Condemning others to hell for sin?

[Paulos23]

How loving would God be to FORCE you to be with Him? If a husband locked and boarded up a house so that his wife and kids couldn't leave, would that be loving or kidnapping?

How loving is he to offer eternal peace vs. eternal pain?

I would rather take the void of nothingness if he is like that.

 

[drstevej]

I would rather take the void of nothingness if he is like that.

You're making a counter offer?
Not a good idea.

Job 38:
2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!

 

[Paulos23]

Then there's no reason for you to question it.

No, there is no reason to accept it blindly.

personally, that's why people come to faith because He draws them unto Himself and shows them that they need a Savior. If you're one of those proverbial people who think your "doo doo" don't stank, then you will probably never see the need for being saved.

But those who realize that God is perfectly HOLY, and who realize that they sin even when they don't know they are sinning so there's no way under their own power to ever COMPLETELY deal with their sin, will humbly chase after the ONLY ONE WHO can save!

I get more reward here by being nice and helping others rather then being (or pretending) to be living sin free for some afterlife that there is no evidence for.

Your sin is your own. Why would a HOLY God love that which is against His holiness?

If he allows it, then he has the problem of judging people without clear rules. And by rules I mean religions. Within Christianity alone there are many hundreds (by some counts thousands) of denominations, many who are at odds with each other. How do you tell which ones to follow?

And what if God isn't a Christian? What then?

That's rejection.

That is reality. No evidence, no reason for me to believe. If there is a God then he knows what it would take to make me believe. He just has to do it.

How is she pushing you when YOU chose to jump?

If God is the popular girl who I don't dance with, she is pushing me over the cliff (hell) because I don't dance with her (believe in him). I am not doing anything to her other then saying no, which then I get a death sentence? Talk about harsh.

 

[Paulos23]

You're making a counter offer?
Not a good idea.

Job 38:
2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!

Hey, if I end up in front of God after death and says I am to go to hell for not believing; I would say (with no reservations) "Why didn't you show yourself more? Why didn't you give examples to believe you existed?".

 

[Paulos23]

One thing that logically puzzles me is when I hear a fellow Christian say to another person, Christian or non, "X is a sin! You are going to hell!"

I am Christian and have been condemned for being gay, and had verses thrown at me. However, Christianity is very clear that we do not earn our way to Heaven. We are giving eternal life through Christ, not of our own doing. Christ commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves, and only through active loving of others do we love, serve and know God. 1 John 4:7-8. Look it up.

So, does it make sense to tell someone, "murders go to hell!" or "X goes to hell because they sin!" when the truth is, according to the bible, that all of us are sinners. If we are forgiven, is it right to say to someone, "I may not be perfect, but I'M forgiven, and YOU aren't, so there!!!"

Should we thank God for his forgiveness and mercy by exhalting ourselves, rather than Christ? Should we gloat about being forgiven, something that we don't deserve, when it is offered to all, and knowing that Christ died to take away the sins of the world?

It isn't loving your neighbor, nor God, but acting like a hypocrite whom Christ condemned.

Anyone able to explain this?

Before I get to far off track, let me get back to the OP. It doesn't make sence to condem others because they are not living their life like you think it should. I would suggest you ignore such and still work towards being a good person.

I know you are a man of faith and I would only add that this is between you and your God. No one else has a right to say what your God wants from you. You should be able to ask your God and get an answer.

 

[Sojourner1]

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The OP may be discussed as long as you don't discuss the topic of homosexuality. The OP mentioned being gay, but the topic of this thread cannot focus on homosexuality. You can discuss sins in general and whether or not it is ethical to condemn other people to hell based on their personal choices (which others consider to be a sin). If this thread becomes a discussion about homosexuality it will be closed.

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[drstevej]

Hey, if I end up in front of God after death and says I am to go to hell for not believing; I would say (with no reservations) "Why didn't you show yourself more? Why didn't you give examples to believe you existed?".

He would say you are going to hell because of your sins. Not believing is simply ignoring or rejecting His offer of pardon.

As to showing Himself more... he has (the Creation screams Creator) yet you put your fingers in your ears to avoid accountability.

