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Did you explain how this view does not render this part of the Lord's Prayer obsolete:
Forgive us our sins
as we forgive those who sin against us.
Why would Jesus instruct you to pray for forgiveness of sins if they have already been forgiven? Doesn't make sense to me, but perhaps I missed something.
Did you explain how this view does not render this part of the Lord's Prayer obsolete:
Forgive us our sins
as we forgive those who sin against us.
Why would Jesus instruct you to pray for forgiveness of sins if they have already been forgiven? Doesn't make sense to me, but perhaps I missed something.
Did Jesus Die yet? was his blood shed when He said that? i'll wait?
Ok, So you confess your sins to receive something that you already have? so If I give you a dollar you put in in your pocket. the next day can you come to me with that dollar still in your pocket. Will you ask for the same dollar I gave you yesterday? or will you simply thank me for giving you the dollar!!!?As a believer our forgiveness is based on what God has done for us in the sending of His Son who died and rose again; that is objectively true because of what God has done already, this is appropriated to us through faith which is given to us by the Holy Spirit in the Means of Grace. As St. Paul says, that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The Gospel is efficacious to accomplish what it promises, apart from ourselves.
We don't confess our sins to merit God's forgiveness, we confess our sins because in faith we trust in what Christ has done for us, and that it is in Him alone that we are forgiven, justified, and saved.
Because we continue, while being alive and present in this body of death with sin in our members, to be sinners the struggle against the flesh continues throughout this life--that is why we are invited to come before God and confess, to receive the forgiveness which is ours in Christ, freely, by the grace of God. The idea that I "do" a thing once and then that's it isn't Christian teaching. For one, salvation isn't about us doing anything, but what God has done once and for all and what He gives us through the Means He has established; and for another salvation is about our being in Christ, redeemed and rescued by Him and the continuing working of God upon us even until the Final Day, at the resurrection of the dead. What God has done for the whole world on Mt. Calvary, is what God is doing through the Means of Grace, and it is He who keeps us and holds onto us even through death and judgment until we are raised up to that everlasting life in the age to come.
I don't confess my sins to receive a "new" forgiveness of sins. I confess my sins to receive the same forgiveness which is freely given and freely found in the death and resurrection of Christ our God. It is the same forgiveness, the same hope, the same Gospel, the same eternal life, the same salvation.
-CryptoLutheran
I think this is a point where Catholics and Lutherans differ. From Trent, session 22:I think this may accidentally be going too far in the other wrong direction by suggesting forgiveness is not already. Christ's death is the forgiveness of all sin, not just some; all past and future sin is forgiven and crucified in His body and defeated by the power of His resurrection as He has overcome sin, death, hell, and the devil.
Consider the Holy Eucharist in which there is anamnesis--remembrance. The Eucharist is not a re-doing of Christ's once and for all sacrifice, the Eucharist is the bringing into the present of the once-and-for all sacrifice of Christ.
It is not past or present; it is past and present. The timelessness of Christ's glorious atonement extends in all directions through time and covers all.
-CryptoLutheran
the non believing don't confess their sins to God?
So you were always a believer?
I wasn't! I was a sinner!!
and I was ministered to by some faithful believers and God used them men to touch my Heart and as a non believer I confessed my sins and was converted!
I am a new creation in Christ and I am no longer a sinner!!!!!
There is a lot of teaching out there Saint that is corrupting our brothers and sistersI think this may accidentally be going too far in the other wrong direction by suggesting forgiveness is not already. Christ's death is the forgiveness of all sin, not just some; all past and future sin is forgiven and crucified in His body and defeated by the power of His resurrection as He has overcome sin, death, hell, and the devil.
Consider the Holy Eucharist in which there is anamnesis--remembrance. The Eucharist is not a re-doing of Christ's once and for all sacrifice, the Eucharist is the bringing into the present of the once-and-for all sacrifice of Christ.
It is not past or present; it is past and present. The timelessness of Christ's glorious atonement extends in all directions through time and covers all.
-CryptoLutheran
Do you believe that the commands and words of the Incarnate Deity were only relevant in the few years prior to His death and resurrection?
-CryptoLutheran[/QUOTE
No that's not what i'm saying at all!! stay within the context of what I was saying
Ok, So you confess your sins to receive something that you already have? so If I give you a dollar you put in in your pocket. the next day can you come to me with that dollar still in your pocket. Will you ask for the same dollar I gave you yesterday? or will you simply thank me for giving you the dollar!!!?
