Communication

[Created2Write]

It is a negative though to lay 90% of all marriage communication problems on the man. Not to mention it's completely untrue. Well actually given the wrong expectations that have been built, that women's way of communicating is inherently better, it is true, it's just wrong. There are just as many marriage communcation problems caused by the woman's inability to think/speak/communicate factually as there are caused by a man's inability to think/speak/communicate emotionally.

I agree.

 

[Chaplain David]

Actually, I find it interesting that people are finding this "generalization" a negative. It was not said to me in a negative manner, more in a "I am a male and acknowledge and am aware of what can be a shortcoming." This friend of mine is very secure in who he is, who his wife is and how he wants his wife and himself to feel in their relationship - valued, heard and respected. It seems to me that some people are taking this as a personal affront to their man/womanhood. Like most things said by a counselor, you need to take what resonates with you, what makes things clear and leave the rest. I, personally, looking back from a 20 year old marriage, see some merit in this comment but not in a disparaging way. Men and women are meant to mirror to each other and make up the lack in the other. God is amazing in how he built us inside and out. Peace to you all and blessings from Abba

As my downunder friends say, "no worries." It's a good OP.

Reading into it and trying to make it mean something other than what it says is something that can be done but that doesn't make that criticism valid nor does it make an apparent above board motive for starting the thread invalid.

Communication in a marriage and communication in a thread is sometimes difficult, fraught with fingerpointing and misunderstanding. Overpersonalizing responses, using "you statements" rather than "I statements," addressing what appears to be the faults of the other person rather than the subject at hand which is an "issue," and is really the topic, quickly get the discussion at hand bogged down into nonproductive and even destructive communication.

Building each other up rather than tearing each other down are things a Christian strives for. At the heart of Jesus' message and commandments are love: God loved us...John 3:16; Love one another...John 15:12...Love your neighbor...John 22:39.

So these are the directions we are asked to go in our threads, but more importantly in our lives. Although the OP is quoted, these comments are made to the thread.

Thank-you for the OP and God bless.

 

[Cookieboo]

It is a negative though to lay 90% of all marriage communication problems on the man. Not to mention it's completely untrue. Well actually given the wrong expectations that have been built, that women's way of communicating is inherently better, it is true, it's just wrong. There are just as many marriage communcation problems caused by the woman's inability to think/speak/communicate factually as there are caused by a man's inability to think/speak/communicate emotionally.

Hi Chaz If you look back to the op, you will find that there is not a statement that says "that a women's way of communication is inherently better." I do not agree with that at all and have never stated that. Some people may have read that into the op but it was not stated nor intended. I believe that personal responsibility is key in all relationships. The Word says that we are to make straight paths for our own feet, so that those around us who are hurting and in need will not be hindered but healed.

When we look after our own behavior, we inadvertantly affect others - that is what I percieved my friend was saying by his statement but then, preception has much weight doesn't it?

 

[WolfGate]

Cookie - understand nothing in your OP said it was your opinion, rather the opinion of the counselor friend, who pretty clearly did say that a woman's way of communication is inherently better. I see no other way to interpret "if communication is a major issue in a marriage it is almost always the men's fault"

 

[Created2Write]

Cookie - understand nothing in your OP said it was your opinion, rather the opinion of the counselor friend, who pretty clearly did say that a woman's way of communication is inherently better. I see no other way to interpret "if communication is a major issue in a marriage it is almost always the men's fault"

Yup. That's how it appeared to me too.

 

[Cookieboo]

Cookie - understand nothing in your OP said it was your opinion, rather the opinion of the counselor friend, who pretty clearly did say that a woman's way of communication is inherently better. I see no other way to interpret "if communication is a major issue in a marriage it is almost always the men's fault"

Thanks WolfGate, I understand that I asked for the opinion of an opinion. Just clarifying that the statement was not made in the OP.

 

[chaz345]

Hi Chaz If you look back to the op, you will find that there is not a statement that says "that a women's way of communication is inherently better." I do not agree with that at all and have never stated that. Some people may have read that into the op but it was not stated nor intended. I believe that personal responsibility is key in all relationships. The Word says that we are to make straight paths for our own feet, so that those around us who are hurting and in need will not be hindered but healed.

