Compression of Time?

[Quasiblogo]

Wow, a lot of knowledge/ability to formulate arguments here. Way out of my field. Anyway, thanks all for feedback to my hill of beans question.

 

[topher694]

What if God, within the package of an instantaneous creation of an expanding universe by the spoken word, took the initial six "days", each ions of time, and within his own sovereignty, in a sort of "creation motion", compressed these vast increments of time so that (time within time), events truly happened over millennia of centuries and yet at the same time happened within the measurement of human days? The 7th day: there would no need to be compressed, as the Lord ceased from his works.

I am no science fiction buff, except for having read Asimov's trilogy and the Lord of the Rings. The paragraph above: I just don't see it as fanciful. And, wouldn't it be just like our heavenly Father for his sovereignty to escape the realm of explanation or discovery by humanity so that God may be God in all things?

I am not unsettled if the idea is wrong, and I'm not holding my breath that it is correct. In the interim, I'm more swayed by Old Earth and direct creation of humans via Adam/Eve.

If God created everything that means He created time as well. And we currently know time is not rigid, but relative. So, it seems this would be in the realm of possibility. However, truth be told there is no way for us to know for sure, the Bible simply doesn't go there. As someone else said, it's not a science book. Guess we'll just have to wait to find out until we are with Him.

 

[topher694]

It could be that Adam and Eve lived in Paradise for millions of years before they sinned. Cain did seem to fear people around him, after he killed his brother and God called him to account. While if he was on his own why would he have cared about what people thought? It wouldn't be part of his experience and therefore a non issue. The Scripture did not deem it important to tell us how long it was before Adam and Eve sinned, just that they did.

As you said scripture doesn't tell us, but I have heard one theory that I really like. That is: Adam and Eve sinned on the 10th day. This is how 10 became the number of atonement. Is as good as anything else out there...

 

[Rachel20]

That's basically what Gerald Schroeder, a nuclear physicist from MIT, argues using relativity and time dilation. His discussion on the age of the universe is below for those interested.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

 

[JacksBratt]

What if God, within the package of an instantaneous creation of an expanding universe by the spoken word, took the initial six "days", each ions of time, and within his own sovereignty, in a sort of "creation motion", compressed these vast increments of time so that (time within time), events truly happened over millennia of centuries and yet at the same time happened within the measurement of human days? The 7th day: there would no need to be compressed, as the Lord ceased from his works.

I am no science fiction buff, except for having read Asimov's trilogy and the Lord of the Rings. The paragraph above: I just don't see it as fanciful. And, wouldn't it be just like our heavenly Father for his sovereignty to escape the realm of explanation or discovery by humanity so that God may be God in all things?

I am not unsettled if the idea is wrong, and I'm not holding my breath that it is correct. In the interim, I'm more swayed by Old Earth and direct creation of humans via Adam/Eve.

What if.... He did it exactly the way He said that He did.. in exactly 6 literal days...

What would that do to your faith in Him and His word?

Do you doubt that He could do it as He said?

 

[Quasiblogo]

What if.... He did it exactly the way He said that He did.. in exactly 6 literal days...

What would that do to your faith in Him and His word?

Do you doubt that He could do it as He said?

It would be a wonderful thing if indeed 6 literal days, and I think it's unwarranted for one to be emphatic to the point of saying, "No way." I also don't think it's unreasonable to
believe that "days" is eons. I'd place the either/or of this in the same category as
baptism (sprinkle/dunk/in-between).

 

[JacksBratt]

It would be a wonderful thing if indeed 6 literal days, and I think it's unwarranted for one to be emphatic to the point of saying, "No way." I also don't think it's unreasonable to
believe that "days" is eons. I'd place the either/or of this in the same category as
baptism (sprinkle/dunk/in-between).

What would give you any reason to believe that it isn't 6 literal days?

 

[GirdYourLoins]

Well, no, they don't. You can't get rid of the Fall and be Christian.

Theistic Evolutionists have various ways of incorporating the Fall. The simplest way is to say that, at one point, God turned two pre-humans into humans (Adam and Eve), who then fell as described in Genesis.

