Computer for friend. To buy or not, and W7 or W8?

[Unix]

I have a new friend whom I have met a couple of times IRL and with whom I can share my interest for language and books. She works a lot and the train is expensive, or else we would have met more times already. She prefers to read paper books. However, we live in Sweden and to order printed matter costs a lot, both because of shipping and because good recent books are rarely cheaper as printed matter.
I have bought her electronic books (I haven't told her about that yet, it would be a birthday surprise). I could return the books for a refund.
She currently doesn't have a computer that is suitable for connecting to the internet. She doesn't know a lot about computer technology.
Should I buy a computer, install the books on it, and give her?
Should I try to get a Windows 8 or Windows 7 computer? Windows 8 would last longer, and possibly be safer and easier to use. She hasn't used computers a lot for a while, she's probably not even overly familiar with Windows 7. Hew own computer is from 2006 and at first she didn't know which operating system it had, and I haven't asked her since she started it again. She has very valuable proprietary files on her own computer, so it's not suitable to connect to the internet. I've advised her not to connect the old computer to the internet and she was hesitant to connect it to the internet herself too.

I don't make more money than her.

I don't know of any other way to give her a bunch of books that big. It feels like if I would choose a few select printed matter books for her that she would think that each book is extremely carefully selected and she would expect them to blow her away. Most of the electronic books I bought came in a bundle, so I could tell her the excuse that not all of them are the best because of the bundling. I would feel better if she would be able to choose what to read among many books.
For the sum of a refund of the electronic books and instead of buying the hardware and Windows, it would be impossible to get as many printed matter books, especially not as recent ones.
The books in the bundle are not extremely recent, they are about 10 years old and older, but few of them are very old. They cover a couple of interesting books of the Bible, and there's also three Mennonite commentary volumes in the bundle - that feels good as it's hard to get her read such commentaries in some other way. Additionally I would get her a really good Bible dictionary electronically, which is prohibitively expensive to get as printed matter. I think the Bible dictionary would be the best part. But to buy a computer, return the bundle, and give her just a couple of Bibles, a Bible dictionary and a few free mass-market books would not feel as good.

The weakness of the bundle is that it doesn't contain enough on the Old Testament. She's very interested in the Old Testament.

An incentive for me to buy a computer for her, is that she is almost hinting that someone should install a computer for her, and that she has been considering an iPad instead of a computer. Another friend of mine bought an iPad (even though she has a desktop too) and is not that pleased with it compared to the cost but uses it and also reads electronic books on it (but not ones purchased by me).
I'm not sure how I would install a computer for her in any other way than how I've described above.
I have one desktop computer myself which I don't use all that much, but I think she would experience it as slow - starting the program to read the electronic books is pretty slow.
Oh, and the program to read the electronic books demands a lot from the disk.

 

[awitch]

If the primary purpose is reading, a full desktop is going to be expensive, is not portable, and not very comfortable for reading. If you do go that route, I would suggest going with Windows 8; it's use is inevitable. I don't know if you can still get 7 in the home market.

iPads are neat but I agree that they are way overpriced and not worth it in my opinion.

How about compromising with an ebook reader like a Kindle? My wife has one and she can read books comfortably, it's very portable, is much cheaper than a laptop/iPad, and she can access email and the web (but she needs to be connected to a wireless network to do so because there is no expensive data plan). You do not need to be online to read books after you download them, and they are very easy to use. You also don't have to worry much about viruses, updates, and maintenance.

 

[Shane R]

Windows 8 runs much faster than 7 but can be challenging to learn for someone who is not experienced with a smart phone. The OS was designed to be a dual purpose system for laptops and phones.

If she prefers the function of a tablet the Samsung offerings are good and significantly cheaper than Ipad.

 

[Unix]

I thought it was self-evident that I'm only considering used computers. Fast used laptops (SSD) are expensive over here, at least $300 and hard to find at that price. After You've searched for them for a while You can get fast or very modern (Windows 8) desktop computers for $105-$182 over here (although not both fast and Windows 8):

If the primary purpose is reading, a full desktop is going to be expensive, is not portable, and not very comfortable for reading. [...] I don't know if you can still get 7 in the home market.

No thanks, those are worthless. The functionality on a desktop is far superiour. The books I've bought and am buying are somewhat expensive, why discard the functionality I'm paying for?:

How about compromising with an ebook reader like a Kindle? My wife has one and she can read books comfortably, it's very portable, is much cheaper than a laptop/iPad, and she can access email and the web (but she needs to be connected to a wireless network to do so because there is no expensive data plan). You do not need to be online to read books after you download them, and they are very easy to use. You also don't have to worry much about viruses, updates, and maintenance.