When we look after our own behavior, we inadvertantly affect others - that is what I percieved my friend was saying by his statement but then, preception has much weight doesn't it?

No the OP doesn't say that the women's way of communicating is inherently better, but that as a starting point is the only way that one can come to the conclusion that 90% of all marriage communication problems are the man's responsibility.

And yes I do understand that what was said in the OP was said by someone other than you.

 

[FaithPrevails]

Chaz and Wolf - I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the OP. It says that women are communicators and men are doers. That does not translate at all to saying that women are better at it - it simply says that they prefer to talk about things while men prefer to take action on things.

 

[dallasapple]

I would have to say...with the inclusion of the word "problem" with communicating and that its usually the man..then FURTHER saying that its the way "men communicate as in somehow they are hardwired.then its pretty much not that big of a leap to say that the way MEN communicate is a "problem"..

Now havign said that..its the "men" I see mostly insisitng they are more likely to with ease communicate in this sort of "rigid factual" way..and in relatinships thats not gonna cut it..relationships arent rigid and factual..emotions are weaved into it..It would be too mechanical to try and use "factual data" to explain to another how you feel about them..

Also just a side note..the best poets and playrights.novelists musical composers... philosophers and speech writers.. in the human race have been men..

Dallas

 

[JaneFW]

You don't see "well are you loving her like you should be" advice given to men? You don't see "well he better shape up or you should leave" advice given to women? Because to be totally honest, while I do see occasional advice that lines up with what you say, the bulk of what I see is much more like what I just said.

In any case that's all totally beside the point that different genders are given different advice and that can be based on only one thing, generalities. And for the most part, while maybe not 100% applicable to each and every situation, they are true more often than not and as long as the possibility that it's off base is kept open, there's absolutely nothing wrong or harmful about them. The alternative is that we'd need each and every last possible detail from both people involved before we could begin to offer advice.

Did you see the most recent thread when a man asked a woman if she had caused her husband to have an affair by not giving him oral sex? Nothing wrong or harmful about that, right? Oh my goodness.

And also, there are plenty of times that someone has posted here and people have asked for more information. I usually ask questions even as I'm posting. I can't give generalized advice because it's not going to help.

 

[dallasapple]

I personally/have NEVER told a woman in an advice thread he better "shape up or she should leave"..the only time I have ever told a woman she SHOULD leave is when she was being PHYSICALLY abused..or even a woman that has a husband (sorry Jan) that if she is at risk of cathching a fatal DISEASE from his philandering I wouldnt stay ..if I did I wouldnt be hainvg ANY sex with him.

Separation ..sure im ALL for it if the woman is contemplating it leaning that way..yep..Im for that..

but the words he "better shape up or you shoud divorce him" have never left my lips.

In general I say that..because sorry..its the truth..she will possibly leave(divorce)..and if its been years and years with no bother of trying to do anything about the issues..the bridge may be already burned down once she physically walks out.

Dallas

 

[Conservativation]

Chaz and Wolf - I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the OP. It says that women are communicators and men are doers. That does not translate at all to saying that women are better at it - it simply says that they prefer to talk about things while men prefer to take action on things.

OP

"""He told me that if communication is a major issue in a marriage it is almost always the men's fault since women are hardwired to be communicators and men are doers""""

 

[WolfGate]

Chaz and Wolf - I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the OP. It says that women are communicators and men are doers. That does not translate at all to saying that women are better at it - it simply says that they prefer to talk about things while men prefer to take action on things.

Respectfully as well, I cannot reconcile the idea that if communication is a problem it's the men's fault with there not being a judgment that women are better communicators then men. I realize it was not explicitely stated that way - but it's so implicit that I am failing to see any other conclusion of the counselor.

"Fault" indicates to fix the issue men need to change what they are doing. And you wouldn't change to something worse, would you?

