Communication, again

[LovebirdsFlying]

It's kind of like, same song, next verse. This goes on so often. We keep having forms of the same conversation, over and over. Usually I'll ask a question, and Hubby tries to address what he thinks I "really meant" by that, rather than answering the question I actually asked. I don't know. Maybe somebody from his past expected him to read her mind, and when she said X, she really meant Y, but I don't play that game. I don't drop hints. What I say, I want him to take at face value. Then when I try to clarify, he'll get annoyed and say he already answered me. While it didn't end in annoyance this morning, my question never did get answered either.

The setup is, I have physical disabilities and cannot do as much housework as I'd like to do. Yesterday and today, back pain has been very high, and it's hard for me to do much of anything. What I didn't know before, but do now, is that Hubby also has back pain. In his adolescence he was treated for scoliosis--that I knew--but I didn't know he still has problems sometimes, because he hides it. On occasion he can't control the slight groan, and it takes him a second or two to be able to straighten up from bending over. I noticed that and asked him about it, and he admitted to me he has pain but doesn't talk about it as much as I talk about mine. Frankly, I think that's a little bit foolish. I talk about it not to kvetch but to give information and solve the problem; if something can't be done one way because the pain is too great, maybe there's another way it can be done. If I don't know he's having a problem, how can I help him solve it? (It's established already that he can be a bit of a martyr sometimes.)

So this morning, the dishwasher needed emptying. With the pain so bad, I knew I'd have trouble bending over to get the bottom rack. Sometimes he does too, but other times he's OK with it. I asked, if I empty the top rack, can he get the bottom? Or will it hurt him to bend over also?

His response: "Well, it has to be done."
"Right. But I'm just wanting to know if it will hurt you to do it."
"Like I said, it has to be done."

I suppose he thinks what I'm really asking is, would he please empty the bottom rack of the dishwasher? But I didn't ask, WOULD he? I asked, CAN he? And I specifically asked if it would cause pain, and he never answered that part. Does that mean it would, and he doesn't want me to know? This is exactly why I don't deal in subtleties and unspoken statements myself. I don't understand them.

Any feedback?

 

[mkgal1]

For something specifically like that---can you think of an alternative solution? What I mean is.....if he replied with, "yes....my back would hurt too much right now for me to lean down to empty the bottom rack".....what would be some of your solutions? Maybe if you offered that as your response?

 

[ValleyGal]

It sounds to me like he expects you to "read into" his answers the same way he expects you to read into his... so you could try asking him what he "really meant" when he said (insert his comment).

 

[Josie Adams]

I hope you don't mind I've prayed over your situation for you. God bless you and your marriage!

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

For something specifically like that---can you think of an alternative solution? What I mean is.....if he replied with, "yes....my back would hurt too much right now for me to lean down to empty the bottom rack".....what would be some of your solutions? Maybe if you offered that as your response?

Since both of us would be in pain at that stage, we could compromise by each of us emptying part of the bottom rack. Sometimes we can team up and get a task done that neither one of us were up to doing by ourselves. I just need to know when he's not feeling up to it, so we can think of other solutions besides him doing it alone and me not knowing he maybe is hurting just as bad as I am. Or we could wait for my daughter or nephew to cover it, as they were both still asleep at this point. I think I get what you're saying. Start proposing solutions if I suspect he's hiding pain?

It sounds to me like he expects you to "read into" his answers the same way he expects you to read into his... so you could try asking him what he "really meant" when he said (insert his comment).

LOL, I can predict that his response will be, "I meant just what I said," because I don't think he knows he's evading questions. What he thinks is going on is that he answered my question, but I didn't like his answer, so I'm just going to keep asking, hoping he'll change it and give me the answer I want. What actually is happening is that I ask him a question, and he answers a related one, but not the one I asked.

I've discovered that in some cases it can be a matter of timing. Especially if his mind is on other things, there's no mental space in there to process my clarification. He hears me talking, but to him it sounds like changing the wording slightly to say the same thing I said before, and he feels like, "I already answered that." But if I wait, I may later be able to ask word for word the same question I asked in the first place, and he gets it, and gives me a direct answer. At that stage, I've decided to refrain from pointing out, that's what I wanted to know all along, and why didn't he just answer me the first time? Because the answer to *that* question is most likely, because he didn't understand me the first time. He may not even remember that I asked him before, because he didn't comprehend it at the time.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

LBF - here's something I noticed from the OP:

What you were experiencing - "So this morning, the dishwasher needed emptying. With the pain so bad, I knew I'd have trouble bending over to get the bottom rack."