I dont buy this theory, the Bible says God made man and from man made woman. If they were pre-humans Adam wouldnt be man as we know to be created by God.

I once saw a lecture on creation by a Christian scientist and he started with a key statement. It was that the undermining of the literal interpretation of Genesis is a satanic ploy to lead people away from God. For me, this is a far more believable hypothesis than pre-human and trying to make creation fit the theory of evolution.

 

[nolidad]

What if God, within the package of an instantaneous creation of an expanding universe by the spoken word, took the initial six "days", each ions of time, and within his own sovereignty, in a sort of "creation motion", compressed these vast increments of time so that (time within time), events truly happened over millennia of centuries and yet at the same time happened within the measurement of human days? The 7th day: there would no need to be compressed, as the Lord ceased from his works.

I am no science fiction buff, except for having read Asimov's trilogy and the Lord of the Rings. The paragraph above: I just don't see it as fanciful. And, wouldn't it be just like our heavenly Father for his sovereignty to escape the realm of explanation or discovery by humanity so that God may be God in all things?

I am not unsettled if the idea is wrong, and I'm not holding my breath that it is correct. In the interim, I'm more swayed by Old Earth and direct creation of humans via Adam/Eve.

Well we can add this to the scores of other hypotheses that try to explain starlight and deep space/time in a six day creation viewpoint!

 

[Quasiblogo]

Well we can add this to the scores of other hypotheses that try to explain starlight and deep space/time in a six day creation viewpoint!

Ha! I'm not sophisticated enough for that. Guess I was lucky enough to intersect with those scientific terms.

 

[nolidad]

Ha! I'm not sophisticated enough for that. Guess I was lucky enough to intersect with those scientific terms.

There sare two valid thewories that can explain deep space/time. One conceived by Einstein (that the speed of light at 186,000 mps) is just for one way travel. It is possible that light travels one way instantaneously but returns at a speed that causes the speed to equal 186,000 mps. The math is far beying me.

Then their is the theory proposed by a german physicist named Rheimann who (once agian the math is beyond me) showed that light even from the furthest point in the universe would take no longeer than about 16 years to reach everywhere! The latter has been rejected but never refuted.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

What if God, within the package of an instantaneous creation of an expanding universe by the spoken word, took the initial six "days", each ions of time, and within his own sovereignty, in a sort of "creation motion", compressed these vast increments of time so that (time within time), events truly happened over millennia of centuries and yet at the same time happened within the measurement of human days? The 7th day: there would no need to be compressed, as the Lord ceased from his works.

I am no science fiction buff, except for having read Asimov's trilogy and the Lord of the Rings. The paragraph above: I just don't see it as fanciful. And, wouldn't it be just like our heavenly Father for his sovereignty to escape the realm of explanation or discovery by humanity so that God may be God in all things?

I am not unsettled if the idea is wrong, and I'm not holding my breath that it is correct. In the interim, I'm more swayed by Old Earth and direct creation of humans via Adam/Eve.

Yeah, he directly created Adam and Eve because Paul referred to Adam as the first Adam; Jesus, the second Adam. Your theory is interesting. God the all-powerful Creator certainly could have done it that way. Maybe, when we get to heaven, we'll find out.

 

[Quasiblogo]

Yeah, he directly created Adam and Eve because Paul referred to Adam as the first Adam; Jesus, the second Adam. Your theory is interesting. God the all-powerful Creator certainly could have done it that way. Maybe, when we get to heaven, we'll find out.

Totally agree, Bruce. Why, being conformed to the Image of Christ is the greatest adventure and privilege of them all.

 

[Quasiblogo]

There sare two valid thewories that can explain deep space/time. One conceived by Einstein (that the speed of light at 186,000 mps) is just for one way travel. It is possible that light travels one way instantaneously but returns at a speed that causes the speed to equal 186,000 mps. The math is far beying me.

