Confabulation

[DaisyDay]

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/5429516-trump-confabulation-dementia-signs/

Confabulation is sometimes called “honest lying,” because the person doing it genuinely believes what he’s saying, even if it is obviously and patently false. A person confabulates when they are telling completely invented stories that don’t provide them any particular tangible benefit. In other words, it’s not like lying to try and get out of a speeding ticket.

Confabulation isn’t misremembering a date or forgetting something. The mistakes of memory we are all subject to become confabulation when people remember false information in vivid detail — detail so vivid and complete that people who don’t know otherwise often believe what they are hearing is true.

In older people, confabulation is one of the clearest early signs of dementia. The day you witness someone confabulate is often the day you are forced to admit to yourself that a beloved parent needs help, and that all the little slips and oddities you’ve been seeing can no longer be rationalized away. ​

It's always been a quandary to deal with President Trump's constant lying as we try to determine whether he knows he's lying or whether he believes the obviously untrue things he says. Is it 25th Amendment time yet?

 

[Pommer]

Trump was hired to shake things and see what fell off the tree to make the tree stronger.
I say, leave him be to do the job he was hired for.

 

[DaisyDay]

Trump was hired to shake things and see what fell off the tree to make the tree stronger.
I say, leave him be to do the job he was hired for.

Burn it all down?

 

[mark46]

To be clear, the folks who vote to remove Trump now would CERTAINLY have supported removing Biden.

 

[mark46]

Burn it all down?

for sure

After all, Trump's policies had the economy and stock market in free fall after announcing his tariffs in April. The depression is almost here. Inflation is higher than the highest rate under Biden. The international community has stopped trading with us and has stopped buying our bonds. Foreign companies have refused to build in the US and to help refurbish US factories. And surely, countries would refuse to open their markets to more US goods.
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SQUINT! Did any of this happen?
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I am a life-long, yellow dog Democrat.

However, as far as I can see, Democrats are simply being delusional. The House USED TO BE a lock for Democrats in 2026. It may still happen. But those elections are over a year away. In the meantime, the strategy of opposing everything that Trump says or does will simply make Democrats even less and less credible and move their worst ever approval ratings even lower.

 

[Always in His Presence]

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/5429516-trump-confabulation-dementia-signs/

Confabulation is sometimes called “honest lying,” because the person doing it genuinely believes what he’s saying, even if it is obviously and patently false. A person confabulates when they are telling completely invented stories that don’t provide them any particular tangible benefit. In other words, it’s not like lying to try and get out of a speeding ticket. ​

​

Confabulation isn’t misremembering a date or forgetting something. The mistakes of memory we are all subject to become confabulation when people remember false information in vivid detail — detail so vivid and complete that people who don’t know otherwise often believe what they are hearing is true. ​

​

In older people, confabulation is one of the clearest early signs of dementia. The day you witness someone confabulate is often the day you are forced to admit to yourself that a beloved parent needs help, and that all the little slips and oddities you’ve been seeing can no longer be rationalized away. ​

It's always been a quandary to deal with President Trump's constant lying as we try to determine whether he knows he's lying or whether he believes the obviously untrue things he says. Is it 25th Amendment time yet?

No it is not 25th Amendment time any more now that the 41 times it was discussed during his first term

 

[Always in His Presence]

Btw I voted as I did just to mess with people

 

[JSRG]

A better case can be made, especially in retrospect, for invoking the 25th Amendment against Biden than against Trump.

That said, I don't think it would be proper to invoke it against either. It's supposed to be used when the President is legitimately incapable of doing their job. Biden and/or Trump might be doing a bad job, but that's different from what the 25th Amendment is supposed to handle.

In any event, it also doesn't matter. The 25th Amendment requires the Vice President and the majority of the chiefs of staff to agree to depose the President. That didn't happen with Biden, and it's not going to happen with Trump right now. Furthermore, if they invoke it and the President objects, then it requires 2/3 of each house of Congress to go through with it. If these things didn't happen with Biden, they're not going to happen with Trump, unless something crazy happens like Trump falling into a coma somehow.

This part of the 25th Amendment was set up to be deliberately difficult and require strong agreement specifically because it's only supposed to be done when the President isn't merely doing a bad job, but actually is legitimately incapable of doing the job, like if the President is comatose or kidnapped by ninjas. Such is not the case here. And even if someone wants to argue this is the case, it isn't going to be invoked, so what does the question really matter?