What you said to him - "if I empty the top rack, can he get the bottom? Or will it hurt him to bend over also?"

So, you weren't expressing what you really needed (i.e. "my back pain is bad and I know I will have trouble bending over. Can you do the dishwasher?"). It was framed another way. Perhaps Mike was answering to your need as opposed to the question you asked.

The simplest thing (I think) is just to express a need. Perhaps the response would have been different?

 

[.chrys.]

So this morning, the dishwasher needed emptying. With the pain so bad, I knew I'd have trouble bending over to get the bottom rack. Sometimes he does too, but other times he's OK with it. I asked, if I empty the top rack, can he get the bottom? Or will it hurt him to bend over also?

His response: "Well, it has to be done."
"Right. But I'm just wanting to know if it will hurt you to do it."
"Like I said, it has to be done."

In my marriage, the thought process would be:

Me: "Can you get the bottom?"
Husband: Of course I CAN get the bottom. Even if I'm in a little or a lot of pain, I CAN get the bottom. It has to be done by someone, so why not me? I'll do it. No need to whine about the pain. Just live through it...so, "Well, it has to be done."
Me: "Right. But I'm just wanting to know if it will hurt you to do it."
Husband: I'm a man. I'll deal with it. To explain to you my pain is to complain about myself and to admit I have weaknesses. There's nothing you can do about the pain. Nothing. It's not a discussion I want to have and this is all too much about just getting the dishwasher emptied. Empty it. "Like I said, it has to be done."

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Sometimes I do think I'm being direct and to the point, and it turns out later, I wasn't. I could have said it more directly, but I didn't know that at the time. That's why I started this thread. He's cutting to what he thinks is the chase, when a lot of the time, it's a different chase.

He already knew I was having a bad pain day, as I'd given him that information earlier. Maybe he figured he wasn't hurting as badly as I was. My problem is that sometimes he'll do something, and then tell me later how much it hurt him. "I have pain too. I just don't talk about it." But if he'd told me at the time, we could have found another way to get it done.

What about when I offer to do something, and he says no thank you, he'll cover it, and then later he's annoyed because I didn't do it and he "had" to? That happened last night. It was cooking a meal for himself. He works second shift hours, is never home before 10:30 at the earliest, and the rest of us had already eaten. Earlier when he'd called on his lunch break, I asked him if there was anything in particular he wanted me to cook for him. He said no thank you, he'll worry about it. Then when he came home, he started getting out ingredients, and again I offered to cook it for him. Again he said no, thank you. Then the meal boiled over. As he's cleaning the stove afterward (with my assistance) he grumbled half under his breath that he's tired of having to work all day, and then come home and cook. (He normally enjoys cooking.)

I reminded him that I'd offered twice.

"Well, you looked like you were busy."

I was trimming my fingernails. Nothing that couldn't have waited. I told him if I offer, and he refuses, he doesn't get to complain later because I didn't do it. No fair. He agreed, conceding that I did ask, and he did turn it down.

So, should I: Cook for him automatically, without asking, knowing that usually he likes to cook? Take a chance that if he doesn't like it that way, he won't eat it, and he'll end up cooking something else for himself anyway? Go ahead and do what I offered to do, even though he said no thank you? Figure that when he says no, he means yes? And that brings it right back to what confuses me in the first place, people speaking in code and saying X when they mean Y.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

ADDENDUM:

The tactic I just tried worked beautifully. It's 11:00 AM here. We tend to eat brunch rather than breakfast, because of his work hours. My pain level is much better today, although I shouldn't overdo. Instead of asking him if he wanted me to cook, or what he wanted to eat, I specifically zeroed in on, "Would you like some scrambled eggs and hash browns?"

"Uh..... yeah. That sounds good."

His only request was that I wait a half hour before cooking it, so he'll have time to have a shower and then sit down to a piping hot meal. So that's a half hour to post this, and enjoy a steaming hot cup of coffee.