 

[Unix]

She is using a smartphone. I've never had a smartphone myself though and never will, even so I bought a Windows 8.1 license used (not OEM) which I'm about to install on my own desktop:

Windows 8 runs much faster than 7 but can be challenging to learn for someone who is not experienced with a smart phone. The OS was designed to be a dual purpose system for laptops and phones.

Way too expensive:

If she prefers the function of a tablet the Samsung offerings are good and significantly cheaper than Ipad.

 

[Unix]

I've bid $223 for this computer which I'm considering to buy tomorrow for the friend. It's the cheapest Windows 8.1 computer with 7,200 rpm disk and adequate graphics (many used computers have inadequate graphics memory and a graphics card so old that it would not support W8 and the monitor resolutions W8 requires) that I've found so far:
Windows 8.1 PRO VL 32-bit
Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 with Zalman CPU fan
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 EDIT: .com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ProductID=2745 ARCHIVE.ORG from almost 7 years ago
RAM: DDR2
Graphics: PowerColor RADEON HD 5850 1GB PCS+ Cost $259 on September 30. 2009, supports full DirectX 11
PSU: Fractal Design 650W
Chassis: ANTEC P180 WHITE
HDD: 250GB WD 7,200rpm IDE? (that's what it says in the ad but I think it's a mistake, it must be either SATA I or SATA II)

What do You think of the above computer? I would have to put max RAM the first thing I do. How much RAM would the OS and motherboard support, is it 3.5GB (the other friend has a 32-bit XP-computer with 3.5GB RAM (besides the better 64-bit W7 7,200rpm computer I've bought her))? Defects: cosmetic scratches on the chassis, and USB-ports in the front missing.
There is also a Linux computer (Ubuntu 12) for sale much cheaper with 4GB RAM and slightly faster 32-bit CPU (Intel Core 2 Duo E8400) with 20" HD monitor and loudspeakers included but I would have to install Windows and I have no spare Windows licenses other than Vista.

Previously edited by Unix; 3rd June 2014 at 11:07 PM local time. Reason: found motherboard specs via http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/

 

[Qyöt27]

HDD: 250GB WD 7,200rpm IDE? (that's what it says in the ad but I think it's a mistake, it must be either SATA I or SATA II)

There's no reason the drive couldn't be IDE; the motherboard has the connection for it (specifications on Newegg).

I would have to put max RAM the first thing I do. How much RAM would the OS and motherboard support, is it 3.5GB (the other friend has a 32-bit XP-computer with 3.5GB RAM (besides the better 64-bit W7 7,200rpm computer I've bought her))?

The motherboard supports up to 8GB, but a 32-bit OS artificially limits this to a maximum of 4GB (without overhead; it'll be less than 4GB in real-world usage), and at least in Windows' case, processes are limited to 2GB on 32-bit (the /3GB kernel flag and /LARGEADDRESSAWARE are band-aids to get around this for individual processes, but 4GB is still the hard upper limit).

The other important thing to note is the RAM speed. Maxing out the RAM will likely not account for much if you're using slower speeds. And prices for DDR2 RAM to max that motherboard out are going to be expensive for the purpose (a 4GB kit of DDR2-1066 is listed at €91.19 on Crucial's European site).

and slightly faster 32-bit CPU (Intel Core 2 Duo E8400)

All Core 2's are 64-bit CPUs, not 32-bit.

 

[Qyöt27]

Also, Windows 8 and its .x versions only need Classic Shell installed to avert the whole 'smartphone desktop' thing. It'd be nearly indistinguishable from Windows 7, so there's little reason IMO to not go with Win8.

 

[Unix]

The softwares for reading books that would be used on the computer, are 32-bit.

Maxing out the RAM will make a huge difference. I have a laptop which used to have 1.6GB RAM available, I upgraded to 7.6GB available and hybrid drive with 8GB SSD part, it made a clearly noticeable difference for using one of the softwares for the books (the other software didn't yet have a native Windows version at the time). Sounds expensive, I don't even have that much money for this right now, I will check whether I can find 4GB RAM upgrades kits cheaper than:

processes are limited to 2GB on 32-bit (the /3GB kernel flag and /LARGEADDRESSAWARE are band-aids to get around this for individual processes, but 4GB is still the hard upper limit).

