with material wealth, with status, with expensive clothes to keep convincing themselves that they are better than others, and the idea of using their gift of wealth to help others in need then becomes a threat of their status, a threat of their security.

There is a myth a meritocracy in the US - those who are wealthy are rich because they worked hard, and deserve it, and those who have none deserve their lot as well.
The Meritocracy Myth
Therefore, why should I have to give to another? Christ says we should, but that would be enabling another the be lazy. Plus, I worked for it. However, it is God who has blessed me. It is God who has favored me. It is man who has decided to pay a pro baseball player 13 million/yr, and a teacher 30K, even though the teacher is doing an important job. And if we simply live in excess, something Christ warns against, our faith become strangled, and for good reason. Having stuff is really seductive. Having people look at you with envy driving your convertible feeds our ego. We start to view ourselves, and others as: you are what you own.

We learn to share in kindergarten, but we learn to keep as adults. That is the way of man, and not the way of God. Can you still be a Christian and think that the concept of socialism - of thinking as a group, as community, and not just oneself - is evil? Yes, but unless one can become like a child - all that we learned and came natural to us when we were 5 - one can't enter the Kingdom.

Basically, if you can only enjoy Heaven by jeering at those who didn't make it in through the Pearly Gates, then you will realize that it is you who are outside. If you can only enjoy Heaven knowing that not everyone is there, like it is an exclusive club, you will be like the son that stayed home, that is angry about the Prodigal Son returning and getting a party, that doesn't rejoice with the Father that his son has returned.

But, there is hope for you - for everyone. You simply have to deny yourself, and become One with The Father, One with the Body of Christ, One with the Human Race. Until you do, you won't fit through the door.

This is in no way to blame those who are anti-socialism. I understand and agree with many of their points. It bothers me that the CEO of The United Way makes 1 million dollars, when that money that is donated is meant to help people, not be given to one greedy person who "helps those in need." I agree that sometimes the government is wasteful in spending, and the $1000 donation changes hands so many times, that there seems to be only $100 by the time it reaches the one for whom it was intended. And I can understand how someone working very hard to make $1 million/year feels "robbed" when their money is withheld through taxes for social services without their say. I want my money to go to the services that I support, and not to those which I do not. There is also a ungrateful attitude that can come from taking from those who are fortunate to be making hand over fist. There is not a thank you, but sometimes, a demand, an expectation. For example, I often read of the man in St. Paul, MN who came from a poor upbringing, only to make millions through hard work and shrewd choices in business. However, he decided that he wanted to use his gift of wealth to give to those who needed it, and people would write in and request a grant. I'm sure that I would have been tempted myself, having struggled at times while I was there during layoffs and the like. In my ESL class, a mother said that she was only able to buy enough milk for her baby to feed her once a day, and wanted enough for two bottles, and possibly occasional ice cream for her daughter. She was granted her request.

Another boy asked for $1000 to buy a car so a girl would like him. He was told that he should find another girlfriend.

However, one man demanded $20,000, saying, "what is that money to a guy like you that has millions? So, just send me the money already!"

What is 50 cents to that same man, when asked for spare change from a homeless person? However, do we not pass the same person, saying, "sorry," or even ignoring them altogether? Is it my place to demand money from anyone, rather than ask for it in mercy? Is it fair to judge a rich man that chooses to keep every penny, when, if we are truthful, is not unlike us, who would be generous in theory when talking about winning the lottery, but may actually keep every penny should our actual numbers come up? While the bible says that it is more difficult for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than the rich man to enter into the Kingdom, should we not look upon such people with compassion, and mercy, because their temptation is far greater than ours?

I love staying in a hotel, and having someone make my bed, and pick up my towels. If that was your life, could you give it up to donate money to a library in a part of town that you have never been in, for kids you have never seen, except on crime stories in the news? Have you ever owned a pair of expensive pants, or an expensive shirt, that when worn is probably as close to The Lord of the Rings as you can get, making you feel like a million dollars?

