Conflicted About 1 John 5:7

[drjean]

The links are not talking about "Bible publishers." They are talking about a controversy regarding translating the Bible into Arabic. And I don't think the controversy has been accurately reported.

I cannot explain this any more clearly. I will not endeavor further after this.
The links show that the 3 Bible publishers/editors Wycliffe, SIL, and Frontier all removed references to the God the Son in their printing of Bibles going to the middle east. (May I remind all that this is still the Word of God and there are Christians in the middle east and no one is to alter or take away from God's Word as it's waters it down and makes it null and void---a warning from God.)

This occurred. It's part of history. The several links I gave show different reports about it and reactions. It was a big issue in the Christian world at the time and I was part of it. Either you believe this or you don't it's your choice but please stop insinuating I am a liar.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

It is such a clear defense of the Trinity in the King James Version but in nearly all the newer versions, the part mentioning about how the 3 were 1 was removed. They said it was because they were trying to match he 'original' manuscripts.

Confused about the issue. The verse in the KJV feels awfully inspired to me. Makes the Trinity irrefutable.

Any opinions?

OP I did research on this years ago and checked The Catholic Douai Rheims Bible (1610 A.D.) made from the Latin Vulgate (4th Century) and also The Wycliff Bible (1383 A.D.) also made from the Latin Vulgate and they all had the verse.

Then I checked The Official Greek Orthodox Text called The Patriarchal Text of 1904 A.D. and it was also there:
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/assets/uploads/books/18204/Eastern_Orthodox_Bible-New_Testament.pdf

Greek New Testament

The Protestant Geneva Bible also has it.

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

OP I did research on this years ago and checked The Catholic Douai Rheims Bible (1610 A.D.) made from the Latin Vulgate (4th Century) and also The Wycliff Bible (1383 A.D.) also made from the Latin Vulgate and they all had the verse.

Then I checked The Official Greek Orthodox Text called The Patriarchal Text of 1904 A.D. and it was also there.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/assets/uploads/books/18204/Eastern_Orthodox_Bible-New_Testament.pdf
Greek New Testament

The Protestant Geneva Bible also has it.

Indeed.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

The Words mentioned in the KJV are not in any of the early Greek manuscripts they do not show in any manuscript until the 16th century.

Yet, there it is in The Official "Greek" Orthodox Text called The Patriarchal Text of 1904 A.D.
Greek New Testament

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

Yet, there it is in The Official "Greek" Orthodox Text called The Patriarchal Text of 1904 A.D.
Greek New Testament

He's talking about scripts before a certain time. I believe Latin texts had it since antiquity though.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

He's talking about scripts before a certain time. I believe Latin texts had it since antiquity though.

Oh, I know I was just showing that people who actually speak Greek have the verse in Their "Official" Text.

 

[Dave G.]

My first wife, many moons ago, ended up leaving me ( actually booting me out), she was pregnant by a JW upper elder so to speak. Married him after our divorce, still living in our apartment and I lost the ability to lead her to the Lord. Not that I'm any kind of angel mind you but sheesh. Now that in no way speaks of the JW's as a whole but it does taint my view of them further than some here I suppose. I think they ( JWs not my x-wife and husband) have been to my house twice and I just politely reject them and do not welcome them in. But a pastor friend of mine led two of them to the Lord using their own bible and they got sent away from the JW clan later on. I think it's widely known that their bible is flawed. What can I say.

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

My first wife, many moons ago, ended up leaving me ( actually booting me out), she was pregnant by a JW upper elder so to speak. Married him after our divorce, still living in our apartment and I lost the ability to lead her to the Lord. Not that I'm any kind of angel mind you but sheesh. Now that in no way speaks of the JW's as a whole but it does taint my view of them further than some here I suppose. I think they have been to my house twice and I just politely reject them and do not welcome them in. But a pastor friend of mine led two of them to the Lord using their own bible and they got sent away from the JW clan later on. I think it's widely known that their bible is flawed. What can I say.

That's unfortunate.

 

[Dave G.]

That's unfortunate.

It's important to be equally yoked going in. But as I said I was no angel either but I did not expect that from her. It's so long ago, no need to dwell on that now. I do still wish her the best though and that she would find Jesus Christ the Lord and savior or that He open a door where someone can get to her outside the falsehood she came to know..

My present wife is on fire for the Lord. He always has a plan !