The other important thing to note is the RAM speed. Maxing out the RAM will likely not account for much if you're using slower speeds. And prices for DDR2 RAM to max that motherboard out are going to be expensive for the purpose (a 4GB kit of DDR2-1066 is listed at €91.19 on Crucial's European site).

The seller didn't accept my bid, I had to raise to $235½ and I'm gonna be hard on the seller and not up my bid, depending on the RAM price I will go and meet the seller and tell him face-to-face that the $235½ bid is my final bid and leave if he doesn't accept it. I'll show him papers how much I have on my bank accounts.

 

[Unix]

Four 1GB PC2-6400 cost list price $51 at a computer workshop that also sells used computers and (often new) parts. They are probably new and if used they are checked. Since I've been dealing with them regularly I will most probably get the price down to $46. No private persons nearby are currently selling any:

(a 4GB kit of DDR2-1066 is listed at €91.19 on Crucial's European site).

 

[Unix]

The computer probably has two 1GB RAM right now, so in that case it costs $25½ to upgrade to 4GB.
A company that pays VAT is selling a very small format desktop computer - they have about 20 of them - maybe fewer, it costs $315 with 80GB SSD, W7, 4GB RAM. It used to cost $1,128 over here back in 2010. It's Lenovo, Athlon X2 BE-2350 2.1 GHz, ATI Radeon X1200 graphics, DVDRW, 6 USB 2.0, and it consumes 45W (unclear if that means just the CPU - which it vaguely says in the ad or the whole central unit).

Which one is a better purchase? To buy the small Lenovo I would have to try to borrow $90 from mom (which I would either use to pay the books which are on a payment plan, leaving about $10 left altogether, or use a part of it for the Lenovo).

 

[Unix]

The seller offered me to re-install W8.1 64-bit from scratch, not an upgrade from 7, on a less worn 320GB S-ATA (might be II) (he includes the IDE HDD with the purchase and I might put it in my oldest Windows2000 computer one which I have just one book to replace the small old disk - but probably there will be compatibility issues), and he connected me with a seller of RAM nearby who sells me two 4GB for $45, which I can add to the computer myself, which brings the total RAM to 10GB.
The price the seller asks (which doesn't include the extra RAM but does include the RAM currently in the computer), is $255, and I accepted the offer.
I will probably have to do the update to Update 1 myself, at least I offered to do the updates myself but I'll see what exactly I get. Also in order to get it done today so that I can return home with the computer because I meet the seller in 2 hours from now:

The computer probably has two 1GB RAM right now, so in that case it costs $25½ to upgrade to 4GB.

 

[Unix]

The seller looked a while for the 7,200rpm 320GB HDD but couldn't find it. So this purchase is now delayed by 65 minutes. Instead he offered me a 7,200rpm 500GB HDD that has been used as a server and is not that worn and has been off for a while, on which he installs the Windows 8.1. We agreed on that I install all the Windows updates. I only have to pay $7½ extra. So the final price with the RAM upgrade I'm installing is $262½:

The seller offered me to re-install W8.1 64-bit from scratch, not an upgrade from 7, on a less worn 320GB S-ATA (might be II)

 

[Unix]

There's another, cheaper computer being offered to me, $150½ for:
W8.1 64-bit installed from scratch
Celeron D 3.2 GHz
RAM: 2GB, probably DDR2, probably easily upgradable
Graphics: Nvidia quadro fx540
5,400rpm HDD

The final price I paid for the Core 2 Duo computer was $262 exactly. (He was also about to give me a free keyboard but we forgot about, I could go and pick it up later.) Plus I purchased the extra RAM.

Would the Celeron D computer be a better choice? Did the Celeron CPU:s develop? Is Windows 8.1 fast on Celeron D? There would be additional cost both for upgrading the disk and the RAM. I wonder where all the 10,000rpm disks are - perhaps a brand new one would be necessary? With a brand-new 10,000rpm HDD the speed might be equivalent. The difference would the be that the Celeron D computer doesn't have as good cooling and fans.

The Core 2 Duo computer has good cooling and fans except of the HDD. I'm thinking of adding some kind of HDD fan but I'm a little unsure how I will manage to install it, real HDD fans are very expensive.

There is also a computer with quad core CPU and Windows 7 for little less than I paid, the CPU in it is great but the graphics is not.
Several days ago there was a quad core with Windows 8.1. I contacted but the ad was removed shortly thereafter and I never got a reply on the email. It would have been at some distance by commuter train. It had 4GB RAM and 64-bit OS but the front looked very ugly and I'm sure the cooling is horrible.