 

[Bradskii]

It's supposed to be used when the President is legitimately incapable of doing their job.

I swear that this is not exaggeration for effect, but in my umpteen decades on this planet, taking a close interest in politics for most of them, I have not known a person on either side of politics who was as incapable and less qualified for the position he or she holds than Trump. Daylight comes second.

Even the politicians I despised (Thatcher in the UK will be familiar to most, Abbott and Morrison in Australia not so much) were, I will concede, incredibly smart and extremely capable for the positions they held (Prime Minister in each case). Trump in comparison...well, there is no comparison to be made in truth.

 

[loveofourlord]

A better case can be made, especially in retrospect, for invoking the 25th Amendment against Biden than against Trump.

That said, I don't think it would be proper to invoke it against either. It's supposed to be used when the President is legitimately incapable of doing their job. Biden and/or Trump might be doing a bad job, but that's different from what the 25th Amendment is supposed to handle.

In any event, it also doesn't matter. The 25th Amendment requires the Vice President and the majority of the chiefs of staff to agree to depose the President. That didn't happen with Biden, and it's not going to happen with Trump right now. Furthermore, if they invoke it and the President objects, then it requires 2/3 of each house of Congress to go through with it. If these things didn't happen with Biden, they're not going to happen with Trump, unless something crazy happens like Trump falling into a coma somehow.

This part of the 25th Amendment was set up to be deliberately difficult and require strong agreement specifically because it's only supposed to be done when the President isn't merely doing a bad job, but actually is legitimately incapable of doing the job, like if the President is comatose or kidnapped by ninjas. Such is not the case here. And even if someone wants to argue this is the case, it isn't going to be invoked, so what does the question really matter?

trouble with any argument against biden is doubly so against trump, trump has shown multiple signs of at best narcacism, and at worst dementia.

 

[DaisyDay]

A better case can be made, especially in retrospect, for invoking the 25th Amendment against Biden than against Trump.

Biden was persuaded to step down on his own.

That said, I don't think it would be proper to invoke it against either. It's supposed to be used when the President is legitimately incapable of doing their job. Biden and/or Trump might be doing a bad job, but that's different from what the 25th Amendment is supposed to handle.

In any event, it also doesn't matter. The 25th Amendment requires the Vice President and the majority of the chiefs of staff to agree to depose the President. That didn't happen with Biden, and it's not going to happen with Trump right now. Furthermore, if they invoke it and the President objects, then it requires 2/3 of each house of Congress to go through with it. If these things didn't happen with Biden, they're not going to happen with Trump, unless something crazy happens like Trump falling into a coma somehow.

This part of the 25th Amendment was set up to be deliberately difficult and require strong agreement specifically because it's only supposed to be done when the President isn't merely doing a bad job, but actually is legitimately incapable of doing the job, like if the President is comatose or kidnapped by ninjas. Such is not the case here. And even if someone wants to argue this is the case, it isn't going to be invoked, so what does the question really matter?

If Trump is, as seems apparent to many, well into noticeable dementia, then he will not be getting better, only worse. He loses track of what he is saying while he is saying it. For instance, when a reporter asked him about the documents found in the burn bags, he pivots to a stock Epstein reply:

He begins, once he hears the question, with a joke about an appointee named "burn bags", indicating that he did hear the question, but eventually declares it to be a "Democrat hoax".

This new, increasing cognitive decline is on top of his refusal this term to hear, let alone read, daily intelligence briefs. Does a president need to know what is going on in order to becapable of doing the job or is intuition sufficient?

 

[mark46]

Biden was persuaded to step down on his own.

If Trump is, as seems apparent to many, well into noticeable dementia, then he will not be getting better, only worse. He loses track of what he is saying while he is saying it. For instance, when a reporter asked him about the documents found in the burn bags, he pivots to a stock Epstein reply:

He begins, once he hears the question, with a joke about an appointee named "burn bags", indicating that he did hear the question, but eventually declares it to be a "Democrat hoax".

This new, increasing cognitive decline is on top of his refusal this term to hear, let alone read, daily intelligence briefs. Does a president need to know what is going on in order to becapable of doing the job or is intuition sufficient?

Let's be clear. Trump is one of the worst presidents ever. HOWEVER, why folks want Vance to step in is frankly beyond my comprehension.

