confession

[bennyk]

I read somewhere that confession of sins must be done to a minister of God and they have the option to forgive you or deny you forgiveness.

The link http://www.religion-cults.com/spirit/confession.htm contains this...
" … In the first apparition to his disciples, he specifically gave them the power to forgive sins, or not to forgive them!. The power that only God had before, it was a blasphemy to forgive sins by anyone else than God! (Mk.2:7). But Jesus tells now to his disciples, "receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven tem; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (Jn.21:23). The ministers of the Church of Jesus now can forgive sins, or retain them!. That's why the penitent has to confess to the minister what are his or her sins, so the minister can decide either to forgive them or to retain them. If the sinner tells the minister he has stolen $1,000, may be the minister would say to him that to forgive this sin he has first to return the $1.000. Or if the sinner confesses he is living in adultery, the minister may ask him to stop the live of adultery, or a serious promise to do so, before forgiving his sin….


Jesus left us a divine Church, but a very human one on earth. If in your church there are no ministers of Christ with the power to forgive sins, it is a church without power, it is not the Church of Christ!. In the Church of Christ there are ministers of the Lord with the great power to forgive sins, or to retain them!.


Of course, God can still forgive sins directly!. But the usual plan of God, is to go to him through a minister of his Church. However in any case of emergency, when there is not available a minister of the Church, the sins can be forgiven by an act of contrition and trust in the Mercy of God, with the purpose of doing a normal Confession to a minister of the Church as soon as possible."


I always believed that if I confess my sins to God and repent that he will always forgive me. Do I have to confess my sins to a minister or have the intention to confess my sins to a minister eventually to truly be forgiven?


Please help explain this to me, thank you.

 

[JTLauder]

There is a difference between the ability and availability of something and the mandate of something.

God has given people the ability to forgive sins as an extension of himself--to be available and serve as "ministers" of God's grace and mercy to others.

But that does not mean it's mandated the we MUST go through ministers. While it can be helpful and edifying to be able to confess our sins to one another to keep us humble and be accountable to one another, what Jesus accomplished at the cross actually bridged the gap the separated us from God so that we can now come directly to God.

We need to look at the OT for the background in this. Specifications were given in building the tabernacle/temple where God "resided" in the most holy place inside. A curtain hung that separated this room from the outer room. And only the high priest after cleansing himself was allowed to enter the Most Holy place to stand before God. To be atoned for one's past sins before Christ, people had offer blood sacrifices and confess their sins to the priests who then brought the confessions and sin offerings to God.

Now at the moment when Jesus died at the cross, this curtain that separated God in the Most Holy Place from people tore apart, signifying the separation has been fulfilled and bridged--people can now come directly to God without requiring a human intermediary.

And Jesus uttered a loud cry and breathed his last. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. -- Mark 15:37-38

 

[bennyk]

So would you say the sites/writing that says you must confess to a minister and then they have the option to grant/deny you forgiveness would only apply to the old testament?

"If the sinner tells the minister he has stolen $1,000, may be the minister would say to him that to forgive this sin he has first to return the $1.000. Or if the sinner confesses he is living in adultery, the minister may ask him to stop the live of adultery, or a serious promise to do so, before forgiving his sin…"

That for example. What if the sinner said he no longer had the $1,000 to return, could the minister deny him forgiveness? If he repented, confessed, and asked for forgiveness but had no way to take back what he did (aka returning the money) would that be enough?

And could he just confess to God and receive forgiveness?

Thank you for your help, it is greatly appreciated.

 

[JTLauder]

The site you listed above is from a Catholic perspective. Catholicism teaches that you must confess your sins to a priest, who then gives you penance to perform by which you then receive forgiveness.

The concept of confession and forgiveness is based on one's realization and acknowledgment of wrongdoing (sin). It's not just telling God (or to God through another person) what you've done, but it's about turning from that sin so you don't repeat it and a willingness to make restitution for the wrong done.

While that comes from God, we may not be receptive enough to the Holy Spirit's leading to know what to do. That's why I said it's helpful to confess our sins to one another (not necessarily to just ordained ministers) for accountability and guidance on how to proceed in making restitution and turning from your sin.

Now, God's forgiveness is absolute upon our confession and repentance. But there may also be human consequences to our wrong doing, such as your example in stealing the $1,000. Part of your repentance means also taking responsibility and accepting whatever human consequences of your wrong doing, such as you would probably be subjected to a criminal record for your theft. Now if you refuse to accept all responsibility and consequences, you have in essence negated your own forgiveness because it shows that you are not truly repentant.

 

[IamAdopted]

I read somewhere that confession of sins must be done to a minister of God and they have the option to forgive you or deny you forgiveness.