 

[Unix]

I now created a thread at the forums for one of the softwares that would be used on the computer, asking specifically which computer would be faster for running the software: Celeron D 3.2GHz &WD Black HDD or Core2Duo 2.66GHz:

There's another, cheaper computer being offered to me, $150½ for:
W8.1 64-bit installed from scratch
Celeron D 3.2 GHz
RAM: 2GB, probably DDR2, probably easily upgradable
Graphics: Nvidia quadro fx540
[...]

The final price I paid for the Core 2 Duo computer was $262 exactly. [...] Plus I purchased the extra RAM.

Would the Celeron D computer be a better choice?

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I have a new friend whom I have met a couple of times IRL and with whom I can share my interest for language and books. She works a lot and the train is expensive, or else we would have met more times already. She prefers to read paper books. However, we live in Sweden and to order printed matter costs a lot, both because of shipping and because good recent books are rarely cheaper as printed matter.
I have bought her electronic books (I haven't told her about that yet, it would be a birthday surprise). I could return the books for a refund.
She currently doesn't have a computer that is suitable for connecting to the internet. She doesn't know a lot about computer technology.
Should I buy a computer, install the books on it, and give her?
Should I try to get a Windows 8 or Windows 7 computer? Windows 8 would last longer, and possibly be safer and easier to use. She hasn't used computers a lot for a while, she's probably not even overly familiar with Windows 7. Hew own computer is from 2006 and at first she didn't know which operating system it had, and I haven't asked her since she started it again. She has very valuable proprietary files on her own computer, so it's not suitable to connect to the internet. I've advised her not to connect the old computer to the internet and she was hesitant to connect it to the internet herself too.

I don't make more money than her.

I don't know of any other way to give her a bunch of books that big. It feels like if I would choose a few select printed matter books for her that she would think that each book is extremely carefully selected and she would expect them to blow her away. Most of the electronic books I bought came in a bundle, so I could tell her the excuse that not all of them are the best because of the bundling. I would feel better if she would be able to choose what to read among many books.
For the sum of a refund of the electronic books and instead of buying the hardware and Windows, it would be impossible to get as many printed matter books, especially not as recent ones.
The books in the bundle are not extremely recent, they are about 10 years old and older, but few of them are very old. They cover a couple of interesting books of the Bible, and there's also three Mennonite commentary volumes in the bundle - that feels good as it's hard to get her read such commentaries in some other way. Additionally I would get her a really good Bible dictionary electronically, which is prohibitively expensive to get as printed matter. I think the Bible dictionary would be the best part. But to buy a computer, return the bundle, and give her just a couple of Bibles, a Bible dictionary and a few free mass-market books would not feel as good.

The weakness of the bundle is that it doesn't contain enough on the Old Testament. She's very interested in the Old Testament.

An incentive for me to buy a computer for her, is that she is almost hinting that someone should install a computer for her, and that she has been considering an iPad instead of a computer. Another friend of mine bought an iPad (even though she has a desktop too) and is not that pleased with it compared to the cost but uses it and also reads electronic books on it (but not ones purchased by me).
I'm not sure how I would install a computer for her in any other way than how I've described above.
I have one desktop computer myself which I don't use all that much, but I think she would experience it as slow - starting the program to read the electronic books is pretty slow.
Oh, and the program to read the electronic books demands a lot from the disk.

She's going to want a tablet or something like a Kindle/Nook, most likely. Setting her up with a custom PC would be overkill and misdirected. My wife stopped using hers years ago and we finally just got rid of it. Don't take her back to the 2000s!


She's gonna want to read wherever she is. Reading on a fixed computer will be very limiting for her. My wife reads in bed, on her chair, in the car. Do what's best for her, not what would be most fun for you to shop for (yes, I've read all your responses here) and setup. I'm an old PC tech and love building PCs. But I have come to value tablets, ereaders, and laptops very much.

 

[Unix]

The Bible study softwares (Logos and Accordance) have extremely limited functionality on iPad or Android. A Windows 8 tablet is impossible to afford. Also, the VAT is so high over here that even the pretty simple tablets cost some and not yet worth their price IMO.
She knows many languages, I think she would appreciate Accordance 10 on a re:

she's gonna want to read wherever she is. Reading on a fixed computer will be very limiting for her.

I have talked to her about tablets. She definitely prefers printed matter despite the high shipping from the U.S. or U.K.