Conferance

[DaSeminarian]

Can anyone tell me prior to 2001 and the liberal presidency was there a conservative president with mission programs? Were the programs working? Where are all the Lutherans going?
Is this why Billy Graham called the Lutheran Church a sleeping giant?

I still would not call Gerald Kieschnick a "Liberal" Lutheran Synod President. He is maybe more moderate than what we have had in the past, but he still stands behind the Confessions and has spoken out against women's ordination and homosexuality as a sin.

Where I part with him was regarding the incident at Yankee Stadium in 2001. All things considered, ABLAZE is not the worst Missions initiative, movement etc. It's just not the best either.

I gotta go to class. Catch y'all later.

 

[DaRev]

I still would not call Gerald Kieschnick a "Liberal" Lutheran Synod President. He is maybe more moderate than what we have had in the past, but he still stands behind the Confessions and has spoken out against women's ordination and homosexuality as a sin.

Let's also mention that he is also in favor of a marriage ammendment and is staunchly pro-life.

It's not his theology that I have issue with, it's his politics.

 

[DaSeminarian]

Let's also mention that he is also in favor of a marriage ammendment and is staunchly pro-life.

It's not his theology that I have issue with, it's his politics.

And that is exactly what I was pointing out. The whole Yankee Stadium debacle was a political mess more than a theological one in the end. Yes it began as a theological issue regarding Syncretization, but it became a political hot issue because of how it was handled.

 

[Studeclunker]

And that is exactly what I was pointing out. The whole Yankee Stadium debacle was a political mess more than a theological one in the end. Yes it began as a theological issue regarding Syncretization, but it became a political hot issue because of how it was handled.

This is most certainly true. It also illustrates where one's political viewpoints and policies can demonstrate what one truely believes. Just because G.K. speaks conservative doesn't mean he is conservative. The LCMS is at it's core a conservative sub-denomination of the greater Lutheran church. Ablaze and these other external programmes are watering down that basic conservative core. I've found that people who claim to me 'political moderates' are hiding something. Eventually they expose their true beliefs and policies, just as G.K. has done.

 

[pastorjimg]

The other side wants to be careful in how the mission initiative is carried out. They want to make sure that they are putting out the best possible message they can with a good theological basis. I see groups like Jesus First and Daystar being in the first group.

I see the confessionals being in the second group.
We all want to see the Great Commission carried forward, but there are limitations to how it should be done. I think the "Critical Event" needs to be re-defined and given a more concrete definition and more strict. If that means that ABLAZE is unable to meet their quota so be it. I would rather see 100,000,000 people baptized then just given the word. Though the Holy Spirit is the only one able to work when the word is given, there is at this time no need to follow up with those who have received God's word from us.

Desem: Well put. This kind of talk engages people into conversation. You expressed desire for outreach and gave some suggestions on how you would have done things differently. If we are going to make any progress with people we have to approach these things like this. When others say the Ablaze is antiChristian and the LCMS has sealed its faith- other people will dismiss them like Chicken Little.


As an aside- you will find in ministry that often times as pastor you are right and know the best way to do things. The key is being able to work with people to show them the right path- in what ever area. People won't automatically follow you because you are a pastor.

As "they" say- it's not what you say but how you say it. You will also learn that in marriage

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Why be a member of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod if you are liberal or moderate? We are a conservative Lutheran church. Keep trying to change the LCMS and it'll break, rinse and repeat.

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

When Kieschnick was presenting the program to one of our seminaries, he was asked what is particularly Lutheran about the Ablaze! program on which we are spending $100 million dollars (all while pulling our missionaries from the field). He was UNABLE TO ANSWER.

Did you know that the program, which cost $500,000 to DEVELOP (that's logo and focus group type stuff -- a disgusting waste if you ask me) was developed by the same people who do Willow Creek's stuff?

If the Ablaze! movement actually DID anything to proclaim the Gospel, that might be one thing. But there is a BIG difference between talking ABOUT the Gospel and PROCLAIMING the Gospel. There is a big difference between a rah-rah session and enabling people rightly to distinguish between Law and Gospel.

Could anyone point out somewhere in the Ablaze material a GOOD proclamation of Law and Gospel or where repentance is taught properly or if anyone could show us anything remotely LUTHERAN about the Ablaze! movement -- anything remotely comparable to the Lutheran Confessions and Luther's Works; Smalcald Articles, the Formula of Concord, let alone the Large Catechism or Luther's Admonition Concerning the Sacrament.

 

[Ioustinos]

Pardon me if this seems out of place but I wanted to ask a question if I may.

I listen to KFUO Issues Etc., a LCMS talk show, and I heard that Dr. Paul Maier of Western Michigan University was elected 2nd Vice President of the LCMS this past week during the conference in Houston, TX.

My question is: I believe that Dr. Maier is a conservative Christian leader and so is the entire leadership going towards a liberal bent or just the current president?


Blessings,

Justin

 

[DaRev]

While I'm not well aware of Rev. Dr. Maier's "political" bend, I know that Rev. John Wohlrabe was elected 3rd VP and he's more conservative "politically" than is Rev. Dr. K.

 

[filosofer]

[FONT= "Book Antiqua"]
Yes. Dr. Maier would be on the conservative side, but not on the right wing side. He is well-respected generally, although maybe not with those on the far right. Brilliant scholar.

I had the privilege of meeting him last year at our convention (I was Bible teacher, and he was keynote speaker).

In Christ's love,
filo
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