The link http://www.religion-cults.com/spirit/confession.htm contains this...
" … In the first apparition to his disciples, he specifically gave them the power to forgive sins, or not to forgive them!. The power that only God had before, it was a blasphemy to forgive sins by anyone else than God! (Mk.2:7). But Jesus tells now to his disciples, "receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven tem; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (Jn.21:23). The ministers of the Church of Jesus now can forgive sins, or retain them!. That's why the penitent has to confess to the minister what are his or her sins, so the minister can decide either to forgive them or to retain them. If the sinner tells the minister he has stolen $1,000, may be the minister would say to him that to forgive this sin he has first to return the $1.000. Or if the sinner confesses he is living in adultery, the minister may ask him to stop the live of adultery, or a serious promise to do so, before forgiving his sin….


Jesus left us a divine Church, but a very human one on earth. If in your church there are no ministers of Christ with the power to forgive sins, it is a church without power, it is not the Church of Christ!. In the Church of Christ there are ministers of the Lord with the great power to forgive sins, or to retain them!.


Of course, God can still forgive sins directly!. But the usual plan of God, is to go to him through a minister of his Church. However in any case of emergency, when there is not available a minister of the Church, the sins can be forgiven by an act of contrition and trust in the Mercy of God, with the purpose of doing a normal Confession to a minister of the Church as soon as possible."


I always believed that if I confess my sins to God and repent that he will always forgive me. Do I have to confess my sins to a minister or have the intention to confess my sins to a minister eventually to truly be forgiven?


Please help explain this to me, thank you.

Well we see in scripture that we not longer need preists for Christ was our high priest. So therefore when the curtain was torn we can come boldy to the throne of God ourselves to obtain all we need from Our Father. When we confess our sins to one another it is because we all have sin to deal with. Scripture tells us this. We can confess our sins to another brother or sister in the Lord and they can confess to us so that we may pray for them and them for us. This gives us an accountability partner because then we can or they can ask how we are doing with this particular area. It is quite a neat thing. But for men having the power to forgive I don't go for.

 

[bennyk]

The site you listed above is from a Catholic perspective. Catholicism teaches that you must confess your sins to a priest, who then gives you penance to perform by which you then receive forgiveness.

The concept of confession and forgiveness is based on one's realization and acknowledgment of wrongdoing (sin). It's not just telling God (or to God through another person) what you've done, but it's about turning from that sin so you don't repeat it and a willingness to make restitution for the wrong done.

While that comes from God, we may not be receptive enough to the Holy Spirit's leading to know what to do. That's why I said it's helpful to confess our sins to one another (not necessarily to just ordained ministers) for accountability and guidance on how to proceed in making restitution and turning from your sin.

Now, God's forgiveness is absolute upon our confession and repentance. But there may also be human consequences to our wrong doing, such as your example in stealing the $1,000. Part of your repentance means also taking responsibility and accepting whatever human consequences of your wrong doing, such as you would probably be subjected to a criminal record for your theft. Now if you refuse to accept all responsibility and consequences, you have in essence negated your own forgiveness because it shows that you are not truly repentant.

Now, God's forgiveness is absolute upon our confession and repentance. But there may also be human consequences to our wrong doing, such as your example in stealing the $1,000. Part of your repentance means also taking responsibility and accepting whatever human consequences of your wrong doing, such as you would probably be subjected to a criminal record for your theft. Now if you refuse to accept all responsibility and consequences, you have in essence negated your own forgiveness because it shows that you are not truly repentant.

So say somebody murdered someone (this is completely hypothetical obviously, I didn't murder anyone), and they got away with it. Then they found Jesus, and believed in him with all their heart and felt horrible about it and turned away from their sin. Would they have to turn themselves in and accept a possible life sentence for what they had done in order to have truly repented?

This concept is troubling me, so please help me out if you can.

 

[JTLauder]

So say somebody murdered someone (this is completely hypothetical obviously, I didn't murder anyone), and they got away with it. Then they found Jesus, and believed in him with all their heart and felt horrible about it and turned away from their sin. Would they have to turn themselves in and accept a possible life sentence for what they had done in order to have truly repented?

This concept is troubling me, so please help me out if you can.

I appreciate the fact that you are struggling with this and that you really want to do what is right. It would only be fair to you to say that I am not a minister and have never studied theology indepthly to feel qualified to give you a definitive answer. It's good that you are seeking others for an answer, and I can only say that don't just rely on my words, but see what are other mature christians' response.

Having said that, let's re-address the situation as a question. If you are truly sorry for your sin/crime and have repented, what is holding you back from taking responsibility for it?

Could it be pride? Could it be fear? Could it be not wanting to submit to the human authorities? Whatever it is, be sure to not let it be something that creates another sin in your life.

As I said, there's God's law, justice and forgiveness, and then there's man's law, justice and forgiveness. Repenting to God and asking for his forgiveness may wash away your spiritual sin in God's eyes. But that does not erase whatever human crime you've committed and it does not free you from the human consequences of that crime/sin.

Does that mean that God will withhold forgiveness if you don't take the human responsibility for it? I can't say for certain absolutely. I see it as a heart condition, and your actions reflect what is truly in your heart regardless of how you feel or what you say.