I want to go to India, but after watching Slumdog Millionaire, I'm embarrassed. The Americans wanted to see the "real India". A boy, called a Slumdog, not even human, is beaten by the police without mercy. He says, "You wanted to see the Real India! Well, here it is!!" The tourists say, "Well, we are going to show you the real America." My friends growned, and said, "no, please," and saw the tourists throw money at the boy, a BandAid for a terrible problem. And for whose benefit was it? The tourists, to make them feel better. I have heard of child prostitution in India, Thailand and other countries. The children are maimed to garner more sympathy, and earn more money for their selfish guardians. That is true poverty, and it's hard to face. It's hard to see, to acknowledge, and it's so much nicer to be with friends sharing a nice bottle of wine at a nice restaurant looking at the skyline of Manhattan, than knowing that my money has often gone to vanity, rather than help feed a child in a 3rd world country that is starving from poverty.

It isn't just the rich, but the American "poor", those who are poor because they have no car, don't have an XBox, or a big flat screen TV, those who think that they have no option to help those in need because they have so little. In Mexico, I've seen families who literally live in the dump.

Americans constitute 5% of the world's population but consume 24% of the world's energy.
Americans throw out 200,000 tons of edible food daily.
Americans eat 815 billion calories of food each day - that's roughly 200 billion more than needed - enough to feed 80 million people.

What needs to change is America's way of thinking. We want to blame the wealthy, but working in a U cafeteria, I witnessed so much wasted food. We need to think globally. If we did, we could feel the world. We need to stop thinking about borders, and start thinking of the world as Our Neighbor, as Children whom God loves. And we need to begin to make that change with ourselves, and inspire others by our own actions.
 
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Bro_Sam

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At 45, it was the first time I had been told that (from God.) Basically, after a long session of prayer about a big problem that I have been struggling with, God told me that he loved me even before I was born. He said that my parents created my body, but he created my soul.

Then that wasn't God you were talking to because the Bible very clearly says in Psalm 139:13 that God created our bodies, not our parents. Our parents are only human beings. They don't have the ability to create our bodies.

In issues of socialism, an adult who loves can see the big picture. If we don't support education, it may benefit the children of wealthy parents, but the community as a whole will be less productive, and even the country.

Why can't we support education at the local level? Why does it have to be at the federal level?

Therefore, why should I have to give to another? Christ says we should

So, did Christ say that we should give to the poor or that we should give our money to the government and let them give it to the poor?

We learn to share in kindergarten, but we learn to keep as adults.

I take it you've never been to a playground before. All you'll hear is "MINE! MINE! GIVE THAT BACK!"

And for whose benefit was it? The tourists, to make them feel better.

Just like liberals who take money from one group that's earned it to give to another that hasn't and then brag about how "compassionate" they are.

Americans constitute 5% of the world's population but consume 24% of the world's energy.

Produce most of the world's goods and technology, and defends most of the world.
 
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Beanieboy

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It says that we're to preach the Gospel and I do.



Believe me, I am a consistent and very vocal criticism of Catholicism's doctrines.

However, the pope wasn't speaking about doctrine. He was making a political statement. He's welcome to his opinion.

Is that all it says in the Gospel?
And what is the "Good News" that you preach?
What "Good News" did Jesus preach prior to the crucifition?

I find it so interesting that people think the Gospel is: Repent, ask Jesus to forgive you, and you will have eternal life because Jesus died for your sins.

What did he, then, say during his 3 years of preaching?
"Well, if you sign up now, in 3 years or so, I will be nailed to a cross, then I will die for your sins, and you will be able to get a Condo in Heaven."

Was that the Good News? The future Salvation?

He taught that if someone asks for your shirt, offer your coat. If someone asks for you to walk a mile, walk 3. Give more than you are asked. If someone is in need, help them without asking for reward, and do it privately. He taught that one should forgive without end. If someone wrongs you, forgive them, and don't return a slap with a slap. He taught the importance of humility, the dangers of greed and love of wealth, the importance of love, of faith, of hope, of charity.

People are so happy at Christmas because God sent his Son, who became flesh. God did so out of love. Jesus came to teach us how to love. And why were the sinners drawn to him?

Because the Pharisees told the tax collectors that God would accept them only when they repented and lived a sinfree life like them. The Pharisees were dead inside, though. They lived externally, lived for the praise of others, according to the Gospel. They told people that they weren't worthy of them, let alone God. They made the "sinners" think that God didn't really love them, and was unattainable, knowing that they would never be perfect, and so, never loved by God.

And Jesus came, and said, "Guess what? I love you, right now, right where you are. You are worthy of love, right now, and I am aware that you work as a prostitute. I love you now, more than you will ever know. You are worth saving to me. What do I ask of you? To believe me. Believe that I love you. That's it."

And they had never heard that before. They were told that God's love was conditional, that if you took a step too many, you broke the Sabbath commandment and angered God. But Jesus was telling them, the poor are blessed by God with mercy. The meek are powerful in God's eyes. The lowest servant wears a crown for God if he serves his master with love, with humility, and with generosity. Those who humble themselves before God are exalted, and those who dare to exalt themselves are humbled.

I often grew up speaking to God, but taught a subtle suggestion that God may or may not be listening. God was separate from me, far away, maybe busy with more important matters than my insignificant problem. He was the President, and I had a number of secretaries to plead my case in hopes God would listen. However, I have learned that it is quite the opposite. God is standing on his head constantly, trying to get our attention. Some claim that he only speaks through the Word, but even Christ says, "Out of the mouth of babes, and sucklings thou hast perfected praise." (Matthew 21: 16)
God speaks to us through any means that he desires - this post, a TV commercial, a movie, a friend, the Bible, prayer, a dream, a song - and if you speak to God regularly, you will recognize the message, the voice.
John 10:27, “My sheep hears my voice; I know them and they follow me.”

Example: I felt really bad once about myself after getting a harsh insult. At my African Dance Class, that began with a story for us to think about, the instructor said that those who insult you are saying far more about themselves. This message was repeated at a hip-hop concert when a friend said almost those exact words. I read the program notes waiting for it to start, and the director said that we should support one another, and that those who insult us say far more about themselves than the intended target.

"I get it, God", I said. And acknowledging makes such things easier to hear each time.

The Good News, I believe, is that "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the bible tells me so." And knowing that he loves me, Jesus, who is good, who is perfect, and only asks that I acknowledge his love for me, and accept it, then allows me to love myself, and in loving myself, I then can love my neighbor without asking anything in return except that he acknowledge that love, to simply accept it, and what he does after that is up to him.

And then, rather than cowering in fear of angering the Cloud God, who would just as soon snuff you for the slightest indiscretion, I now see each day as full of a world of endless possibility. Rather than treating God like a genie, and asking him to get me this or that, I ask him how I may serve him, and thank him for any opportunity that comes my way, because it only reminds me of the love he gives without demanding anything in return, who loves me simply because I Am. And I know that God is not without, but is within me, is intertwined with me, hears me better than I hear myself, knows me better than I know myself, and cares for me even more than I care for myself, and I know that I am never alone.

I ask forgiveness, and he tells me, "I love you." I think I am going to him in apology, begging to be welcomed back, and he says, "I love you. I have never left, and I will never leave."

He demands nothing but my acceptance of his love, and what happens is, I change. I want to live differently, to grow closer, to spend more time in prayer, not out of duty, not out of obedience, not out of fear, but out of thankfulness, and joy, and happiness. I am a new creation, constantly evolving, and shedding my old ways effortlessly, unconsciously, and realize that the one that I needed to beg forgiveness from the most was myself, my own worst enemy. And in so, the doors of heaven swing open wide.

Do you preach that? Because that truly is Good News.
 
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Beanieboy

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Then that wasn't God you were talking to because the Bible very clearly says in Psalm 139:13 that God created our bodies, not our parents. Our parents are only human beings. They don't have the ability to create our bodies.

So, DNA is wrong, because of Psalms 139:13? The genetics of a baby isn't going to make him/her look like both of the parents? The baby is made without the parents' sexual reproduction?

I thank God for the food that is on my table, but God doesn't work teaching ESL. I teach, and I thank him that I have enough food. I am thankful for my situation, and I thank him, rather than thinking that I eat independent of his blessings and mercy.

The bible isn't to be taken so literally.
Why can't we support education at the local level? Why does it have to be at the federal level?
I didn't say it had to be.
From a University Level, people go to John Hopkins from all over the country and world. I'm simply saying that the doctor that saves your kid's life one day may be the result of them having a grant because they couldn't afford the school, and the life lost may have been from withholding that money that could have been used for someone to have the opportunity to go to med school.

