Communication

[Cookieboo]

I recently talked to a friend of mine who is a marriage counselor. He told me that if communication is a major issue in a marriage it is almost always the men's fault since women are hardwired to be communicators and men are doers. He told me that even in his own marriage, he has to consiciously decide to be a communicator even after over 20 years of marriage. What do you people think?

 

[illudium_phosdex]

I'm not entirely sure saying it's the man's "fault" is the proper wording. We have different ways of communicating.

I know that in my own marriage, the house could be falling apart and my husband is laying around flipping channels on the TV. I'll go in and say to him something to the effect of, "Can't you go do something productive?" What I mean is, "Hey, the dishes are piled up, the laundry is piled up, the floors need vacuuming, could you give me a hand with some of this?" What he hears is, "You're just laying there being a slob. Get up and do something, anything." And he does. He'll go out and check the air pressure on the tires.

I know that if it were my best friend (who is female) I could say the exact same thing and she'd be getting up soon to take care of one of the tasks in the house but he needs to be told exactly what to do. He doesn't think like I do. He's told me this. And I still end up speaking in femaleze because that's what I'm used to. If I went in and told him, "Hey, I just picked up everything on the living room floor. Will you vacuum it so I can get these dishes done," he'll do it 99% of the time. It's just hard when you're wired to communicate one way to do it a different way even when you know.

There's also the issue of the silent treatment. I know I'm much more likely to engage in this really unfair "punishment". I know that a few of my female friends do this as well. We all know it's wrong but again, it goes back to that hard wiring. It's like, "If he's not going to listen, then I'm just not going to talk to him." And it's not that he's not listening, he just hears things differently. Like in my example with the household chores and he goes and checks the tires.

I also know, that I've had to start saying when I'm on one of my vent sessions before I start, "Look, I don't want a solution. I just want to vent right now." I know that he's really not the best person to vent to but sometimes he's the only one available. If I don't let him know right off the bat that I don't want a solution, he's going to give me one and normally, I'm going to get irritated.

Anyway, I know this was long but I'm just saying that there's no one's fault when it comes to communication in a marriage. It runs both ways.

 

[Romanseight2005]

I recently talked to a friend of mine who is a marriage counselor. He told me that if communication is a major issue in a marriage it is almost always the men's fault since women are hardwired to be communicators and men are doers. He told me that even in his own marriage, he has to consiciously decide to be a communicator even after over 20 years of marriage. What do you people think?

I completely disagree with this. I know too many men who are major yackers, and many women who are really shy and frankly, afraid of expressing their true feelings. Now where the fault actually lies, can be different in each situation.

 

[JaneFW]

I only have male children, so I don't know whether this is the norm with girls also (I'm too old to remember being a child!), but I always had to tell my boys to clean their bedroom, and say "by clean your bedroom, I mean ..." and I would list make your bed, put up your books, etc etc. My boys want to hear it spelled out, and only one thing at a time. If I give them a list of things to do, they get confused, whereas I like a list and will work through it one by one. Not to say I'm superior, just different.

I actually have a class on business and professional communication this semester, so I'm hoping that I personally learn some better communication skills!!

Both my h and I are good communicators. We both like to talk and be heard and understood and appreciated.

I don't think that any area of marriage is "almost always the man's fault" - and you are going to get some men here come down pretty hard on that comment, btw. Perhaps a husband and wife just need to get on each others' communication channel?

 

[suzybeezy]

My husband grew up in a home where he was told to sit down and shut up on a regular basis, their philosophy being children were to be seen not heard. To this day, my husband is a very quiet person. He barely utters many words in a day - and that's no exaggeration.

Communication is probably out biggest issue cause its hard to work through an issue when you can't get the other person to speak! The plus for me is I tend to get my way cause he rarely will voice his opinions, but it does get frustrating. Its definitely taking some adapting on my part to learn how to function with a spouse who's so quiet.

Having 4 children (3 boys, 1 girl), I'm made sure I've taught all of them how to articulate themselves well, so they are all great communicators.

I don't think its a male/female thing, I think its an upbringing thing. We are taught by our parents how to communicate, and if they're deficient in teaching that, its hard to learn as an adult.