I think this is a point where Catholics and Lutherans differ. From Trent, session 22:
Jesus Christ, our Lord and God, when he was about to offer himself once on the altar of the Cross to God the Father, making intercession by means of his death, so that he might gain there an eternal redemption, since his priesthood was not to be extinguished by death, at the last Supper, ‘on the night that he was handed over’, left to his beloved Spouse the Church a visible sacrifice, such as the nature of man requires, by which the bloody sacrifice achieved once upon the Cross might be re-presented and its memory endure until the end of the age, and its saving power be applied to the remission of those sins which are daily committed by us.
absolutely!! I believe a brother already said this but i'll say it again.. Jesus wasn't speaking of "Positional forgiveness" in that scripture He was speaking of "Relational Forgiveness" His Blood is a free gift!!! there is nothing that we can do to get that! He gives it to us by our faith in him. So by you saying you have to "do" something in order to get something goes against the definition of Grace. Jesus wants us to forgive each other because if we don't it will effect our communion with God not our Salvation.Are these rhetorical questions by any chance?
If you feel like you need to be saved everyday "fine" but I don't I was saved when I accepted Jesus as my Lord. and when I confess at night it sounds like this "Lord I fell short today and I ask that you continue to work in me through the power of your Holy Spirit I thank you for the sacrifice and blood of Christ which was shed for my sins".... I don't have to ask for forgiveness "I thank him because I am already forgiven...God Bless...God's mercy is not a dollar bill. And the Prophet has spoken, "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; His mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is Your faithfulness." (Lamentations 3:22-23)
-CryptoLutheran
Ok, So you confess your sins to receive something that you already have? so If I give you a dollar you put in in your pocket. the next day can you come to me with that dollar still in your pocket. Will you ask for the same dollar I gave you yesterday? or will you simply thank me for giving you the dollar!!!?
If you feel like you need to be saved everyday "fine" but I don't I was saved when I accepted Jesus as my Lord. and when I confess at night it sounds like this "Lord I fell short today and I ask that you continue to work in me through the power of your Holy Spirit I thank you for the sacrifice and blood of Christ which was shed for my sins".... I don't have to ask for forgiveness "I thank him because I am already forgiven...God Bless...
If you feel like you need to be saved everyday "fine" but I don't I was saved when I accepted Jesus as my Lord. and when I confess at night it sounds like this "Lord I fell short today and I ask that you continue to work in me through the power of your Holy Spirit I thank you for the sacrifice and blood of Christ which was shed for my sins".... I don't have to ask for forgiveness "I thank him because I am already forgiven...God Bless...
Lets try to understand EACH of us are part of this body. And we all see in part.
I agree yet not. Well.. I once read in the margin of the word said.. if our heart convicts us we wont get anything from God. I got up and told God I QUIT! I said my heart convicts me 24/7. I reach for the door and He asks "what is righteousness?" I start to turn and say "righteousness is right standing with God. He then asks "how do you get righteousness?" I answer "by believing in Jesus". It was like a dam broke and I could see. I cried and cried...
What you say is true. There is no sin Jesus didnt die for. Yet.. our SPIRIT was made new. Our spirit which was born of God can not does not sin. As it is written in scripture. But we still can sin. If we read Rev Jesus to the seven angels of the seven churches.. then and also through out time.
Yeshua did die for all of the worlds sins. Who is going to tell them? It is finished. Yet.. that sinner MUST repent. The price has been paid for all. But they still must repent. To do a 180. We of Christ in this flesh still sin. Yes.. that sin we just did.. we just ADDED to the price He paid. But.. we STILL must confess our sins. I love my kids. There is nothing they can do that will stop my love or them being my kids. Yet.. they can still hurt me and those around them.
If we confess our sin.. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to forgive us and cleans us from all unrighteousness. Our SPIRIT was made new..not this flesh. We can still freely SIN. And even though that SIN was paid for.. we must confess it. How many times do we read our brother Paul talking about himself being a sinner still? "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."
How can PAUL get this wrong miss it? I mean he didnt say I WAS.. he said "I am". yes.. price was paid ONCE and forever. But.. you are STILL free and can sin today and miss it and open doors to things you should not. And that sin that YES was paid for has STILL a price which is death. That sin you did today freely.. must be confessed. It that sin.. has no hold on me..nor will it in any way keep me from living forever with my lord...we still can hurt Him.. we still can add to that sin He paid for.
Greetings my brothers and sisters in Christ. I come to you in Love and in the power of the Holy Spirit. There is a issue in the church today that I need to address and i'm asking for your views (backed by scripture of course). After you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and you like 2 Cor 5:17 states "Become new" do you still confess your sins to God seeking forgiveness? I know the truth, I just wanna see what others have to say on the topic....
So you've been saved. Now you can do anything you want with no remorse, guilt, or conviction? Also, you never sin now? Ever? Do you even have need for the Holy Spirit at this point?
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