Then their is the theory proposed by a german physicist named Rheimann who (once agian the math is beyond me) showed that light even from the furthest point in the universe would take no longeer than about 16 years to reach everywhere! The latter has been rejected but never refuted.

Thank you Nolidad. I bailed out of pre-Med physics way back when, but the info today does make me want to get books written by Christian scientists.

 

[Radagast]

That's basically what Gerald Schroeder, a nuclear physicist from MIT, argues using relativity and time dilation. His discussion on the age of the universe is below for those interested.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

Thank you.

I was trying to remember his name.

 

[Jermayn]

Here's my take on it.

-Evolution requires death, and death was not a part of God's plan for humankind, so Adam and Eve were created from the dust by God, just as he said. Not from some pre-human species.

-We know Seth was born when Adam was 130 years old, so the fall of man occurred withing the first 130 years of creation and before Cain was born. Otherwise not every human would have inherited a sin nature.

-Adam died at the age of 930 years old. There are also genealogies in the Bible that can be traced back to Adam, so we know there was no time period where any human had lived on earth for eons.

I believe God created Earth as we know it in 6 literal days, but there is evidence that it may have existed in a different state before. God's spirit hovered over the face of the deep, so it seems God had already created something before Genesis began. You'll have to confirm this from someone well versed in Ancient Hebrew, but I believe the original Genesis text reads "In A beginning" rather than "in THE beginning". Again, that's just something I've heard, so don't take my word for it.

 

[Halbhh]

What if God, within the package of an instantaneous creation of an expanding universe by the spoken word, took the initial six "days", each ions of time, and within his own sovereignty, in a sort of "creation motion", compressed these vast increments of time so that (time within time), events truly happened over millennia of centuries and yet at the same time happened within the measurement of human days? The 7th day: there would no need to be compressed, as the Lord ceased from his works.

I am no science fiction buff, except for having read Asimov's trilogy and the Lord of the Rings. The paragraph above: I just don't see it as fanciful. And, wouldn't it be just like our heavenly Father for his sovereignty to escape the realm of explanation or discovery by humanity so that God may be God in all things?

I am not unsettled if the idea is wrong, and I'm not holding my breath that it is correct. In the interim, I'm more swayed by Old Earth and direct creation of humans via Adam/Eve.

This is another way of recognizing the reality that God is God, not just one of us.

Arguing over small details of creation He chose not to specify to us I think comes from people getting the wrong idea that somehow an aspect of Nature, such as fact that the stars are vastly far way... couldn't be God's work (!?), odd as it sounds.

A fear some seem to have that an aspect of Nature could disprove the Creator of Nature.

So, I've started to realize the believing in a young earth (in a dogmatic way, as if God could not affect time itself) could be about having not enough confidence in God.

They need more faith!

There's a way to gain faith --
Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

By truly listening to Christ Jesus in the gospels, and absorbing every word He says, with true listening, this actually deepens one's faith.

 

[Radagast]

Here's my take on it.

-Evolution requires death, and death was not a part of God's plan for humankind

I don't think there's a Biblical argument against non-human death, though.

Adam and Eve were created from the dust by God, just as he said.

Some theistic evolutionists take that literally, but believe that the animals and plants evolved.

 

[Jermayn]

This is another way of recognizing the reality that God is God, not just one of us.

Arguing over small details of creation He chose not to specify to us I think comes from people getting the wrong idea that somehow an aspect of Nature, such as fact that the stars are vastly far way... couldn't be God's work (!?), odd as it sounds.

A fear some seem to have that an aspect of Nature could disprove the Creator of Nature.

So, I've started to realize the believing in a young earth could be about having not enough confidence in God.

They need more faith!

There's a way to gain faith --
Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

By truly listening to Christ Jesus in the gospels, and absorbing every word He says, with true listening.

I think it takes more faith to believe in a young Earth tbh.

 

[Jermayn]

I don't think there's a Biblical argument against non-human death, though.



Some theistic evolutionists take that literally, but believe that the animals and plants evolved.

Why would God create Man and Woman in one literal day, but take millions of years for the animals to evolve?