 

[dallasapple]

Respectfully as well, I cannot reconcile the idea that if communication is a problem it's the men's fault with there not being a judgment that women are better communicators then men. I realize it was not explicitely stated that way - but it's so implicit that I am failing to see any other conclusion of the counselor.

"Fault" indicates to fix the issue men need to change what they are doing. And you wouldn't change to something worse, would you?

Right..fault would indicate there is something wrong and there is someone to blame for it.

The problem is if you go with the sterotype its even worse..that men in a nutshell are "defective" inherently in the area of communication..they are "doomed in a sense to be at "fault in comminication issues in their marriage and need to be taught somehow to learn how to go against their 'grain" in order to have succesful communication ..

Dallas

 

[Conservativation]

Right..fault would indicate there is something wrong and there is someone to blame for it.

The problem is if you go with the sterotype its even worse..that men in a nutshell are "defective" inherently in the area of communication..they are "doomed in a sense to be at "fault in comminication issues in their marriage and need to be taught somehow to learn how to go against their 'grain" in order to have succesful communication ..

Dallas

Check generalization vs stereotype

They are not the same thing

The op didnt make a flawed generality claim at all, they stated something exactly true about men....the generality they used is dead on, I own it, all men i know own it...its true.

the problem is it has nothing to do with communication quality, it has to do with communication MODE. Mens MODE is different, not worse or better.

Amazing that such basic things upset so many people. I frankly dont think people really even understand whats being said at all, based on the objections.....but i also frankly care slightly less than ZERO whether they do or not.

For me, my statements to to OP have been made, I dont care that the counselor blamed men frankly. I care about the believe set that led him/her to blame men. Heck if I bought current teaching Id blame men too, because the observations about men and emotional communication are dead on correct in most men (which doesnt mean dallas husband, I dont know him and since he isnt here talking i dont care either, nor should we) the problem is the way men do communicate is seen as defective, and thats the problem, we do do it that way, but there isnt anything wrong with it. So....the stereotype/generality is 100% true, and 100% poorly represented as having a negative effect on the communication.

Once again, some guys here are saying something akin to things being 50/50, to my mind the most fair and unthreatening position that can be taken, and are facing fixed bayonets over it.

best get the forum area on what it works....."my favorite brand of whipped cream cheese"....and so forth

 

[Created2Write]

I agree with chaz and Wolf. If the OP's councilor was not intending to place blame on men for bad communication, then he shouldn't have said that bad communication is the man's fault. Plain and simple.

 

[chaz345]

Did you see the most recent thread when a man asked a woman if she had caused her husband to have an affair by not giving him oral sex? Nothing wrong or harmful about that, right? Oh my goodness.

And also, there are plenty of times that someone has posted here and people have asked for more information. I usually ask questions even as I'm posting. I can't give generalized advice because it's not going to help.

Never said that such advice wasn't bad, just that it isn't the majority of what people say and offer as advice. It's a fringe case.

 

[Conservativation]

Never said that such advice wasn't bad, just that it isn't the majority of what people say and offer as advice. It's a fringe case.

Its actually only ONE MAN, who has returned under numerous ID's. All the shocking examples she gave came from that ONE GUY....seriously, ONLY ONE. Either she doesnt get that, or, his silly posts are just too tempting of low hanging fruit to exploit

 

[FaithPrevails]

Respectfully as well, I cannot reconcile the idea that if communication is a problem it's the men's fault with there not being a judgment that women are better communicators then men. I realize it was not explicitely stated that way - but it's so implicit that I am failing to see any other conclusion of the counselor.

"Fault" indicates to fix the issue men need to change what they are doing. And you wouldn't change to something worse, would you?

It was the counselor's conclusion, though - not the OP's. She simply asked what others thought of his statement. That's a pretty neutral stance on her part, IMO. She neither agreed nor disagreed with his statement.

 

[FaithPrevails]

OP

"""He told me that if communication is a major issue in a marriage it is almost always the men's fault since women are hardwired to be communicators and men are doers""""

The only "blame" I see being assigned there is that men prefer to do over communicate. It still does not speak to what kind of communicators they are or how effective/ineffective they are. *shrugs*