Confederate Flag

[Inspired]

I've seen one black man wear it on a t-shirt at VMI. Yet these are anamolies and not what most blacks seem to think of the Confederate flag.

It's not just blacks who see the flag as a sign of oppression. Too many frats still use the confederate flag to show their racism, and are not at all shy about admitting it.

 

[IrishJohan]

Am I a racist because I own a copy of the Stars and Bars?

Not unless I am too...

 

[IrishJohan]

It's not just blacks who see the flag as a sign of oppression. Too many frats still use the confederate flag to show their racism, and are not at all shy about admitting it.

Too true, yet there are many people in the South who do not view it as a sign of oppression. I'm one of them even if I understand why others do.

 

[Lillithspeak]

Since te agreement is that a significant number of people still do see the confederate flag as a racist symbol, why is it so hard to just not use it? Again, isn't this the least we can do for our brothers and sisters who see it as racist? Why not just be decent about it?

 

[IrishJohan]

Since te agreement is that a significant number of people still do see the confederate flag as a racist symbol, why is it so hard to just not use it? Again, isn't this the least we can do for our brothers and sisters who see it as racist? Why not just be decent about it?

I don't force the Confederate flag on anyone. Tell me, given the Highland Clearances, the Irish Famine, etc., how can you not hold similiar views of the Union Jack? Have any problems being called British?

 

[praying]

I don't force the Confederate flag on anyone. Tell me, given the Highland Clearances, the Irish Famine, etc., how can you not hold similiar views of the Union Jack? Have any problems being called British?

Are you a racist because you own the flag, I guess that can be answered by how you define its' representation.

As an African American I find the flag offensive, it is the defining symbol of slavery, whether it was orginally created for this reason is irrelavent, just like to many countires, particualrily in the mideast, the US flag represents economic oppression and intervention and the support of despots for this country's gain.

As far as the flag being publically displayed, i.e. on government buildings and such, I think it is wrong, however as much as I may not like it I would defend your right (maybe not to the death ) as a citizen to own it, and display it privately (your home in or out). And yes I believe it belongs on the confederate states web site, it is part of that history.

 

[Godzman]

There was a topic issue on the confederate flag few days ago. Saying that the confederate flag (known as the Naval Jack) was a symbol of slavery and racism. The flag has been abused by racist groups, often in an attempt to gain favor with Southerners who love their flag, the flag does not lose its honorable history. It was born from a powerful Christian symbol, the Cross of St. Andrew, and developed for use by troops defending their homes against an aggressor in a war they preferred not to fight. As the soldier's flag, it represents the honor and valor of those who answered the call of duty.

Abuse of the flag by any other group is just that abuse and a distortion of its true meaning and its real symbolism.

But, if critics argue that any Confederate flag is a symbol of bigotry and racism, because it has been displayed by racist groups like the Ku Klux Klan, then they must also be prepared to pull the Stars and Stripes off of every flag pole in the nation and the Christian flag out of every church, because these flags have been equally abused by racist groups. The KKK regularly flies the Stars and Stripes and Christian flags, often in far larger numbers than the Confederate battle flag, though nobody calls for the abolition of these abused symbols.

Every flag known to man has its goods and bads. For example, take a look at American flag. The flag symbols that the American's killed, raped, even slaved the Native Americans since 1600s. The American's killed over millions of buffalo just to starve the indians so they can steal their land. The confederate flag isnt alone on its bad reputation.

I hate to say it, but I don't like the confederate flag and I have ancestors who fought on the south side.

But if anyone wants to fly it, it is their choice and theirs alone.

 

[KyleSmith7117]

OOPS!! Sorry about mhatten for that post

 

[clinzey]

If a flag or other symbol is perverted from its original use, at what point does it become acceptable to ban it? Does it's perversion by some groups forever negate it's original meaning?

 

[IrishJohan]

Are you a racist because you own the flag, I guess that can be answered by how you define its' representation.

It's not that big a deal to me. I view it as a symbol of history and resistance to an overreaching Federal government. The US flag is more important to me and is the one flying above my front door.

As an African American I find the flag offensive, it is the defining symbol of slavery, whether it was orginally created for this reason is irrelavent,

Understandable.

As far as the flag being publically displayed, i.e. on government buildings and such, I think it is wrong, however as much as I may not like it I would defend your right (maybe not to the death ) as a citizen to own it, and display it privately (your home in or out).

Commendable. As far as its being displayed on government buildings, I too would oppose this in general. I presume you are referring to its former display on the South Carolina Statehouse? I would agree with you on that, and would go further: I believe it should be removed from state flags as well. Why? For the very reason you give in opposing the flag: it is not a benign symbol for all the people of the state in question. Actually, "most of the people" might be better to say since it's virtually impossibl not to offend at least one person no matter what you do. Obviously easy for me to say since I live in Virginia and neither of these are a problem here that I am aware of. Having said all this, I believe this is a decision for the people of the state in question and not my business.

And yes I believe it belongs on the confederate states web site, it is part of that history.

LOL! I guess it would be appropriate there as well (although I presume there is more than one). I was referring to civil war sites like battlefields. Right next to it and a little higher should be the US flag.

 

[IrishJohan]

You are being very closed minded, you think that people who own the confederate flag are racist.