 

[mark46]

Biden was persuaded to step down on his own.

Biden should have kept his pledge and stepped down after the midterms. It took a very long time and lots of threats to get him to step down. And yes, I do believe that the 25th Amendment was discussed.

And just BTW, there is one man to blame for us having trump as president. That man is Biden. We knew all we needed to know about Trump. His most obvious character trait is transparency.

The country wanted neither Trump nor Biden. Had Biden stepped down at his state of the union in 2023, we would have had open primaries in both parties and the country would have rejected the two old men.
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Just BTW, folks should remember that it takes a majority of the cabinet to remove Trump. Trump makes sure of loyalty in every pick he makes.

 

[durangodawood]

Biden should have kept his pledge and stepped down after the midterms. It took a very long time and lots of threats to get him to step down. And yes, I do believe that the 25th Amendment was discussed.

And just BTW, there is one man to blame for us having trump as president. That man is Biden. We knew all we needed to know about Trump. His most obvious character trait is transparency.

The country wanted neither Trump nor Biden. Had Biden stepped down at his state of the union in 2023, we would have had open primaries in both parties and the country would have rejected the two old men.
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Just BTW, folks should remember that it takes a majority of the cabinet to remove Trump. Trump makes sure of loyalty in every pick he makes.

Step down after 2 years in office?

You mean announce he'd leave after his full 4 years, right?

 

[DaisyDay]

Let's be clear. Trump is one of the worst presidents ever. HOWEVER, why folks want Vance to step in is frankly beyond my comprehension.

Given the limited choice of JD Vance and someone sliding into dementia, apparently, I'll have to choose the former because at least he might be held accountable for any crimes he may commit - and he may actually not commit any. Trump's criminality is a separate issue from his apparent dementia.

Biden ...

This particular thread is about Trump's confabulation. Biden is off-topic. Thank you for your future cooperation on this point.

 

[DaisyDay]

Trump brags about his uncle, Dr. John Trump having taught the unabomber.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/16/politics/fact-check-trump-uncle-unabomber

Trump was speaking at a Pennsylvania event about energy and innovation when he said he had to “brag just for a second” about his uncle’s intelligence. After wrongly saying his uncle was “the longest-serving professor in the history of MIT” (he was one of the longest-serving but not the very longest) and wrongly saying his uncle’s three university degrees were “in nuclear, chemical, and math” (two were in electrical engineering and one was in physics), the president claimed, “Kaczynski was one of his students.”


He went on to tell a story about having asked his uncle about what Kaczynski was like. “‘I said, ‘What kind of a student was he, Uncle John?’ Dr. John Trump. I said, ‘What kind of a student?’ And then he said, ‘Seriously, good.’ He said, ‘He’d correct – he’d go around correcting everybody.’ But it didn’t work out too well for him.”


For two big reasons, this story could not possibly be accurate.
​

 

[mark46]

Given the limited choice of JD Vance and someone sliding into dementia, apparently, I'll have to choose the former because at least he might be held accountable for any crimes he may commit - and he may actually not commit any. Trump's criminality is a separate issue from his apparent dementia.


This particular thread is about Trump's confabulation. Biden is off-topic. Thank you for your future cooperation on this point.

OK, we shouldn't compare Trump to any past uses or considerations of the amendment.

If we are to have no reference points, I won't post in this thread any more.

 

[mark46]

Step down after 2 years in office?

You mean announce he'd leave after his full 4 years, right?

Yes, of course.

Biden promised that he would serve one term. After 2 years, he should have confirmed that fact and that he wouldn't stand for re-election.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I'm not a doctor, so as long as Trump can keep telling us that Dr. Hannibal Lecter still supports him, I guess he's okay.

 

[DaisyDay]

OK, we shouldn't compare Trump to any past uses or considerations of the amendment.

But you did not point to any confabulation on Biden's part. Merely saying, "But Biden!" is off topic. Do you have anything to say about not Biden?

If we are to have no reference points, I won't post in this thread any more.

The reference points are in the OP.

Yes, of course.

Biden promised that he would serve one term. After 2 years, he should have confirmed that fact and that he wouldn't stand for re-election.

This thread is about Trump, not Biden. You had your say, and then some, about Biden. There are a plethora of threads already about Biden and whether or not he was fit for office. This thread is about Trump, confabulation and the 25th Amendment.

From Mr. I Went to Wharton: