Communion

Prosperity · Jan 8, 2006

Ya I agree with that Prosperity but don't you think possible many of these verses about commuion have dual meanings

Not exactly. I think that Jesus told us how to take communion, what the bread and wine actually are to us and what the benefits are from taking communion. As far as dual meaning goes, I think that communion doesn't have many meanings, but has deeper and deeper relations of truth revealed to us as we continue to be transformed into His image.

We are one in Christ, but I find nothing to suggest that breaking the fread had any reference to this particular oness. Jeus said that the bread was representative of his body which was broken for us. The same word might be used several times in the Bible, but is is the context it is used in that counts.

I would say that the more that the body of Christ takes communion and is transformed into His image, that body will work much better.

I'm talking about what it does and how it effects our spiritual consciousness when say having the Lords supper as a real supper, everyone bringing something...[the world think of it like a pot luck] but when everyone brings something you have a sense of oneness....this meal represents us the body....I believe it does have a spiritual effect and I believe that's why the early church did it this way....well...guess that's my humble opinion.... [Bobber]

If that is the way that you choose to take communion, then have at it. The only requirements that I see for communion are:

1. A believing heart that is discerning the blood and body of Christ,
2. A prayer for God's anointing to be on and in the elements
3. Eating the unleavened bread and drinking the wine
4. Giving God thanks.

I see nothing wrong with doing more as long as we've done as Jesus instructed.

Trish1947 · Jan 8, 2006

Zzub said:
This is the best that is going on in the Word of Faith forums at the moment.

Heaven help us.

I have just returned from the most dynamic exciting God filled church weekend I have ever been on...

Will be lurking on the list for the rest of the day while I mark my Year 7 exams and prepare lessons...

Blessings,
|ZZ|

I tend to agree with you.

Sounds so exciting Z..if you have the time, would love to hear about it.

psalms 91 · Jan 8, 2006

Prosperity said:
Would you care to provide scripture to support you thinking?

Since you are aware of communion and I assume you have fully examined it I take it that you know Jesus was sinless, did descend into hell to set the captives free, and was pierced for us I will take your question to mean with the heart. Does not the bible say that God looks at the heart and I believe the other scripture that was provided more than adequately showed that it is the spirit that it is taken in rather than the how. I am not legalistic but I do like matza simply because it is such a beautiful type and shadow of what was done for us.

Prosperity · Jan 8, 2006

The "do this"..is the action of taking of communion. He did not say "use this"..

...and what actions did he perform to communion. "This do..." is plainly stated and easily understood.

Prosperity · Jan 8, 2006

Since you are aware of communion and I assume you have fully examined it I take it that you know Jesus was sinless, did descend into hell to set the captives free, and was pierced for us I will take your question to mean with the heart. Does not the bible say that God looks at the heart and I believe the other scripture that was provided more than adequately showed that it is the spirit that it is taken in rather than the how. I am not legalistic but I do like matza simply because it is such a beautiful type and shadow of what was done for us.

The Bible does not say that God that how you take communion is not important because the only thing that is important is the spirit in which you take it.

How can you take communion in a way that Jesus did not teach and say that you are taking it in the right spirit? Obedience pleases God and is an outward expression of the condition of our shoul and dictates the spirit in which we do all things.

psalms 91 · Jan 8, 2006

Nowhere do I see anything that says I must use just certain things, what I do see is that I must discern the body and blood of Jesus and that I should do this in remembrance

Trish1947 · Jan 8, 2006

Prosperity said:
The "do this"..is the action of taking of communion. He did not say "use this"..

...and what actions did he perform to communion. "This do..." is plainly stated and easily understood.

Take the cup, and eat the bread. You notice that he didn't say drink the fermented wine..He said take this cup. And do this in rememberance of me. How come you feel that grape juice isn't also the fruit of the vine? It certainly doesn't come from oranges. Does alcohol play a part in your thinking?

PastorJoey · Jan 8, 2006

Prosperity said:
It is not just symbolic. Jesus is not vane. He said that the wine and bread were in fact his blood and flesh. I'm certain that Jesus knew what He was saying and did not lie. If all it is to you, is symbolism, to you then you are wasting your time.

Nothing in the Bible supports you contention that you can take communion anyway you choose.

Jesus said to do it with the bread and wine and you say different. Exactly what is your problem with doing it Jesus' way?

I find it interesting that some people will fight me tooth and nail over whether it is leavened bread or unleavened bread and whether it is wine or some other drink and yet call me legalistic simply because I wish to obey the Lord's specific instructions and follow His example when taking communion.

I guess then you believe like the Roman Catholics that the bread and wine become the literal body & blood of Jesus when its in your mouth. Wow!
I believe we should receive communion as Jesus did, but you'll never convince me that He used fermented wine. It is very bull headed to limit any beliefs except your own. I have no prob with anyone who does use fermented wine. It is my conviction not to.
I'm not fighting you on this. You original post was a question. I am simply answering your post.
My feeling is that you didnt not start an innocent post making inquiry. Your questions are cloaked in a statement, we fell for the bait and you sprung the trap.
PJ

psalms 91 · Jan 8, 2006

All I know is I have said all I am going to here. This has been covered and covered again

Prosperity · Jan 8, 2006

Nowhere do I see anything that says I must use just certain things, what I do see is that I must discern the body and blood of Jesus and that I should do this in remembrance

I guess that you don't understand what, "Do this..." means

PastorJoey · Jan 8, 2006

bill16652 said:
I agree but it is nice to do it as Jesus did

Thank you for expressing your agreement. I believe we should do it as did Jesus but I dont see any clear cut rules. We know it was bread & wine (fermented or not I dont see clear proof). Prosperity believes that the elements are the literal body & blood of Jesus which is... well... you know. Only if he is right about this would it be necessary that we were absolutely certain we did it exactly as He did. In fact I would be too worried to take communion at all afraid I understood it wrong. Legalistic is making a law out of something that we believe to be true and shutting down anyone elses beliefs contrary to it. It is making law out of something that God has not. I get my communion bread from the Christian book store and my welch's grape juice from the grocery store. I donty know if the bread is leavened or unleavened & certainly dont know where the grapes were grown or who picked them. To tell me I am wrong in this or unscriptural is legalistic and only the opinion of another.
PJ

Prosperity · Jan 8, 2006

Take the cup, and eat the bread. You notice that he didn't say drink the fermented wine..He said take this cup. And do this in rememberance of me. How come you feel that grape juice isn't also the fruit of the vine? It certainly doesn't come from oranges. Does alcohol play a part in your thinking?

It is accepted by any serious student of the Bible that Jesus was drinking wine. I will let you study this one out on you own, or go back and re-read this whole thread. It has already been addressed.

PastorJoey · Jan 8, 2006

Prosperity said:
I'm not going to go dig it out of all the KCM books and tapes I have. I've heard him teach this more than once, just the way I related it to you. If you think me a liar then write to KCM and ask them to steer you the right direction. I've written to KCM and received responses. Maybe they will help you too.

In the alternative, you just might ask God to show you what I'm talking about. I know that God knows exact what I'm talking about.

If you think I'm a liar, then go tell God on me. It will do us both a lot of good.

Just out of curiosity, haw long have you been into WOF?

Prosperity I dont think you are lying just mistaken. I shuldnt have brought it up anyway. It was cheap and lacked discretion. I apologize. I have followed Copeland and Hagins teachings for over 15 years please give mabye in a new thread quotes supporting your statements.
PJ

PastorJoey · Jan 8, 2006

bill16652 said:
Nowhere do I see anything that says I must use just certain things, what I do see is that I must discern the body and blood of Jesus and that I should do this in remembrance

Amen

KingZzub · Jan 8, 2006

Double Amen from me

Prosperity · Jan 8, 2006

I guess then you believe like the Roman Catholics that the bread and wine become the literal body & blood of Jesus when its in your mouth. Wow!

If you'd acrually read what I've written, you'd know this isn't true.

I believe that there is an inclusion of one substance in another, specifically the blood and body of Christ are in spiritually seeded in the leavened bread and wine communion elements, when the element are blessed in the name of Jesus. The body and blood of Christ are in the same dimension that our spirit-man and Jesus are in, while the actual bread and wine are in what we know as our physical universe. The blood and body of Jesus have the same relationship to the bread and wine as our spirit-man has to our body. When our flesh dies, our spirit-man, complete with our soul, is released from this physical universe. Likewise, when we consume the blessed bread and wine, in faith, Jesus' blood and body are released into our spirit and flesh. Both our spirit and flesh derive Godly benefits form this release.

As I've already said, "What we call communion is the privilege of taking Communion is part of our inheritance. Through faith, we have the privilege of becoming one with Jesus by the eating of His flesh (leavened bread) and drinking of His blood (wine). This is the result of God's grace. You seem to miss the whole point of communion. It is our opportunity to perfect our oneness in Jesus with the Father so that we might become all that He is and gain access to all that He has. This includes the Father, Holy Ghost, eternal live, divine health, prosperity and all manner of God's blessings."

As far as the unleavened bread goes, Marilyn Hickey has a wonderful teaching about why we are to use leavened bread in communion. Consider the following verses and see to see if you might get revelation on this.

I believe we should receive communion as Jesus did, but you'll never convince me that He used fermented wine. It is very bull headed to limit any beliefs except your own. I have no prob with anyone who does use fermented wine. It is my conviction not to.
I'm not fighting you on this. You original post was a question. I am simply answering your post.

I don't have to convince you of anything. If you would just read all of what the Bible has to say about Jesus drinking wine, you would become convinved. Jesus even recommentded wine for a particular health matter. Either you have ears to hear or you don't.

You just seem convinced that if Jesus drank wine that he must have sinned. The Sadducees and Pharisees tried this same legalistic approach to accuse him of the same thing.

Matthew 11:18-19
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Luke 7:33-34
33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

My feeling is that you didnt not start an innocent post making inquiry. Your questions are cloaked in a statement, we fell for the bait and you sprung the trap.
PJ

I guess it is a good think that I don't run my life of judge myself by your feelings. Like I said, if you don't like what I'm saying, go tell god on me. he knows how to chosen His children.

Did you wish to accuse your brother of anything else?

Prosperity · Jan 8, 2006

Prosperity I dont think you are lying just mistaken. I shuldnt have brought it up anyway. It was cheap and lacked discretion. I apologize. I have followed Copeland and Hagins teachings for over 15 years please give mabye in a new thread quotes supporting your statements.
PJ

I've have listened to Kenneth for 26 years. I know exactly what he taught and I faithfully related it to you. Supporting what statements? I told you to send and E-mail to KCM or go read his books and listen to his teaching until you find it. When you do find it you'll have to ask yourself a question. The question is, "Do I want to listen to Kenneth since he did say what Prosperity said or will I now finally admit I was wrong?" I have all confidence as to what Kenneth taught on this subject.

Just to let you know, I had a revelation of this before I even heard it form Kenneth. Kenneth simply confirmed what God had already shown me. Kenneth has confirmed many other revelation that God has given me.

PastorJoey · Jan 8, 2006

Prosperity said:
I guess it is a good think that I don't run my life of judge myself by your feelings. Like I said, if you don't like what I'm saying, go tell god on me. he knows how to chosen His children.

Did you wish to accuse your brother of anything else?

Yes you shuld be concerned at how you are coming across to others, and no I was not accusing you of this. I chose the words "I feel like" so not to come across as judging, but just to let you know the impression you leave me with.
PJ

PastorJoey · Jan 8, 2006

Prosperity said:
I've have listened to Kenneth for 26 years. I know exactly what he taught and I faithfully related it to you. Supporting what statements? I told you to send and E-mail to KCM or go read his books and listen to his teaching until you find it. When you do find it you'll have to ask yourself a question. The question is, "Do I want to listen to Kenneth since he did say what Prosperity said or will I now finally admit I was wrong?" I have all confidence as to what Kenneth taught on this subject.

Just to let you know, I had a revelation of this before I even heard it form Kenneth. Kenneth simply confirmed what God had already shown me. Kenneth has confirmed many other revelation that God has given me.

The burden of proof is on the one making the statements. In your 26 yrs experience in WOF can you not give me just one quote from either of them validating your claims.
PJ

Prosperity · Jan 8, 2006

In my opinion, based on the following scriptures and the comments that I've received on this thread, I would conclude that anyone who would attempt to dissuade me from taking communion just as Jesus took it, (leavened bread and wine) or attempt to impute sin to me for doing so is by scriptural definition being legalistic.

I've formed this opinion while participating on this thread.

Matthew 11:18-19
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Luke 7:33-34
33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

I'll continue to take communion the way Jesus taught and exemplified.

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