 

[Inkachu]

It's kind of like, same song, next verse. This goes on so often. We keep having forms of the same conversation, over and over. Usually I'll ask a question, and Mike tries to address what he thinks I "really meant" by that, rather than answering the question I actually asked. I don't know. Maybe somebody from his past expected him to read her mind, and when she said X, she really meant Y, but I don't play that game. I don't drop hints. What I say, I want him to take at face value. Then when I try to clarify, he'll get annoyed and say he already answered me. While it didn't end in annoyance this morning, my question never did get answered either.

The setup is, I have physical disabilities and cannot do as much housework as I'd like to do. Yesterday and today, back pain has been very high, and it's hard for me to do much of anything. What I didn't know before, but do now, is that Mike also has back pain. In his adolescence he was treated for scoliosis--that I knew--but I didn't know he still has problems sometimes, because he hides it. On occasion he can't control the slight groan, and it takes him a second or two to be able to straighten up from bending over. I noticed that and asked him about it, and he admitted to me he has pain but doesn't talk about it as much as I talk about mine. Frankly, I think that's a little bit foolish. I talk about it not to kvetch but to give information and solve the problem; if something can't be done one way because the pain is too great, maybe there's another way it can be done. If I don't know he's having a problem, how can I help him solve it? (It's established already that he can be a bit of a martyr sometimes.)

So this morning, the dishwasher needed emptying. With the pain so bad, I knew I'd have trouble bending over to get the bottom rack. Sometimes he does too, but other times he's OK with it. I asked, if I empty the top rack, can he get the bottom? Or will it hurt him to bend over also?

His response: "Well, it has to be done."
"Right. But I'm just wanting to know if it will hurt you to do it."
"Like I said, it has to be done."

I suppose he thinks what I'm really asking is, would he please empty the bottom rack of the dishwasher? But I didn't ask, WOULD he? I asked, CAN he? And I specifically asked if it would cause pain, and he never answered that part. Does that mean it would, and he doesn't want me to know? This is exactly why I don't deal in subtleties and unspoken statements myself. I don't understand them.

Any feedback?

That would be SO irritating. I'd probably say something like "Does your darn back hurt or not?" Yeah. I don't suffer idiocy very well. If he'd said that his back DID hurt, I probably would have done my best to do it myself, but with a non-answer like that... ugh... how annoying!

*types a long rant and then deletes it lol*

 

[Inkachu]

LBF - here's something I noticed from the OP:

What you were experiencing - "So this morning, the dishwasher needed emptying. With the pain so bad, I knew I'd have trouble bending over to get the bottom rack."

What you said to him - "if I empty the top rack, can he get the bottom? Or will it hurt him to bend over also?"

So, you weren't expressing what you really needed (i.e. "my back pain is bad and I know I will have trouble bending over. Can you do the dishwasher?"). It was framed another way. Perhaps Mike was answering to your need as opposed to the question you asked.

The simplest thing (I think) is just to express a need. Perhaps the response would have been different?

This is a good point.

 

[Inkachu]

ADDENDUM:

The tactic I just tried worked beautifully. It's 11:00 AM here. We tend to eat brunch rather than breakfast, because of his work hours. My pain level is much better today, although I shouldn't overdo. Instead of asking him if he wanted me to cook, or what he wanted to eat, I specifically zeroed in on, "Would you like some scrambled eggs and hash browns?"

"Uh..... yeah. That sounds good."

His only request was that I wait a half hour before cooking it, so he'll have time to have a shower and then sit down to a piping hot meal. So that's a half hour to post this, and enjoy a steaming hot cup of coffee.

I'm glad! Maybe you just need to be as direct as possible with your dear, darling, precious husband. With the dishwasher scenario, you might say something like "Are you able to reach the bottom rack?" and just leave it at that. If he's truly unable, hopefully he'd tell you.

 

[.chrys.]

Would you like some scrambled eggs and hash browns? is sort of an indirect question if you really meant to ask, Would you like to eat some scrambled eggs and hash browns if I cook them for you this morning before you go to work?

I know that sounds a bit nit-picky, but to be fair, if you're looking for a direct answer, you need to supply a direct question.