As to examples... He did (the resurrection of Jesus). You wanted Him to walk across your swimming pool?

 

[good brother]

If God is the popular girl who I don't dance with, she is pushing me over the cliff (hell) because I don't dance with her (believe in him). I am not doing anything to her other then saying no, which then I get a death sentence? Talk about harsh.

The "popular girl" is not a great analogy of who God is. It worked for the poster's first sentiments toward you but we are moving into an area where it is not that alignable. God is not just another person like me or you. He is our Maker. The Bible uses the analogy of Him being the Potter, and we are the clay. In other words, we are not on equal ground with God as far as who we are and who He is. He is infinite, we are finite. He exists outside the confines of time, we are slaves to time. He is all powerful, we are not. He is wholy holy, we are filthy rags. I could go on and on about how we differ from God but I hope you get the point. Anyway, He made us and set up certain rules by which we are to live by. We broke those rules and brought about the punishment for breaking those rules. That set us on the path to being eternally separated from Him. He loved us so much so that He made a way for us to get out of that eternal separation, enter Jesus Christ. God said that we must trust in Jesus as our LORD and Savior or we will die.

If you want to continue to use the "cliff" part of the previous analogy, think about it this way. God commanded us that we are not to make noise that would trigger an avalanche because we are stuck between avalanche ready slopes on one side and a sheer cliff on the other. If we made noise we would trigger the avalanche and in our running away from the avalanche we would have to run towards the cliff where we will fall off and meet our certain death. We are kinda "hosed" either way if we ever make noise that triggers an avalanche. Well, we wanted to raise a little cain anyway, so we disregarded what God had said about not making noise and we all became a bunch of rabble rousers. The avalanche came down and we started towards the cliff. God, in His inifintie mercy, made a way for us to escape the avalanche and the cliff by building a bridge that spanned the gap of the consequences of our actions. That bridge is Jesus Christ. No one can escape the avalanche or the cliff unless they cross over the bridge that is Jesus Christ.

Think about it, someone is driving along and comes to a bridge over water. Instead of crossing the river on the bridge, they decide to ford the river in their car on their own path. They drown because of their stupidity. Can the family of the driver hold the bridge maker liable for not making a bridge that spanned every inch of the river from it's stream beginnings to is wide delta mouth? No, the bridge maker made a perfectly good bridge that is safe and everyone can cross safely. If you choose not to cross on the bridge and drown and die because of your lack of wanting to conform to the bridge maker's guidelines, it does not make it the bridge maker's fault for your death.

I hope this makes some sense to you, I would really like to see you on the other side of the bridge.

Love in Christ Jesus, GB

 

[Paulos23]

I was going to respond to all the claims for God, but I realize that I am turning this thread into a GA thread, something the OP I am sure did not intend. I will take any questions in mail if anyone wishes to continue the discussion. With that I will bow out.

Beanieboy, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[ToBeInChrist]

I am interested in the context of such condemnation.

What are people's experiences, here? F2f, online, in school, in church, among family or friends or neighbors, etc.?

 

[Skaloop]

I am interested in the context of such condemnation.

What are people's experiences, here? F2f, online, in school, in church, among family or friends or neighbors, etc.?

Personally, I've never had anyone tell me I was condemned to hell outside of this forum. Worst I ever had in person was someone tell me that as an atheist I had no morals and as such would be murdering and raping and stealing to my heart's content. That was refuted when I pointed out that despite being an atheist, I've neither done so nor had the desire to do so.

 

[drstevej]

Personally, I've never had anyone tell me I was condemned to hell outside of this forum. Worst I ever had in person was someone tell me that as an atheist I had no morals and as such would be murdering and raping and stealing to my heart's content. That was refuted when I pointed out that despite being an atheist, I've neither done so nor had the desire to do so.

You finally got the right diagnosis! That's great, because there is a cure.

 

[Skaloop]

You finally got the right diagnosis! That's great, because there is a cure.

There's nothing to cure, though. I've said it before and I'll say it again; God is the ultimate placebo.