No man is an island unto himself.
So, did Christ say that we should give to the poor or that we should give our money to the government and let them give it to the poor?

I am not saying that I oppose to people giving the money to the poor themselves. For me personally, I would rather that someone take my tax money that I didn't see, and help those in need, because I don't know if I am organized enough to do it by myself, or if the needs of all of those who the money benefits would ever see it, once people got their hands on it, including myself.

Do you believe that, were we to cut ALL social funding, that the money will still be there for Food Stamps, and Soup Kitchens, Battered Shelters, Help for the homeless, Habitat for Humanity, Unemployment, etc.? I wish I had that much faith in people, but I don't have that much faith in myself.

Potentially, I think the money would be kept - unless it would benefit the donor in tax breaks. As a result, someone may not have enough to eat. Were I really hungry and broke, I would have to either steal, prostitute myself, sell illegal drugs, or mug someone, and that isn't something that I want to have brought on society because I needed to keep my extra $50 a month.

However, I would be open to private donations as opposed to government run ones. Can you offer a solution of how that would work? How would the poor receive money, food, and shelter without any social program? I know little about this, but I have no better solution, other than going door to door, seeing if anybody needs something. With a govt run program, while not perfect, the people come to the program.

Do you have a better idea? I would love to hear it, because, as I said, I groan when I hear about United Way's 1 Million/yr CEO and the like, or sending money to the bloated African Child, who gets a fraction of the donation that is eaten up in advertising, salaries, etc.
I take it you've never been to a playground before. All you'll hear is "MINE! MINE! GIVE THAT BACK!"
You say that when someone breaks the rule - you don't take what isn't yours. However, if you have more than enough, you share. If I have one cookie, it's mine. If I have 30 cookies, and there are 29 kids, I can keep all the cookies for myself, but I won't make any friends. Then, when they have cookies, and I want one, they will say, "No. You had cookies, and wouldn't give me one, so why should I?" You make enemies.

It's the same as an adult. If you neighbor says, "Do you have a hammer I can borrow," and you say, "Yeah, I have one, no, I won't lend it to you," chances are, when you to borrow his circular saw, he will say, "Yeah, I have one, next to my hammer that I had to buy because you wouldn't let me borrow it. I lend to my friends. You aren't my friend. Get off my porch."

If it's me, I will lend it to you, and hope that you will turn around, but even if you don't, I have live Christ. I have loved you as myself.

Those who take the 30 cookies, who say, "NO! MINE!" aren't liked. They aren't living Christ, but living only for themselves, and I pity them. They are bringing upon themselves their own punishment, which is isolation from others.

Just like liberals who take money from one group that's earned it to give to another that hasn't and then brag about how "compassionate" they are.
I saw the shocking Bruno, and he made fun of just this. He asked the Mexican pool men if they wanted to make some extra money, since there was no furniture in the mansion, and he was doing an interview with Paula Abdul. When Paula walks in, the Mexicans are on their hands and knees, serving as a table, and chairs. Paula reluctantly sits down, and Bruno asks her about her humanitarianism. She comments about how great it is helping others, because it is a good thing to do.

The metaphor is that so many Mexicans are breaking their backs for such liberals as you say, taking the money from conservatives, from themselves, to show how compassionate they are, when the bible even says that we should do all of this in secret, in humility. I don't believe liberals or conservatives have a monopoly on serving their neighbor monetarily, but rather, it is a choice from the heart of each individual, neither with labels in the eyes of God. I see nothing altruistic of one person taking my money to give to another, who then says, "look how good I am." However, for me personally, I am thankful that my money goes to people that have it much worse than I, who worry about their next meal, where they will sleep, or how they will stay warm enough to not freeze to death.

I have worked in nonprofit organizations. The people that are in these organizations tend to donate their lives and time, as opposed to their money, because nonprofits pay very poorly. However, without them, I question if the money or services would ever arrive to those who needed them most.

Produce most of the world's goods and technology, and defends most of the world.