 

[Cookieboo]

Communication: is the activity of conveying meaningful information. Communication requires a sender, a message, and an intended recipient, although the receiver need not be present or aware of the sender's intent to communicate at the time of communication; thus communication can occur across vast distances in time and space. Communication requires that the communicating parties share an area of communicative commonality. The communication process is complete once the receiver has understood the message of the sender.

By communication, my friend means really being heard and understood - it's not about someone's ability to yack or telling your hubby to pick up or clean.
It about mutual validation. That is what I meant by saying "if communication is a problem." It's not just about the art of talking, it's about the art of truly hearing, truly listening and truly being understood.

 

[Cookieboo]

And, of course, it is the art of truly conveying your feelings and needs

 

[JaneFW]

Communication: is the activity of conveying meaningful information. Communication requires a sender, a message, and an intended recipient, although the receiver need not be present or aware of the sender's intent to communicate at the time of communication; thus communication can occur across vast distances in time and space. Communication requires that the communicating parties share an area of communicative commonality. The communication process is complete once the receiver has understood the message of the sender.

Now that sounds like my textbook for my communication class, lol, which speaking of which .. I should be working on my assignments ...

 

[Romanseight2005]

Communication: is the activity of conveying meaningful information. Communication requires a sender, a message, and an intended recipient, although the receiver need not be present or aware of the sender's intent to communicate at the time of communication; thus communication can occur across vast distances in time and space. Communication requires that the communicating parties share an area of communicative commonality. The communication process is complete once the receiver has understood the message of the sender.

By communication, my friend means really being heard and understood - it's not about someone's ability to yack or telling your hubby to pick up or clean.
It about mutual validation. That is what I meant by saying "if communication is a problem." It's not just about the art of talking, it's about the art of truly hearing, truly listening and truly being understood.

Okay, then by this definition, it really can't be one person's fault at all, because it would also have to be about the receiver's ability to listen, or understand, in addition to, the sender's ability to clearly articulate meaning.

I have found that there are many different processing styles for people. Therefore, the sender needs to make sure that he/she is not inly using words that the hearer can understand, but also that he/she has time to process.

It sounds like that counselor kind of over simplified things maybe.

 

[Conservativation]

The idea that men cant communicate and women can is easily demonstrably absurd. And I liked that you pointed out its not about who "yaks" more.....so that we dont get derailed about the fact that differences exist...they do, in terms of how people communicate.

Or lets put it this way...I BELIEVE that differences exist, you seem to believe that they exist, and thats a framework for the topic, so if folks want to pop in and talk about how they know a man that communicates this way and that there are no differences in how the genders communicate maybe they could start a different thread.

Men communicate just fine. Its more than just being understood, its also incumbent to send a coherent and UNAMBIGUOUS message. Thats what men want and need.

In that example..."honey, you mind doing the dishs, then fixing the broken shutter"...will get 10 times the results of "you mind doing something more productive than laying there". It doesnt matter that the girlfriend would "know" and jump to action. Its being direct, as an act of being perceptive and considerate.

The teaching about men being poor communicators is toxic, because if good communication is only defined as "how women do it"....then there is NO HOPE of there ever being good communication.

teaching both sides how the other does it, weighting those modes equally in terms of good/bad...just different, and explaining there are times to skew more one way and times to skew more the other way....THAT closes the gap and works.

sadly most teaching is to say "men dont get it" and proceed to try and make women out of men. Thats a recipe for failure

 

[Cookieboo]

Good post Conservativation

 

[Chaplain David]

I recently talked to a friend of mine who is a marriage counselor. He told me that if communication is a major issue in a marriage it is almost always the men's fault since women are hardwired to be communicators and men are doers. He told me that even in his own marriage, he has to consiciously decide to be a communicator even after over 20 years of marriage. What do you people think?

Hello Everyone,

Men and women communicate differently in many cases. In my experience working with couples the main thing isn't so much who talks the most as whether or not one is being understood (or trying to understand). It is important both to really "hear" what the other one is saying and to also be heard ourselves. Zipping right through the problems of communication to one of the primary things that result from good communication is the willingness to both be attentive to and try to grasp what the other is saying. When that becomes a high priority communication often fares better.

Sometimes changes need to be made and except in cases of abuse or mental illness change is usually necessary for both communicators.

When we only have our eyes on ourselves, on what we want, what we need, what slights we've experienced and do not give equal attention to what the other party's needs are, communication is fairly one way and little is accomplished.

There is an old book that my wife and I read some time ago. It is secular but still contains what we both think is very appropriatie, and so true we laughed together at many parts in the book because we could relate. The book is titled, "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus."

A lot can be said about marriage and communication but first and foremost it is important to remember that we "chose" that person. Second I believe would be that we also made promises to each other. Sometimes these facts get lost and re-remembering them is very helpful.

God bless.

 

[Conservativation]

Hello Everyone,

Men and women communicate differently in many cases. In my experience working with couples the main thing isn't so much who talks the most as whether or not one is being understood (or trying to understand). It is important both to really "hear" what the other one is saying and to also be heard ourselves. Zipping right through the problems of communication to one of the primary things that result from good communication is the willingness to both be attentive to and try to grasp what the other is saying. When that becomes a high priority communication often fares better.

Sometimes changes need to be made and except in cases of abuse or mental illness change is usually necessary for both communicators.

When we only have our eyes on ourselves, on what we want, what we need, what slights we've experienced and do not give equal attention to what the other party's needs are, communication is fairly one way and little is accomplished.

There is an old book that my wife and I read some time ago. It is secular but still contains what we both think is very appropriatie, and so true we laughed together at many parts in the book because we could relate. The book is titled, "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus."

A lot can be said about marriage and communication but first and foremost it is important to remember that we "chose" that person. Second I believe would be that we also made promises to each other. Sometimes these facts get lost and re-remembering them is very helpful.

God bless.

I would slightly disagree, split hairs...maybe....nevertheless....to talk of the person trying to listen and understand being paramount is sort of the conventional wisdom that Im saying can create so many problems. The speaker should share the burden, and if they can adjust their manner of speaking to accommodate the listener just a little it goes a long way.

See the conventional wisdom is the men are bad listeners, we just "dont get it"....yet men have designed and built the most complicated things, computers and space stations and robots and such, and these are PRECISE things. A communication issue would definitely show up. The do fine....ruthless efficiency, to borrow from Monty Python....well, why not keep that in mind a little, respect it as a valid and useful and equally legit mode of communication, and put half the pressure on the speaker and the other half on the listener....thats REAL communication across genre and gender

 

[dallasapple]

I dont know..all I know is lately I've just started talking to my husband real slow and at a volume slightly above normal( not yelling just louder than I would talk to other people)..kind of like how I talk to my 3 year old granchild ...and he seems to be picking up a lot more that way..

Dallas

 

[Romanseight2005]

I dont know..all I know is lately I've just started talking to my husband real slow and at a volume slightly above normal( not yelling just louder than I would talk to other people)..kind of like how I talk to my 3 year old granchild ...and he seems to be picking up a lot more that way..

Dallas

 

[JaneFW]

Okay, then by this definition, it really can't be one person's fault at all, because it would also have to be about the receiver's ability to listen, or understand, in addition to, the sender's ability to clearly articulate meaning.

I have found that there are many different processing styles for people. Therefore, the sender needs to make sure that he/she is not inly using words that the hearer can understand, but also that he/she has time to process.

It sounds like that counselor kind of over simplified things maybe.

As I have learned this evening with my textbook, there are many different aspects to communication, including sender and receiver (husband and wife), the message, the context, the medium, feedback, internal and external noise.

My husband and I have often had difficult communication. Firstly, we are from different countries/cultures, even though we have a (mostly) common language, but there are always idiosyncrasies of dialect and accent. Then there is his deafness, which can be acute, depending upon circumstances surrounding us. And then there is the internal and external noise - which is something that plagues us all. When my husband is frowning at me, I am less likely to want to receive his message! When everything is equal and/or he is smiling, then I am ready to hear it - with bells on!!