 

[drstevej]

There's nothing to cure, though. I've said it before and I'll say it again; God is the ultimate placebo.

Facing one's denial is the first step. Especially, for recovering sin-o-holics.

 

[Skaloop]

Facing one's denial is the first step. Especially, for recovering sin-o-holics.

If I ever meet one, I'll let him/her know.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Jesus said whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe in Him is condemned already because they have not believed in the name of G-d’s one and only Son. (John 3:18). And because of their stubbornness and unrepentant heart are storing up wrath against themselves for the day of G-d's wrath (Romans 2:5) and will be without excuse when they stand before G-d in judgment (Romans 1:18-32). No one is going to be mocking G-d when they stand before Him in judgment. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living G-d (Hebrews 10:31).

 

[Zaac]

No, there is no reason to accept it blindly.



I get more reward here by being nice and helping others rather then being (or pretending) to be living sin free for some afterlife that there is no evidence for.



If he allows it, then he has the problem of judging people without clear rules. And by rules I mean religions. Within Christianity alone there are many hundreds (by some counts thousands) of denominations, many who are at odds with each other. How do you tell which ones to follow?

And what if God isn't a Christian? What then?



That is reality. No evidence, no reason for me to believe. If there is a God then he knows what it would take to make me believe. He just has to do it.



If God is the popular girl who I don't dance with, she is pushing me over the cliff (hell) because I don't dance with her (believe in him). I am not doing anything to her other then saying no, which then I get a death sentence? Talk about harsh.

Paulos, you feel free to walk yourself right into an eternity in the Lake of Fire. No one is going to intellectually convince you otherwise as no one is supposed to.

As I said before, folks go to hell all the time because they think their measure of "good" is what matters.

 

[Zaac]

Personally, I've never had anyone tell me I was condemned to hell outside of this forum. Worst I ever had in person was someone tell me that as an atheist I had no morals and as such would be murdering and raping and stealing to my heart's content. That was refuted when I pointed out that despite being an atheist, I've neither done so nor had the desire to do so.

People tend to want to tiptoe around the truth. The Bible says 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John 3:16-18

As a person who rejects Jesus Christ, you are ALREADY condemned. It simply is the truth of God's word. And as was said, people don't get saved if they don't realize that there is something from which to be saved.

It's kinda like those bad tv movies where disaster is impending because of some meteor or tsunami, etc. And the government knows but rather than cause a panic and give folks the chance to escape impending death, they don't tell them and they go on not knowing what's about to take place.

There's about to be a disaster. A lot of folks will go to an eternal lake of fire. So Christians better start speaking up and telling them that they are already condemned but there is a way to escape the condemnation.

 

[StThomasMore]

One thing that logically puzzles me is when I hear a fellow Christian say to another person, Christian or non, "X is a sin! You are going to hell!"

I am Christian and have been condemned for being gay, and had verses thrown at me. However, Christianity is very clear that we do not earn our way to Heaven. We are giving eternal life through Christ, not of our own doing. Christ commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves, and only through active loving of others do we love, serve and know God. 1 John 4:7-8. Look it up.

So, does it make sense to tell someone, "murders go to hell!" or "X goes to hell because they sin!" when the truth is, according to the bible, that all of us are sinners. If we are forgiven, is it right to say to someone, "I may not be perfect, but I'M forgiven, and YOU aren't, so there!!!"

Should we thank God for his forgiveness and mercy by exhalting ourselves, rather than Christ? Should we gloat about being forgiven, something that we don't deserve, when it is offered to all, and knowing that Christ died to take away the sins of the world?

It isn't loving your neighbor, nor God, but acting like a hypocrite whom Christ condemned.

Anyone able to explain this?

The explanation is right in Romans 6:1

grace in conversion is glorified by putting a stop to the reign of sin, and not by increasing its power, which would be done by continuing in it; grace teaches men not to live in sin, but to abstain from it; add to this, that it is owing to the want of grace, and not to the aboundings of it, that men at any time abuse, or make an ill use of the doctrines of grace

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Go and sin no more.
Jesus

Maybe that quote was inserted by a rabbi.