 

[Copperhead]

1 John 5:7 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
7 because three are who are testifying [in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one;

1 John 5:7 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
7 So there are three witnesses a]">[a]in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One;

1 John 5:7 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

1 John 5:7 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
7 For there are three, which bear record in heaven, the Father, the a]">[a]Word, and the holy Ghost: and these three are b]">[b]one.

1 John 5:7 English Standard Version (ESV)
7 For there are three that testify:

I'm getting the idea of three here LOL !

If I may add.....

International Standard Version:

1 John 5:8 (ISV) the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and these three are one.

Tree Of Life Version:

1 John 5:8 (TLV) the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and these three are one.

Wuest Expanded NT Translation:

1 John 5:8 (Wuest - The New Testament: An Expanded Translation) Because three there are that are constantly bearing testimony, the Spirit and the water and the blood. And the aforementioned three concur in the one thing.

 

[Dave G.]

If I may add.....



Wuest Expanded NT Translation:

1 John 5:8 (Wuest - The New Testament: An Expanded Translation) Because three there are that are constantly bearing testimony, the Spirit and the water and the blood. And the aforementioned three concur in the one thing.

Wow you don't see the Wuest NT quoted very often. I have a paper back version on my night stand that is under my NKJV leather bound. I refer to it occasionally but day in and day out read from the NKJV..

 

[Copperhead]

Wow you don't see the Wuest NT quoted very often. I have a paper back version on my night stand that is under my NKJV leather bound. I refer to it occasionally but day in and day out read from the NKJV..

Yeah, I primarily use the NKJV myself. I do have several other versions I will compare with. And the KJV is in that group. I just never cease to be amazed at the amount of time some will put into deriding everything in defense of KJV. They really need to spend some time on what the KJV translators had to say about their own translation.

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

Yeah, I primarily use the NKJV myself. I do have several other versions I will compare with. And the KJV is in that group. I just never cease to be amazed at the amount of time some will put into deriding everything in defense of KJV. They really need to spend some time on what the KJV translators had to say about their own translation.

While I believe the KJV is the superior translation of the Bible, I will not claim it is perfect. Instead of it attacking the others, it merely stands on top, with the others testifying to its strength.

 

[Dave G.]

Yeah, I primarily use the NKJV myself. I do have several other versions I will compare with. And the KJV is in that group. I just never cease to be amazed at the amount of time some will put into deriding everything in defense of KJV. They really need to spend some time on what the KJV translators had to say about their own translation.

The KJV I have on my kindle because we use it in church. It's fine if you understand that some verses come short in translation. And the pastors are pretty good about pointing these spots out in study.

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

The KJV I have on my kindle because we use it in church. It's fine if you understand that some verses come short in translation. And the pastors are pretty good about pointing these spots out in study.

The KJV language is commanding, which I like.

 

[mark kennedy]

It is such a clear defense of the Trinity in the King James Version but in nearly all the newer versions, the part mentioning about how the 3 were 1 was removed. They said it was because they were trying to match he 'original' manuscripts.

Confused about the issue. The verse in the KJV feels awfully inspired to me. Makes the Trinity irrefutable.

Any opinions?

Yea, that's one of the biggest issues with Textus Receptus, that passage was altered to fit a Trinitarian formula. The Trinity is based on the Incarnation, that text does not stand alone as a persuasive proof text. The KJV is a great translation, it stands up will to close scrutiny and some of it's inconsistencies with the majority text are negligible.

 

[Dave G.]

The KJV language is commanding, which I like.

Yes I agree. But NKJV just reads easier for me and doesn't lose as much command as some other translations can. Also, command is good but all the better if it's an accurate command.

 

[Copperhead]

The KJV is indeed a great translation. The intent of the translators, in their own comments, was to make a translation for the common reader. The same claim of many translations today. Also, based on the KJV translators comments, I almost bet they would have sold their mothers to have the wealth of original source material we have today.

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

The KJV is indeed a great translation. The intent of the translators, in their own comments, was to make a translation for the common reader. The same claim of many translations today. Also, based on the KJV translators comments, I almost bet they would have sold their mothers to have the wealth of original source material we have today.

That's something. (In a positive sense.)

 

[hedrick]

There's actually a danger in citing this text. It gives the impression that the Trinity depends upon a verse that probably isn't actually part of the text. That could cause people to wonder about the doctrine itself.