This is true, but not my point.
My friend David was from El Savador. He was a guerilla during the Contras and Sandanistas, after witnessing executions of classmates who were killed without a trial by his martial law government. As we scraped plates, I looked up to see tears rolling down his face. This was one of the toughest guys I had met, who had had a rough life. He told me that he once saw a friend of his decapitated in the street as he went for his morning jog. When I asked if he was ok, he was crying because he was so angry. His people had almost no food to eat, but here, we had so much, and we wasted it. I looked up, and saw the uneaten pancakes, the 4 slices of bacon, the half eaten grapefruit. Each plate was often 1/2 full, being able to go up repeatedly without paying anything.

All I am saying is that the US is wasteful, and if we weren't, we could help feed the world. One of Sodom's sins was that they had plenty, but neglected the poor.

Were you to have a son, and you gave him enough money for a pizza, and he ordered, at it until he was stuffed, eating far more than he needed to, and then through it away, rather than offering it to your other children, saying, "Dad gave ME the money!," how would you feel?

Is that not the same analogy of God the Father, and us, his children?
 
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Smidlee

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Christ does teach us as individuals to give to the poor yet I find too many support social programs simply because they themselves don't want to fool with the poor. Remember Judas out of all the disciples acted as if he cared for the poor the most yet later learned why? So I'm am very skeptical of any politician who claims he for giving to the poor with taxpayers money then turn around give themselves a raise for doing such a good deed. Some people idea of giving is letting someone else to give.
Still Capitalism has it flaws so I believe you can go extremes on that end as well.
 
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Beanieboy

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Christ does teach us as individuals to give to the poor yet I find too many support social programs simply because they themselves don't want to fool with the poor. Remember Judas out of all the disciples acted as if he cared for the poor the most yet later learned why? So I'm am very skeptical of any politician who claims he for giving to the poor with taxpayers money then turn around give themselves a raise for doing such a good deed. Some people idea of giving is letting someone else to give.
Still Capitalism has it flaws so I believe you can go extremes on that end as well.

I don't think there is anyone that would disagree that it is a perfect system, but what alternative do you offer?
 
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Smidlee

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I don't think there is anyone that would disagree that it is a perfect system, but what alternative do you offer?
For America (I hope I'm wrong) our govenment will go bankrupt. Unlike a individual I can only give what I have but the government can and has give away money they don't have. It's just a matter of time until this catches up with us.
 
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Beanieboy

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For America (I hope I'm wrong) our govenment will go bankrupt. Unlike a individual I can only give what I have but the government can and has give away money they don't have. It's just a matter of time until this catches up with us.

So, what do you suggest?
 
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Bro_Sam

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Is that all it says in the Gospel?

Is what all it says in the Gospel?

And what is the "Good News" that you preach?
What "Good News" did Jesus preach prior to the crucifition?

That man is sinful and in danger of facing God's wrath on Judgement Day because of his sin. But because of God's great mercy, He has given us His only begotten Son so that if we will repent of our sins and put our faith in Christ and His atonement on the cross for our salvation, we will be saved.

I find it so interesting that people think the Gospel is: Repent, ask Jesus to forgive you, and you will have eternal life because Jesus died for your sins.

And I find it heretical that you don't.

What did he, then, say during his 3 years of preaching?
"Well, if you sign up now, in 3 years or so, I will be nailed to a cross, then I will die for your sins, and you will be able to get a Condo in Heaven."

Straw man. We never claim that He said that.

He taught that if someone asks for your shirt, offer your coat. If someone asks for you to walk a mile, walk 3. Give more than you are asked. If someone is in need, help them without asking for reward, and do it privately. He taught that one should forgive without end. If someone wrongs you, forgive them, and don't return a slap with a slap. He taught the importance of humility, the dangers of greed and love of wealth, the importance of love, of faith, of hope, of charity.

Yes, He also taught that, but you asked specifically about the Gospel.

People are so happy at Christmas because God sent his Son, who became flesh. God did so out of love. Jesus came to teach us how to love. And why were the sinners drawn to him?

They weren't. They cursed Him and killed Him.

And Jesus came, and said, "Guess what? I love you, right now, right where you are. You are worthy of love, right now, and I am aware that you work as a prostitute. I love you now, more than you will ever know. You are worth saving to me. What do I ask of you? To believe me. Believe that I love you. That's it."

Yeah, you forgot the part about "Unless you repent, you will also perish", "unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins", "go and sin no more", and "depart from Me, you workers of iniquity, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels".