I don't believe that there are huge differences between us (men and women), it can be a case of "learning" each other. As an example - an extreme one, I know - because of his deafness, my husband lip reads, and it takes him a little while to "learn" how a new person speaks. Many people don't want to be bothered to take the time to be "learned", and so they don't get to really know my husband, which is their loss. I think that "learning" each other is very important in any medium, even for people with normal hearing. It takes a few years at least ??? (not sure) for a husband and wife to learn how to speak to/understand each other. Maybe! I don't know. But there is a difference between the heady days of courtship when every word was hung onto, to the often humdrum of married life, when the last thing you want to talk about is another darn bill!

 

[JaneFW]

I dont know..all I know is lately I've just started talking to my husband real slow and at a volume slightly above normal( not yelling just louder than I would talk to other people)..kind of like how I talk to my 3 year old granchild ...and he seems to be picking up a lot more that way..

Dallas

Get his ears tested!!!!

 

[Romanseight2005]

As I have learned this evening with my textbook, there are many different aspects to communication, including sender and receiver (husband and wife), the message, the context, the medium, feedback, internal and external noise.

My husband and I have often had difficult communication. Firstly, we are from different countries/cultures, even though we have a (mostly) common language, but there are always idiosyncrasies of dialect and accent. Then there is his deafness, which can be acute, depending upon circumstances surrounding us. And then there is the internal and external noise - which is something that plagues us all. When my husband is frowning at me, I am less likely to want to receive his message! When everything is equal and/or he is smiling, then I am ready to hear it - with bells on!!

I don't believe that there are huge differences between us (men and women), it can be a case of "learning" each other. As an example - an extreme one, I know - because of his deafness, my husband lip reads, and it takes him a little while to "learn" how a new person speaks. Many people don't want to be bothered to take the time to be "learned", and so they don't get to really know my husband, which is their loss. I think that "learning" each other is very important in any medium, even for people with normal hearing. It takes a few years at least ??? (not sure) for a husband and wife to learn how to speak to/understand each other. Maybe! I don't know. But there is a difference between the heady days of courtship when every word was hung onto, to the often humdrum of married life, when the last thing you want to talk about is another darn bill!

 

[Speculative]

The idea that men cant communicate and women can is easily demonstrably absurd. And I liked that you pointed out its not about who "yaks" more.....so that we dont get derailed about the fact that differences exist...they do, in terms of how people communicate.

Or lets put it this way...I BELIEVE that differences exist, you seem to believe that they exist, and thats a framework for the topic, so if folks want to pop in and talk about how they know a man that communicates this way and that there are no differences in how the genders communicate maybe they could start a different thread.

Men communicate just fine. Its more than just being understood, its also incumbent to send a coherent and UNAMBIGUOUS message. Thats what men want and need.

In that example..."honey, you mind doing the dishs, then fixing the broken shutter"...will get 10 times the results of "you mind doing something more productive than laying there". It doesnt matter that the girlfriend would "know" and jump to action. Its being direct, as an act of being perceptive and considerate.

The teaching about men being poor communicators is toxic, because if good communication is only defined as "how women do it"....then there is NO HOPE of there ever being good communication.

teaching both sides how the other does it, weighting those modes equally in terms of good/bad...just different, and explaining there are times to skew more one way and times to skew more the other way....THAT closes the gap and works.

sadly most teaching is to say "men dont get it" and proceed to try and make women out of men. Thats a recipe for failure

Excellent. I couldn't have said it any better than this.

 

[dallasapple]

Well..since my husband is the one that speaks in code..Ive requested that from now on he needs to put it in writing..so when the misunderstanding happens I pull out the "evidence" (the words in writing) then I pull out the dictionary and remind him I go by the "definition" of what words mean..then I put those words to further meaning (context) the way they are arranged in the sentence.

If he meant something different I have proven thats not my reponsiblility.Its not that Im not listening..its I dont know when hes playing the 'opposite game" or when Im supposed to "read between the lines" or when Im supposed to go litteral.its also very difficult when he says one thing and in the same sentence or paragraph completely contradicts..so saying two sperate things at once...so I thought I could start at base one and let him know ahead of time Im going "litteral'..actually using the definition of "words".. thats a good start at least.

Dallas