What I do definitely know for certain, is that if you sense God is telling you to do something, such as turning yourself in to the police because that's the right thing to do, and you do not follow what God leads you to do, then you are disobeying God and that is sin. When God leads us to do something, it does not matter how hard it is, how much we hate it, or how little sense it makes, if we willingly don't do what God is telling us to do, that becomes unforgiven sin.

The fact that you are struggling so hard with this is very likely the Holy Spirit is trying to lead you to do something that you personally are fighting to avoid doing and you are looking for some escape that you might be able to get out of doing it.

All I can say to that is, putting aside what you want (or don't want), your fears, your desires, etc, and listen to what God is telling you that you need to do. Then it's just a matter of having to decide if you will follow God or if you will follow your own desires.

I truly hope that helps.

 

[mudstirrer]

I think people do need to confess to other Christians their sins. Jesus told us to confess to one another. We are ministers one to another and we can forgive others their sins in God's name.

Confession reconciles us with our brothers and it breaks the hold that unconfessed sin has on us.

You can confess directly to God but how often do you actually feel free from the guilt of that sin. Having a human friend to share in confession with is probably very helpful.

What do you think?

 

[Ben12]

But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate" (Rev. 2:6). "So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate" (Rev. 2:15).

When the Lord was showing John on Patmos what the seven churches would be like, He commended the church at Ephesus because they hated the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which the Lord also detested. In Pergamos, the third church, these deeds had become accepted doctrine, which the Lord also hated. For whatever reason the Lord chose not to let history record the precise teachings of the Nicolaitanes. He does, however, want us to understand just what this bunch of hooligans is about and therefore He has given us one infallible piece of evidence.

There are three named heresies among the seven churches — the Nicolaitanes, Balaam, and the woman Jezebel. None of these are identified under these names in church history, despite the frantic efforts of historians to tell us that Nicholas and Jezebel were real persons — even going so far as to blacken the good name of Nicholas of Antioch (one of the seven deacons of Acts 6:5), as the guilty party. It is said by some that Nicholas founded a movement of apostates who had pagan feasts and were most immoral in their behavior. They taught that in order to master sensuality one would have to know by experience the whole range of it first. Naturally this spawned the most bizarre and wanton orgies and other fleshly endeavors as a necessary step on the road to perfection. Thus the historians applied to them the two Old Testament names that symbolized such extravagances: Balaam and Jezebel. Since Balaam corrupted the people of Israel and thus conquered them, it was said that Nicholas did likewise. This group was supposedly forced out of Ephesus and found a place of establishment in Pergamos. But the problem about this belief is that it is not true. There is absolutely no history for it. It is at best tradition, but I view it as mere myth and folklore — a fairy tale!

The names are symbolic of the heresies they represent. When a name appears in the scriptures its meaning sheds light upon the spiritual reality behind the name. What was this thing God hated but man loved and would not stop doing? What are these Nicolaitanes? We’ll understand it when we know what the name means! The word comes from two Greek words: nikao, which means "to rule over or to conquer," and laos, which means "the laity or the people." Put these definitions together and you get a domineering ruling class within the body of Christ whose main agenda is to get the upper hand, conquer, subordinate, and subdue those who they consider "less gifted," "less knowledgeable," and "less qualified" than themselves!
I
n the religious world there are those who are called "clergy" and those who are called "laity." Where do you suppose these titles came from? "Laity, lay person, and layman" are all derivatives from the Greek word laos mentioned above! This is a title that has come to us from religious Babylon! The clergy are called the "reverends," "doctors," "pastors," "teachers," "evangelists," "overseers," "bishops," "ministers," "priests," "superintendents," "leaders," etc. These are often termed "men of the cloth" — men who wear special attire as a matter of identification as "clergy." These are the people who have the power, authority, and lordship! The rest of us poor folks are just "laity."

What were the "deeds" of the Nicolaitanes? They were exalting the "clergy" over the "laity"! The clergy class were dominating the laity, the people. The clergy were exalted whereas the laity were abased. The clergy became the authority, they became the fountain of all truth, they had the last word, and the laity were the "dumb sheep" that were instructed to follow and do what they were told. I once read that the saddest thing that happened to the church was when it stopped being a family and became an audience. Most people have missed the point completely; they conceive of the church as a drama wherein they are merely spectators. In this drama the minister is the principle actor, God is his prompter whispering His lines in his ear — should he chance to forget them — and the congregation are the critics who pass their judgment upon the performance when all has been said and done. This can be perceived by the comments of many people to the minister (actor) who has now made his way to the front door to receive the acclamation of the spectators. "Good job, preacher! You really did a good job today. You really let ‘em have it!" Or the comment, "The choir was really beautiful today." The whole idea expressed seems to be that it was a drama; it was a performance, a show, and you express your acceptance and your approval. You are the critic and it is up to you to pass your judgment.