Conflicting morals

[MaxP]

A very quick and simple question...

Is it possible to be a Fundamentalist Christian (believing that the bibe is 100% accurate and literal) and a Capitalist (or anti-Socialist) at the same time?

It's not possible to be a capitalist who holds money above all else, but is possible to be a capitalist.

 

[mont974x4]

I work in IT for marketing company in Akron Ohio that works with a lot of non-profit & charity companies along side our commercial clients so I see the how their programs operate, translate their business rules into code, and aid in the running & writing of their SRS reports that we send to them daily.

Average Response Rate: 9.6%...and that's not broken out by political party...that's across the board.

Is that good enough? Does first hand tangible knowledge count as proof?



I have a friend who works for a tax firm who told me that some people who make 20mil+ a year get away with only paying 3% in taxes...but somehow they're just so broke, they can't help anyone. I pay about 30% in taxes...then donate an addition grand to charity every year....so they have no excuse.

nope not good enough

sample size?
sample makeup?
questions asked?
answer options?


besides I don't know you. there is no reason for me to trust your information as being reliable

 

[Penumbra]

...okay now that part doesn't make sense.

Well, another source I looked up said republicans make more. So it's hard to tell for sure.

Socioeconomically, there are stereotypes of both rich and poor democrats and republicans. For poor republicans, there is the image of some poor redneck hunters sitting on their trailer porch. For rich republicans, well, Bush and McCain and wealthy CEOs and such. For poor democrats, typical poor cityfolk are usually assumed to be democrats. But then you have the image of upper middle class democrats. Warren Buffet, an iconic capitalist and multi-billionaire, is a democrat.

So I have no idea who makes more on average, other than from different sources I can read.

Edit: I just did some quick research. People in northern, traditionally democratic states generally pay the highest federal taxes, which means they most likely make more money on average. So democrats may very well make more on average. Also, some republican states apparently have no state income tax, which gives each person an extra 8% or so of their income to keep. So if they keep 8% more of their income, and give an extra 1% away to charity, they're still keeping more of their paycheck. So statistics regarding democrat/republican charity donations should only be considered in the same region to control as many variables as possible.

-Lyn

 

[mpok1519]

if its possible to be a messanic jew, is it possible to be a messianic muslim, or buddhist?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

nope not good enough

sample size?
sample makeup?
questions asked?
answer options?


besides I don't know you. there is no reason for me to trust your information as being reliable

Calling universe: 60-70 million between inbound and outbound calls
Target market: 25-60 years old (on outbound)
Questions Asked: If they're prior donors, other organizations they give to, and if they directly know someone who's the recipient of the services the charity provides.

For many of the clients, we don't even use KBM or Experian retrievals to identify likely donors...it's a true cross section that we use to build our calling files...and inbound, of course, is 100% random.

The only people who get filtered out are ones that are on state or federal DNC lists, ported cell numbers, and B2B.

 

[LJSGM]

I don't think that being a christian and being zealous policitically go hand in hand.

I mean, sure, if it helps people by putting some effort into changing some law, then go ahead, but our zealousness should be focused on God's kingdom and spreading the gospel.

 

[LJSGM]

We all pay taxes, it's really about what percentage is fair and what isn't.

I guess democrats see it as less hard for a rich person who lives in abundance to pay more taxes.

 

[mont974x4]

OK, it is in no way a scientific poll by a reputable organization.



You still haven't answered the other questions. What is rich? What shold be the tax limit? How much should people be forced to give to charity? Why should we trust teh givernment?

 

[LJSGM]

You still haven't answered the other questions. What is rich?

That is why we vote, in order tell our leaders what is fair and what isn't.

How much should people be forced to give to charity?

Strange view of the government, do you happen to be an anarcist?

Why should we trust teh givernment?

Because God tells you to. He tells you to submit to the government, for it is God's Servant to do you good.

 

[mont974x4]

We are not to abdicate our responsibility to the government. We are to help the poor, not pass that buck.


There is a difference between submission and trust. There is also a biblical basis for civil disobedience....ever hear of Daniel? Esther?

 

[LJSGM]

We are not to abdicate our responsibility to the government. We are to help the poor, not pass that buck.