And they had never heard that before. They were told that God's love was conditional

God's love in unconditional. It is God's forgiveness that is conditional.

I often grew up speaking to God

Let me guess, was this the same "god" who told you that your parents created you when the Bible says that God created you?

Some claim that he only speaks through the Word, but even Christ says, "Out of the mouth of babes, and sucklings thou hast perfected praise." (Matthew 21: 16)

Please read the whole passage. Jesus isn't saying that God speaks to us extra-Biblically, but that it was the children who recognized Jesus.

According to 2 Tim 3:16, what source has God given us as the source of doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works?

The Good News, I believe, is that "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the bible tells me so." And knowing that he loves me, Jesus, who is good, who is perfect, and only asks that I acknowledge his love for me, and accept it, then allows me to love myself, and in loving myself, I then can love my neighbor without asking anything in return except that he acknowledge that love, to simply accept it, and what he does after that is up to him.

But that isn't the Gospel laid out in scripture.

I ask forgiveness, and he tells me, "I love you." I think I am going to him in apology, begging to be welcomed back, and he says, "I love you. I have never left, and I will never leave."

Sounds like the same "god" that told you that your parents created you, when the God of the Bible says that He created you.

He demands nothing but my acceptance of his love, and what happens is, I change.

According to Jesus, He demands that you repent.

Do you preach that? Because that truly is Good News.

No, I preach the Gospel.

So, DNA is wrong, because of Psalms 139:13? The genetics of a baby isn't going to make him/her look like both of the parents? The baby is made without the parents' sexual reproduction?

I thank God for the food that is on my table, but God doesn't work teaching ESL. I teach, and I thank him that I have enough food. I am thankful for my situation, and I thank him, rather than thinking that I eat independent of his blessings and mercy.

The bible isn't to be taken so literally.

Why can't we support education at the local level? Why does it have to be at the federal level?
I didn't say it had to be.
From a University Level, people go to John Hopkins from all over the country and world. I'm simply saying that the doctor that saves your kid's life one day may be the result of them having a grant because they couldn't afford the school, and the life lost may have been from withholding that money that could have been used for someone to have the opportunity to go to med school.

No man is an island unto himself.

So, did Christ say that we should give to the poor or that we should give our money to the government and let them give it to the poor?
I am not saying that I oppose to people giving the money to the poor themselves. For me personally, I would rather that someone take my tax money that I didn't see, and help those in need, because I don't know if I am organized enough to do it by myself, or if the needs of all of those who the money benefits would ever see it, once people got their hands on it, including myself.

Do you believe that, were we to cut ALL social funding, that the money will still be there for Food Stamps, and Soup Kitchens, Battered Shelters, Help for the homeless, Habitat for Humanity, Unemployment, etc.? I wish I had that much faith in people, but I don't have that much faith in myself.

Potentially, I think the money would be kept - unless it would benefit the donor in tax breaks. As a result, someone may not have enough to eat. Were I really hungry and broke, I would have to either steal, prostitute myself, sell illegal drugs, or mug someone, and that isn't something that I want to have brought on society because I needed to keep my extra $50 a month.

However, I would be open to private donations as opposed to government run ones. Can you offer a solution of how that would work? How would the poor receive money, food, and shelter without any social program? I know little about this, but I have no better solution, other than going door to door, seeing if anybody needs something. With a govt run program, while not perfect, the people come to the program.

Do you have a better idea? I would love to hear it, because, as I said, I groan when I hear about United Way's 1 Million/yr CEO and the like, or sending money to the bloated African Child, who gets a fraction of the donation that is eaten up in advertising, salaries, etc.

I take it you've never been to a playground before. All you'll hear is "MINE! MINE! GIVE THAT BACK!"
You say that when someone breaks the rule - you don't take what isn't yours. However, if you have more than enough, you share. If I have one cookie, it's mine. If I have 30 cookies, and there are 29 kids, I can keep all the cookies for myself, but I won't make any friends. Then, when they have cookies, and I want one, they will say, "No. You had cookies, and wouldn't give me one, so why should I?" You make enemies.