I believe you misread his post. I didn't intepret this from his words at all.

 

[praying]

You are being very closed minded, you think that people who own the confederate flag are racist.

No I beg to differ, if owning the flag to you represents the glory days of the ol' south, forget going back as far as slavery let's just go back to German Shepards attacking peaceful demostrators, or George Wallace standing on the steps of Ol' Miss blocking the entrance for Africam American citizens, or killing little girls by blowing up churches, then yes you are a racist.

If as you say it represents just the soldiers who fought and certain other things then no, but...

There are some problems with that becuase no matter what it was created for it certainly embodies more than just that:

Flag Links:
Ole Miss

Selma

Selma March

I am not close minded, I am realistic though

 

[Uzi_4_U]

I have a Confederate Flag as a souvenir from Charleston, South Carolina. I hope that does not make me a racial bigot.

 

[stray bullet]

Now can we acknowledge that our black brothers and sisters might not want this flag honored? Is it just beyond us to accept that after everything our ancestors did to their ancestors, we owe them this? Is it just too darn much to ask, to not have this symbol be a part of their everyday life? I didn't own any slaves and neither did any of you. My ancestors probably didn't either, but it's the one act of decency, regarding their history, that we could all support to honor their pain, a small act of redemption and honor if you ask me. Why do so many refuse to even do this?

Dishonesty is never the best policy. It is an attempt to pervert history and villify an entire group of people.

Is it fair to insult millions of Confederate soldiers just to please the ignorant and uneducated?

If you could go back to the war and ask the soldiers what they were fighting for, do you think they'd tell you millions of whites were fighting over a race they considered inferior?

The southern soldiers would tell you that he was fighting for his homeland and to preserve the ideals of the united states from the corrupt country it became. A northern soldier would also talk about patriotism and saving the united states.

 

[Xen_Antares]

The South didn't want a war with the North, it wanted to leave the Union peacefully with all its lands and rights intact. The firing on Ft. Sumter was foolish, but consistent with what they wanted.

That really makes no sense, why shoot at a potential enemy and turn your supporters in that country against you, then claim you want peace. Just wait, I am willing to bet without a war Lincoln would have been thrown out of office with in a year.

The Confederacy was hardly "non democratic". White men over 21 did vote just as they had in the North (women and non-whites didn't have the vote in either, though women had a vote in some state elections). Elections were held for the Confederate Congress at least twice before the end, and for president once.

There was no voting for President at all in the south. According to the Confederate constitution a President was only allowed to serve one six year term. Davis was handed the office in 1861, and the south fell before then. There may have been congressional elections, maybe one or two, I dont think the progression of the war allowed for a second one.

Yes and no. It is good the South lost because extreme states' rights were defeated, slavery was abolished, and we do not live today in a continent divided by two countries bitterly opposed to one another. It is bad however that the result was a Federal government so centralized that the Founders' ideas in the Constitution for federalism was destroyed.

That didn't happen until FDR. As much as I admire him he changed the form of government, made it stronger. Of course I cant complain because it did wonders for my state, its government was corrupt and did nothing to help the coal miners and the families. When Elanor visited the state she was outraged to see American children dying of third world diseases, and only hours away from DC. The Federal government has been the states best friend.

Absolutely. Hence one reason Davis, Lee and others mourned Lincoln's assassination (besides the fact this was the first American assassination of a president).

Reconstruction would have been 10 fold better under Lincoln, we wouldnt have the problems we have today, and racial relations would be alot better. Lee was also worried that the radicals were going to break the treaty with him, in fact they did threaten to but had a defiant Grant who they feared might just lead the army into Washington and take power in a coup.

 

[IrishJohan]

There was no voting for President at all in the south. According to the Confederate constitution a President was only allowed to serve one six year term. Davis was handed the office in 1861, and the south fell before then. There may have been congressional elections, maybe one or two, I dont think the progression of the war allowed for a second one.

I only have time to answer this one for now. Davis was elected provisional president by the Confederate Constitutional Convention in February 1861 under the Provisional Constitution of the CSA. He was elected president under the permanent Constitution of the CSA through elections along with members of the Conefederate Congress in November 1861. Recall that like the North, the South used the Electoral College system wherein voters actually selected electors who then voted for president (South Carolina's legislature chose their state's electors). Davis faced no opposition in the elections, and most of the Confederate Congressman faced little as well. Davis was inaugurated as president on February 22, 1862 meaning that if the Confederacy had survived he would have served until 1868. Congressional elections were again held for what turned out to be the last time in 1863. This election showed the divisions within the Confederacy as opposition to Davis arose and some won election to the Congress.

 

[Real Corona]

You all probably think the Civil War was about slavery don't you.

 

[Xen_Antares]

You all probably think the Civil War was about slavery don't you.

Though Slavery wasnt the sole factor, it played a large part of it. To say otherwise is ignorant and revisionist, there are no two ways about it.

 

[Real Corona]

No I'm sorry, but even Abe Lincoln himself said that if slavery would save the Union he would have kept it in place. He was concerned with only one thing, keeping the Union together and not having it go all Yugoslavian on us.

 

[KyleSmith7117]

I'm soooo sorry for misreading mhatten, forgive me...