No, but there's also nothing wrong with them doing some good too.

There is a difference between submission and trust. There is also a biblical basis for civil disobedience....ever hear of Daniel? Esther?

Those are in the OT???

The government is a state of order that benefits us while we are sinful man and it is ordained by God, and is God's servent to do you good, do you have a problem with that, cause it smells of rebellion in my opinion.

 

[mont974x4]

I don't really care what it smells like to you. It is based on love and justice and accountability. There is a limit. biblically, to how far we must submit to the unjust and vile leaders. In case you forgot, the OT is in the Bible.

The government cares not for love, justice, or accountability.

 

[LJSGM]

I don't really care what it smells like to you. It is based on love and justice and accountability. There is a limit. biblically, to how far we must submit to the unjust and vile leaders. In case you forgot, the OT is in the Bible.

The government cares not for love, justice, or accountability.

And God commanding us to submit to the worldly government was in the time of Caesar's government, I think ours is a step up from theirs, and you should be more greatful.

The OT speaks of Israel and Judah... are you a part of Israel or Judah?

 

[Bro_Sam]

A very quick and simple question...

Is it possible to be a Fundamentalist Christian (believing that the bibe is 100% accurate and literal) and a Capitalist (or anti-Socialist) at the same time?

What a silly question.

Is it possible to be a baseball player and believe in gravity at the same time?

 

[Bro_Sam]

I'll preface by stating that I'm not a Christian...

...but I'm going to lecture you all about how to practice your religion, anyway.

Well, the system of communalism referenced in the book of Acts and the system described by biblical historians that early Christians used seems to conflict with the current feelings of anti-Socialism conveyed by a lot of the modern conservatives.

Could you please show where the book of Acts says that they gave their money to the government to redistribute to the poor?

The early system was as follows: paying your taxes (the doctrine of giving to Rome what is Rome's)...followed by 10% to the Church, and roughly 10% of that remaining amount to the poor.

What verse is that?

Somehow that's translated into today's neo-Conservative view of paying as little in taxes as possible if you're rich, and fighting the idea of giving aid to the poor.

Actually, we believe very strongly in helping the poor. We just believe that it's up to us to help them and not government and we believe in helping them climb out of poverty, not merely subsidizing their poverty.

I haven't found one place in the bible where is says to help the poor (as long as the poor person in question doesn't fall into your personal criteria as lazy or undeserving)

See 2 Thess 3:10 - " if any would not work, neither should he eat. "

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Could you please show where the book of Acts says that they gave their money to the government to redistribute to the poor?

What verse is that?

Acts 4:32-35 (King James Version)

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need


As for how the money was allocated, I read that from some early non-biblical authors of the time that I stumbled across online.

It was mentioned in the writings of Dionysius who historians claimed lived/wrote about 150-200 years after the time of the gospels. Several other early authors also wrote about the system of Christian communalism.

List of early Christian writers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, I would encourage anyone to research some of their writings...it's a rather interesting read.

 

[HighwayMan]

Technically yes, but to do so without being hypocritical is hard and many fail at it. Capitalism most often leads to the rich taking advantage of the poor and accumulating wealth, as America and pretty much the entire world are prime examples. Which is very, very far from what Jesus thought.

 

[mont974x4]

yeah because all those socialist and communist countries are free of such things as greed....liberal elites are all poor and kind and giving.


oh please

 

[HighwayMan]

yeah because all those socialist and communist countries are free of such things as greed....liberal elites are all poor and kind and giving.


oh please

it is indicative that a capitalist's first form of defense is to point out the shortcomings of other systems. Capitalism may vary well be the "best" system currently in use, but that is far from the same thing as calling it good. Killing 10 people is better than killing a 100, but that still does not make killing good.

 

[mont974x4]

systems are not good or bad...they are merely tools. People are good or bad.

A comparison to socialism and other ideologies is expected and appropriate. It would be intelectually dishonest to assume it to be OK to have a discussion about one economic system and ignore the issue of the others.

BTW, I'd say socialism and communisim has killed far more people than liberals care to admit or think about. Most likely more than capitalism.