It's the same as an adult. If you neighbor says, "Do you have a hammer I can borrow," and you say, "Yeah, I have one, no, I won't lend it to you," chances are, when you to borrow his circular saw, he will say, "Yeah, I have one, next to my hammer that I had to buy because you wouldn't let me borrow it. I lend to my friends. You aren't my friend. Get off my porch."

If it's me, I will lend it to you, and hope that you will turn around, but even if you don't, I have live Christ. I have loved you as myself.

Those who take the 30 cookies, who say, "NO! MINE!" aren't liked. They aren't living Christ, but living only for themselves, and I pity them. They are bringing upon themselves their own punishment, which is isolation from others.


Just like liberals who take money from one group that's earned it to give to another that hasn't and then brag about how "compassionate" they are.
I saw the shocking Bruno, and he made fun of just this. He asked the Mexican pool men if they wanted to make some extra money, since there was no furniture in the mansion, and he was doing an interview with Paula Abdul. When Paula walks in, the Mexicans are on their hands and knees, serving as a table, and chairs. Paula reluctantly sits down, and Bruno asks her about her humanitarianism. She comments about how great it is helping others, because it is a good thing to do.

The metaphor is that so many Mexicans are breaking their backs for such liberals as you say, taking the money from conservatives, from themselves, to show how compassionate they are, when the bible even says that we should do all of this in secret, in humility. I don't believe liberals or conservatives have a monopoly on serving their neighbor monetarily, but rather, it is a choice from the heart of each individual, neither with labels in the eyes of God. I see nothing altruistic of one person taking my money to give to another, who then says, "look how good I am." However, for me personally, I am thankful that my money goes to people that have it much worse than I, who worry about their next meal, where they will sleep, or how they will stay warm enough to not freeze to death.

I have worked in nonprofit organizations. The people that are in these organizations tend to donate their lives and time, as opposed to their money, because nonprofits pay very poorly. However, without them, I question if the money or services would ever arrive to those who needed them most.

This is true, but not my point.

No, it was my response to something silly that you said.

All I am saying is that the US is wasteful, and if we weren't, we could help feed the world. One of Sodom's sins was that they had plenty, but neglected the poor.

Actually, the problem isn't waste, but distribution.

Is that not the same analogy of God the Father, and us, his children?

No.
 
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Beanieboy

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That man is sinful and in danger of facing God's wrath on Judgement Day because of his sin. But because of God's great mercy, He has given us His only begotten Son so that if we will repent of our sins and put our faith in Christ and His atonement on the cross for our salvation, we will be saved.

You are saying that Jesus, while he was living, told people to put their faith of atonement on him dying on the cross, and pending his resurrection, and acceptance of him as their personal Lord and Saviour, they will have eternal life? That isn't what he preached. He was living, and selling his death would then have been quite hard. He did mention it in metaphor, but he taught a lot, mostly about the importance of love. The Sermon on the Mount? To give hope to the powerless.

But Jesus was telling people that Man was sinful? Wow! Like, we do bad things, like lie, and kill, and steal, sometimes? That's was Jesus big news, but their sins would one day be forgiven, so invest now...

He forgave sins prior to his death. Yep, it's in there.

Jesus releases us from the hell that we make for ourselves. He gives us love, teaches us that we are worth his love, are precious to him, until we begin to love ourselves, and then can love our neighbor as ourselves, and love God.

Those were the Two Greatest Commandments. Interesting you forget those.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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For America (I hope I'm wrong) our govenment will go bankrupt. Unlike a individual I can only give what I have but the government can and has give away money they don't have. It's just a matter of time until this catches up with us.

That's nothing new for either of the main politcal parties...which is why I always vote for the obscure candidate who share's my values :)

The sad thing is, it's already caught up with us but with the central banking schema that controls our money supply, it allows us to accumulate more debt and theoretically never have to pay it off. The federal reserve will issue us more money whenever we ask for it. The problem is that as soon as they issue us a trillion dollars to cover our national debt, it immediately devalues the rest of the currency in the system, which in turn leaves the American people in debt and not the government. (Which is why Ben Franklin warned us about central banks and the risks of not using an honest money system)

With legal tender system, the government prints money to cover their own butts and as a result, our money's value goes down...quite a clever trick, paying off their own debt by adding to ours...kind of scary.
 
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